Holding trigger and closing bolt with shell in chamber?

Originally Posted By: peterjci just went and did this to all my bolt guns. savages,rem.700's and win 70's and it worked on all of them.if you keep the gun on fire,press the trigger and close the bolt while pressing the trigger. you cannot get the firing pin to release untill you work the bolt. just gotta lift it up and back down. a saftey (CAN FAIL). i don't think tis method can

I'm tired of repeating myself to someone that don't know what they are talking about. Have a nice day.
EDIT...Oh if your older men used this method for years ..I'm surprised they got to be older men....just plain lucky they never dropped their guns on the butt stock or hit the back of the shroud that encases the safety etc. I would not have hunted with any of them. WELL IF YOU WON';T LISTEN, THAN I'M DONE PLAYING
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Originally Posted By: skidooracer_99like if the firing pin is resting on the primer or not? i dont like the feel of all the spring tension and activity when doing that either.

The firing pin is resting on the primer which is what makes this a HUGE NO NO. If ANYTHING hits the back of the firing pin you WILL get a discharge. Not might, WILL.
If he doesn't trust the safety on his rifle he should get something else with a safety that he does trust OR start doing what an uncle taught me (lift the bolt which WILL prevent a discharge).

A safety that blocks the firing pin is the best; to my knowledge there are only two, the military Mauser and the Model 70 Winchester. All others block something in the trigger group which works but isn't always the best method.
 
Originally Posted By: borkoni just went and did this to all my bolt guns. savages,rem.700's and win 70's and it worked on all of them.if you keep the gun on fire,press the trigger and close the bolt while pressing the trigger. you cannot get the firing pin to release untill you work the bolt. just gotta lift it up and back down. a saftey (CAN FAIL). i don't think tis method can

You just released the firing pin doing this dangerous manuver. Lifting up the bolt just resets the firing pin into the cocked position.

Take a look at the firing pin location at the rear of your bolt in a cocked position, then look at it in the fired or release position that you described. Where do you think the firing pin is when all this is happening?
 
Originally Posted By: Displayed Name I may have to change my line of thought on this. The hunter that intriduced this to me did say that it was for Mauser actions.

Here's what I just found,

If it's a Mauser-type action, the bolt shroud wing safety actually locks the striker in the rearward position via a cam on the wing safety and a corresponding notch cut in the striker tail. That's about as reliable as one can make a safety, short of leaving the chamber empty.

Anyway, I have tested it numerously in all my guns but know now an accident is possible. Not 100% foolproof.

In addition your "friend" apparently doesn't realize that it can only be done with the 98 series Mausers. Anything preceding that model cocks on the forward stroke.
 
I'm reading this in total disbelief that this thread has went this long, where has common sense gone to.. These guys are trying to help you here. What you are doing is going to get someone hurt, it is just a matter of time. Doing this on an empty chamber is pretty standard way of storing firearms but on a live round is STUPID. This day in age there are alot of internet know it alls and this site is full of them, you have to be able to read thru some of the posts to decipher who knows what they are talking about, not just making stupid posts to run there count up. THESE GUYS ARE ARE TRYING TO HELP YOU.


Later TOM
 
#1 I have never heard of this being taught in a hunters safty course.
#2 I have never heard of this being taught in a firearms safty course.
#3 I have never heard of this being printed in a new firearm manual. And believe me the writers for firearm manuals are a little shy of lawers so if it was the safe way to carry a bolt rifle they would tell you to hold the trigger and close the bolt on a live round, but just saying it it dont make any sense.
So I think I will obey the ten commandments of firearm safty and leave this one alone thank you.
try saying it ten times and it really starts to sound funny.
Pull the trigger close the bolt on a live round
Pull the trigger close the bolt on a live round
Pull the trigger close the bolt on a live round
Pull the trigger close the bolt on a live round
Pull the trigger close the bolt on a live round
Pull the trigger close the bolt on a live round
Pull the trigger close the bolt on a live round
Pull the trigger close the bolt on a live round
Pull the trigger close the bolt on a live round
Pull the trigger close the bolt on a live round
Pull the trigger close the bolt on a live round
cracker
 
I think the moderators should close this thread down now. I have said and explained everything that needs to be explained to some of the ninnys on here. You know who you are. If they don't get it then they will have to suffer the consequences Not the guys that get it. Thank all of you for listening.
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but guys...the safety is just so safe and it only requires one small movement where the up and down of the bolt requires two...what the #$@! are you smoking man? When a deer comes up on you when are you going to seemlessly and silently going to raise your entire elbow to work your action...don't try to tell me this is how you hunt because it's insane and wouldn't be any benefit in the field. Oh yeah, by the way, I grew up in Africa and we used our safties.
 
