HMR v/s Mach2

Nick_T

Nick_T

New member
Is the 17Mach2 any less damaging on squirrel sized game than the 17HMR? I'm debating on whether to get a .22 for squirrels or a Mach2, I have an HMR and it is total devistation on those little critters, and if you miss the head, all you have left is hind quarters. My kid (5yr. old) killed his second fox squirrel this week, and I took one also, but now I can't talk him out of his gun. Guess I'm going to have to bite the bullet and get my own if I'm going to join in the fun.

Just weighing my options.

Thanks,

Nick T
 
Nick, in all honesty, unless you're going to shoot "other" vermin at ranges of 100 yards or so, I'd just go with the good 'ole .22LR. Lots cheaper to shoot, and many more options in firearms available. A good old Ruger 10/22 is hard to beat for the money, and you have numerous bullet variations available to control the "splatter" factor.

Unless, of course, you just want the M2... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif
 
Neither the 17HMr nor the 17M2 were designed to be "meat" squirrel guns. They were designed to blow that stuff up. And that's how they're marketed. Why else would you use "TNT" as the name for the bullet and then also use a picture of dynomite on the front of the box? And the Vmax bullet is marketed as "explosive on varmints" and touts a thin jacket and polymer tip that aids in rapid expansion. Mucho splat factor. Get the idea?

Now, get out there and blow that stuff up! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif
 
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Thanks for the responces guys! Pretty much what I figured, and gives the excuse to get another gun. I saw a left hand bolt gun, think it was a savage, or maybe a stevens, clip fed, that I think I'll take a good look at. I knew that the HMR would just about cut one in half, didn't know if the Mach2 might have been a little more meat kinder, and seeing how there isn't anything else around here that I would use the Mach2 on, well maybe a crow but I got the HMR for that task, so guess a .22 LR is the way to go.

Thanks again.
 
Just purchased a 17 mach2 and was very disappointed. Shot three different small animals with it and had all three limp away. I put the rifle away. You can hang any name on it you want and its just not enough gun/bullet. It might be O.K. for chipmunks but calling it a "nitro glycerine special" dont make it blow things up. I considered it reasonable to believe that being only 400 FPS slower than the 17 HMR {which works fine for me} with the same bullet should at least make it a killer of small game. There must be a fine line it is just under, in spite of its favorable ballistics to other rimfires. It is extremely accurate and nice to watch the bullet impact in the scope. It also doesn't flash enough when fired to bloom up the tube on 3rd gen night vision. I think I will stick to the T.V. commercial and use it on targets and eggs. An egg cant limp away.
 
ive had good luck w/ my HMR with the 20gr. xtp's for squirrel hunting. just be patient, and pick shots carefully.

just my observations /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif
 
I would have to agree on the .22 lr as it will kill any squirrel I have seen and it is way cheaper to shoot!
 
Isn't it funny how you've got one guy who says the HM2 isn't enough everything just limps away. But you've got others saying that 22lr is plenty.
 
I can assure you there is nothing funny about buying an almost $500.00 T/c R-55 in mach2 only to see every animal shot limp away. Couple that with the fact that although T/C advertises {and I bought 2 at 30.00 more dollars each} a ten round magazine for the mach 2 only the five rounder will work. Amazing maybe....funny, no!! Its the heavier bullets that get the job done.
 
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Isn't it funny how you've got one guy who says the HM2 isn't enough everything just limps away. But you've got others saying that 22lr is plenty.



Well, that's not hard to figure out...

The M2 is throwing a .17 grain bullet with the frangibility of a dinner plate, and the LR is tossing a 40 grain bullet that releases it's energy much the same as a "regular" game bullet. Not a difficult thing to figure out.

I didn't say that the M2 is inadequate, but he was asking how to harvest without making such a mess. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif
 
last christmas I bought an HM2 for squirrel hunting, I love to squirrel hunt and I like to eat them, don't know where stiff neck got his info but its inaccurate,
The HM2 does a good job on squirrels, not bad on small groundhogs, but after your game exceeds around 8 pounds it just doesn't have enough bullet weigh to get the job done unless you headshoot them. I did last year shoot a groundhog (a big sow) at 142 yds, she ran a ways, almost got back to the hole, but I'm convinced that if she would have been 50 yds, she would have gotten away, the range slowed the bullet down enough that it couldn't expand like it normaly does.
Now, I will say this I've squirrel hunted for the last 15 years with a tricked out 10/22 and killed hundreds of squirrels with it, headshooting when possible. Of all those 1, was shot in the head, was totaly incopassitated, but wasn't dead. It was a melanistic (black) grey squirrel so instead of clubbing it, which would mess it up for mounting purposes, I just let it expire, took a couple hours, when you walked by it would kick and twitch.
The first thing I noticed was how well my LH savage mark 2 in HM2 shot, absolutely incredible. I put a weaver 4x16 1/4 moa dot on it and am very well pleased with how it shoots and the performance on squirrels is stellar.
The only thing I see is that out of about 20 squirrels taken with it, all headshot I had 4 that were like the black one described above. not alive but not really dead either, one would set up and seemed to be watching me skin the others, kick him over and he sat back up, couldn't go anywhere, don't think it suffered any, I could see brain matter in the bullets path. thats my only complaint about this great lil rifle, I don't have an HMR, don't have a use for it, but there will allways be a HM2 in my safe for hunting meat squirrels, they're not any more destructive than a 22LR on squirrels, and an out of the box 17 will shoot as well as most custom built 22's. If you like hunting and eating squirrel you can't go wrong with a HM2
RR
 
5 years old, he's going to want to shoot all the time. Go with the 22 lr. My son uses his for everything. Plinking,squirrels, groundhogs you name it. And as stated above, much cheaper to shoot.
 
