How do you shoot running coyotes?
- Thread starter Lonnie
- Start date
how much to lead, depends on distance,and caliber, you shoot, I practice on tires, rolling them down a hill, but I think the key to running shots, is to follow through in one motion, don't hesitate, like shooting birds, I try not to shoot at coyotes, if the afterburners are on..
Rich Cronk
New member
Lonnie,
I use the "swing through" method. My rifle is moving faster than the coyote and when crosshairs are on his nose I pull the trigger. This is on sharp crossing shots and seems to work out to eighty yards or so. I just love watching a coyote cartwheel in my scope.
I use the "swing through" method. My rifle is moving faster than the coyote and when crosshairs are on his nose I pull the trigger. This is on sharp crossing shots and seems to work out to eighty yards or so. I just love watching a coyote cartwheel in my scope.
I was chatting with a pal about this the other day... He did the math...
3 matters to consider:
1. Distance from you to target
2. Ave speed of bullet over that distance
3. Speed of moving target
Using 223 ballistics table with initial FPS of about 3200.....
General Rule of thumb we came up with was to lead a good running coyote (20-25mph perpendicular to your position) at 100 yards by aiming a lead of about 1 to 3/4 of a coyote-length from the leading edge of his chest area in order to hit the vitals area. (approx 4ft change in distance over time)( moving coyote appearing to equal about 3-4ft length)
A "loping" coyote (5-10mph) at 100yds was "aim under his nose" (approx 12-18inch change in distance over time)
I do believe coyotes are capable of short bursts near 35 mph... so you need to judge that one out as about 7 ft difference at 100 yards.
average speed of the bullet is faster at shorter distances, so 50 yards isnt exactly half of those other calcs...
Robb
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"Happiness... is a Target-Rich Environment"
(edit for spelling... again)
[This message has been edited by Robb/Scottsdale/AZ (edited 07-21-2001).]
3 matters to consider:
1. Distance from you to target
2. Ave speed of bullet over that distance
3. Speed of moving target
Using 223 ballistics table with initial FPS of about 3200.....
General Rule of thumb we came up with was to lead a good running coyote (20-25mph perpendicular to your position) at 100 yards by aiming a lead of about 1 to 3/4 of a coyote-length from the leading edge of his chest area in order to hit the vitals area. (approx 4ft change in distance over time)( moving coyote appearing to equal about 3-4ft length)
A "loping" coyote (5-10mph) at 100yds was "aim under his nose" (approx 12-18inch change in distance over time)
I do believe coyotes are capable of short bursts near 35 mph... so you need to judge that one out as about 7 ft difference at 100 yards.
average speed of the bullet is faster at shorter distances, so 50 yards isnt exactly half of those other calcs...
Robb
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"Happiness... is a Target-Rich Environment"
(edit for spelling... again)
[This message has been edited by Robb/Scottsdale/AZ (edited 07-21-2001).]
I wish I could quantify it like Robb has, but I can't. For me it's instinctual or something? I don't know how far to lead them, it's just when it looks right.
But I agree with the respondent that said he was generally reluctant. I don't do it until what I see, body language, tells me he isn't going to offer a better shot. This usually means multiples.
Good hunting. LB
But I agree with the respondent that said he was generally reluctant. I don't do it until what I see, body language, tells me he isn't going to offer a better shot. This usually means multiples.
Good hunting. LB
Robb your buddy did a good job but he forgot a point.
#4, angle of departure of said varmint.
I have also found that if you are shooting a round capable of achieving velocities near 4000fps it simplifies things considerably.
My personal rule with such a setup is that if they are anywhere under 100 no matter the angle of departure nor the speed at which they are doing their departing ,I always pull on FUR.
After about 150 then things start getting dicey again . Unless they are running straight away and then I will take a poke on out to around 300 yards by just pulling on their bunger and letting it rip.
After about 150 to 200 I figure if they have made it that far then they have won the day.
That is unless I have a personal gripe against said vermint, such as a calf or sheep getter.
In that instance I keep lead flying until he gets out of sight or I run out of bullets!
More than once I have watched the last bullet in my rifle send one ass over teakettle at ranges I surprised myself with.
#4, angle of departure of said varmint.
I have also found that if you are shooting a round capable of achieving velocities near 4000fps it simplifies things considerably.
My personal rule with such a setup is that if they are anywhere under 100 no matter the angle of departure nor the speed at which they are doing their departing ,I always pull on FUR.
After about 150 then things start getting dicey again . Unless they are running straight away and then I will take a poke on out to around 300 yards by just pulling on their bunger and letting it rip.
After about 150 to 200 I figure if they have made it that far then they have won the day.
That is unless I have a personal gripe against said vermint, such as a calf or sheep getter.
In that instance I keep lead flying until he gets out of sight or I run out of bullets!
More than once I have watched the last bullet in my rifle send one ass over teakettle at ranges I surprised myself with.