I have always done this with an EMPTY chamber for storage purposes to release some pressure from the spring. A guy would have to be some what insane to let the firing pin closer to the round and state that this is the most safe way to carry a rifle.
 
One person has said this so far, but I think this is true.

It is not just that the firing pin can touch the live round. It could set off the round like a slamfire, but I doubt it. The rear of the firing pin on a M700 is exposed, and now nothing is restraining it. A blow on the back of the bolt of a M700 is a blow on the firing pin, with the pin touching the primer of a live round.

But I've been wrong before.
 
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Originally Posted By: JeepyjerThis is the first time I ever read anything or even heard or even thought on doing with a live round in chamber.

I'm surprised that this is news to so many of you, as I was shown this technique at least 25 years ago. The technique under discussion was presented as a way of increasing magazine capacity. As you well know, some safeties operate from the side and it's not too hard to have one flip off from brush or what not, therefore this was presented as a pretty safe way to carry live rounds in the chamber.

HOWEVER!!!! After getting some rifles in which I could clearly see part of the bolt moving as the firing pin moved, it was easy to figure out that a strike on that bolt could result in a fired round. So, I stopped carrying this way (and a long time ago, too).

Point being, though, is that I'm not even a gun expert and I've heard of (used, even!) this technique.
 
How about just bolt a shell in the chamber, leave the safety off, then wedge a stick in behind the trigger. When you see your quarry just remove stick and fire. Makes about as much sense to me as the close bolt-pull trigger thing. Should work equally as well.
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Disclaimer; The events in this post are fictional, they should NEVER under ANY circumstances be tried at home!
 
When I hunt, I just hold my thumb over the end of the barrel to keep the bullet from coming out.

Seriously though, I have heard of people doing what is descibed here and didn't think it to be a problem. I was also thinking that the firing pin was not protruding from the bolt body when it was at rest. I never tested it. I thought is was something like an automatic pistol that had a second spring pushing the pin back out of the chamber after firing. I'm sure a little research will prove one way or the other but if the firing pin is able to touch the primer with the bolt closed, I would not carry a rifle in that condition. I'm off to look for bolt schematics.

Upon further review, I think it would be a bad choice of how to carry a rifle.
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Yes, it removes the potential energy from the bolt but it leaves the live round sitting on top of an exposed firing pin. enough of a bump to dimple the primer and it could be an accidental discharge. I've always trusted safeties and will continue to do so. In order to completely disable a loaded rifle from firing, I guess one must leave the bolt handle up.

Safe hunting to all!
 
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Just the thought of doing that gives me the hebe-gebes, and my skin is still crawling form cracker's writing it ten times.

All that said I don't really thing there would be enough force in just the slight spring tension to ever set off a round even if the rifle was dropped from a height. If you think the force the spring puts on the the firing pin when the sear is tripped it would have to be EXTREMELY greater than the slight amount of force from the tension on the spring from the primer forcing back the firing pin. Also, the spring would in fact act as a damper absorbing shock like in the suspension of a vehicle.

So, thinking of it technically it seems like it would probably be safe. I WOULD NEVER DO, OR SUGGEST, OR CONDONE SUCH ACTION, but i doubt very seriously if it is likely a safety issue.

I know I'm gonna catch he-double hockey stick for this, but remember I said I'd never do, suggest, or condone it.
 
Quote: All that said I don't really thing there would be enough force in just the slight spring tension to ever set off a round even if the rifle was dropped from a height.

Could hitting the rifle butt a solid blow (as if dropped from a tree stand) in this condition cause an accidental discharge? No one can say absolutely, for sure one way or the other, but odds are darn sure greater that it would, than if safety was on and bolt handle lifted. To fire w/bolt handle lifted and safety on, three things have to happen; 1)bolt rotate to closed position, 2) Safety fail or moved to "fire" position, & 3) trigger depressed or jarred sufficiently to trip the sear.
I'll take my chances with the open bolt and happy to see you qualify above w/following:

Quote: So, thinking of it technically it seems like it would probably be safe. I WOULD NEVER DO, OR SUGGEST, OR CONDONE SUCH ACTION, but i doubt very seriously if it is likely a safety issue.

I know I'm gonna catch he-double hockey stick for this, but remember I said I'd never do, suggest, or condone it.

No hockey sticks here
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, just sayin'
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.

Regards,
hm
 
This practice of holding the trigger and closing the bolt was actually taught by my oldest son's hunting safety instructor some 29 years ago. He claimed it was the safest way to carry a gun with a live shell in the chamber. At first we took him at his word but soon came to our senses.
 


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