This has been debated a lot on the RFC forum (Rim Fire Central.com). And with all guns, whether it be a .22 or a .17HM2 it's the bullet that does the job on the game. Unfortunately the problem with the .17HM2's is there are not enough game rounds available for it. Only one so far (Aquila) that doesn't blow the meat up. The Hornady and CCI (which are really the same company) tend to blow the squirrel up.

I bought a CZ-452 in .17HM2 for two reasons. One for cheap target practice out to 100 yards and two for squirrel/crow hunting. The .17HM2 has almost a flat trajectory out to 100 yards, something the .22 doesn't have (HM2 = Mach 2 = 2,100fps). It has not disappointed me for target practice. I choose this rifle over my AR for practicing for economy. I can shoot 200-300 rounds for a few dollars. If I practice with the AR and try to put 200-300 rounds down range I just spent about a hundred dollars or more to do it. You see the advantage of the HM2.

I would say that the .22 wins for small game hunting because of the wide range of rounds you can buy for it. If the HM2 starts getting better hunting rounds developed for it, it'll beat the .22 hands down. But as I said the problem is no good hunting rounds (except one) are available for the HM2.
 
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I'm not sure what you think is incorrect about my post, but here is where I get my information: directly from the manufacturers. Images of TNT, explosives, etc. CCI waged an advertising campaign centered on waging war against varmints, with varmints wearing military helmets etc in cartoon pictures in magazines and on product packaging. They recently went to a different campaign.

During the first couple of years of the 17HMR's existence the only type of ammo available was the TNT or the Vmax bullet, both of which boast explosive performance on varmints. You call that a hunting round? Only recently did Hornady/CCI release the heavier soft point rounds due to demand for a more meat-friendly bullet, and even more recently the FMJ was released.

But the 17HMR was not designed with the intention of using those heavier bullets. It was designed from the begining to shoot lighter more frangible bullets. That's a fact.

Obviously the 17HMR is not the best choice for bigger varmints like animals that weigh 8 pounds (as mentioned) or even bigger animals. It can be effective but that's not it's intended use.
 
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"Neither the 17HMr nor the 17M2 were designed to be "meat" squirrel guns"
this part, like I said I have no experience with the HMR but you placed both on the same level, I do know the capabilities of the HM2, and I'll say, a better "meat" squirrel gun couldn't be found today.
RR
I will say this also, IMO, the only reason that the HM2 was produced and on hand as fast as it was, was because hornady goofed on the HMR, the bullet wasn't heavily constructed enough for the 2550 fps that the HMR produces, it was hyped up and blown all outta proportions, then the first folks to buy them were dissapointed, so a scramble was made to get better ammo in the hands of HMR owners, after that issue was resolved, hornady figured since they were tooled up in full production of the 17 gr. v-max, they brought out a cartride that could usefully fire the 17 gr. v-max. again IMO, and I'm glad they did.
RR
 
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I concur with the Mach2 fans. It is an ideal squirrel sniping round. Bunnies too.
The 17m2 affords the accuracy to shoot squirrels in the bean out to 100 yards. Most 22s can't compete with that level of accuracy. Not much meat in a squirrel's head to waste...
 
For limb chickens, tree rats, or whatever they are called in your neck of the woods, caliber choice is easy.....22 LR. Accurate, lots of good ammo, cheap to shoot.
The hard part is deciding which gun to get, everyone makes a 22 rifle. I would highly recommend a bolt action, they don't have a lot of the quirks that plague some semi-autos. I've hunted with a couple guys that used an HM2. From what ive seen it doesn't kill them any better, just damages more meat.
 
I love the rimfire debates /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Tell ya what, with shot placement the HM2 will kill squirrels...just not in the same manner as the .22LR (being so utilitarian) nor the .17HMR with magnum class stats.

Consider this: with the lowly Gamo .177 (1000fps rating) I took way too many squirrels than a guy should. For me it was the ultimate city shooter (backyard stuff) where a firearm is unthinkable. So yeah, it can be done.

I'm not saying that those having a difficult time killing with the Mach2 are not good shooters.....just saying that I've had more dropped out of trees with a .177 airgun than I dare count....I was the "whitefeather" Hathcock of the neighborhood /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

And by all means, save that .17HMR for reaching out and touching crows!!
 
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