You could ask a bunch of shooters this question and never get the same answer twice and all methods could work depending on the shooter. I think it is something you have to figure out what works for you. The distance a coyote is when you shoot and the angle they are running at makes a big difference to me in the way I aim. At close range I like to have fur in the crosshairs but using a little lead if they are pretty much running broadside to me. The more straight away they are running the I use less, if any, lead. Your first shot is usually the best one so try your hardest to make it count.
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Lonnie....
Since everyone is throwing their two cents worth in the pot, I’ll gladly add mine.
Instead of trying to hit a coyote on the run, try to figure out what is making the coyotes run from you. Perhaps the coyotes see you bring your rifle to bear, or maybe there are some trick air currents giving your away position.
If I were you Lonnie, I’d concentrate on improving control of your scent, camo, movement, approach to the stand before I resort to banging away at running coyotes...
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http://www.predatormasters.com
Since everyone is throwing their two cents worth in the pot, I’ll gladly add mine.
Instead of trying to hit a coyote on the run, try to figure out what is making the coyotes run from you. Perhaps the coyotes see you bring your rifle to bear, or maybe there are some trick air currents giving your away position.
If I were you Lonnie, I’d concentrate on improving control of your scent, camo, movement, approach to the stand before I resort to banging away at running coyotes...
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http://www.predatormasters.com
Lonnie
While I agree with AzWill, I think there are times when your going to have to take a running shot. What helps me is shooting a lot of jacks during the summer with the same rifle I hunt dogs with. Jacks can present many angles of flight. You may miss a lot at first, but you will pick up your lead and start hitting them.
For me, it something I just don't think about anymore. I just know when to pull the trigger when I swing through. My 2 cents...MP
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http://www.predatormasters.com
[This message has been edited by Mike Paul (edited 07-22-2001).]
While I agree with AzWill, I think there are times when your going to have to take a running shot. What helps me is shooting a lot of jacks during the summer with the same rifle I hunt dogs with. Jacks can present many angles of flight. You may miss a lot at first, but you will pick up your lead and start hitting them.
For me, it something I just don't think about anymore. I just know when to pull the trigger when I swing through. My 2 cents...MP
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[This message has been edited by Mike Paul (edited 07-22-2001).]
Craig, RE: Angle of departure: Robb mentioned motion perpendicular to the shooter's position.
However, the distance the coyote moves in said time of bullet flight is nearly the same-- could be 5 feet to the left, 5 feet to the right, 5 feet straight at you, 5 feet away and left... There's only a small amount of change in bullet flight time with change in coyote's position. Using Robb's example above, if a coyote was at 100 yards moving straight away, and moved 4 feet, he'd now be at just over 101 yards. i don't think that would change anyone's "100 yard" hold. The fact that you launch in front of him by that 4 feet, THAT's the important thing.
As Mr. Cronk mentioned, swinging thru the coyote's line of travel before touching off allows you to really only estimate how much in front of him you need to hit, INSTEAD of trying to guess where the coyote is going to be.
Anyway, don't listen to me, i suck at running shots. Practice, practice, practice.
However, the distance the coyote moves in said time of bullet flight is nearly the same-- could be 5 feet to the left, 5 feet to the right, 5 feet straight at you, 5 feet away and left... There's only a small amount of change in bullet flight time with change in coyote's position. Using Robb's example above, if a coyote was at 100 yards moving straight away, and moved 4 feet, he'd now be at just over 101 yards. i don't think that would change anyone's "100 yard" hold. The fact that you launch in front of him by that 4 feet, THAT's the important thing.
As Mr. Cronk mentioned, swinging thru the coyote's line of travel before touching off allows you to really only estimate how much in front of him you need to hit, INSTEAD of trying to guess where the coyote is going to be.
Anyway, don't listen to me, i suck at running shots. Practice, practice, practice.
Michael J. McCasland
New member
I am an old shotgun shooter and this has been both good and bad as far as hitting running coyotes is concerned. The bad comes in leading a moving target. For the longest time I could not hit a coyote if it was no more than tip-toeing. If a coyote was moving I'd pull down on the coyote swing threw like shooting a shotgun and miss. I was always told by people that wern't there that I was no dought shooting behind the moving coyote. I'd swing futher threw and was still mising. For years I decided that a oving coyote could not be hit with a bullet. Then I got to thinking about things. Bird shot moving at 1,100 FPT and a 22-250 at 3,800. Using shotgun like leads did not compute. On the next runner I swung threw like I did before but as the cross hairs crossed the front quarter I went for the shot. The coyote skidded on his chin for 15' with a nice neat hole in his chest. I am now rather proud of my ability to hiting a running coyote. Again shooting shotgun gets the credit. Developing a smooth consistent swing and follow threw in all from the shotgun. However a modification of the shotgun lead is required.
Michael
P.S. Rob common man (a disclaimer: I'm writing this for ome fun and not for agression), leave the calculator at home and shoot, shoot, shoot. The calculator can be a fun accademic toy but won't do you a darn bit of good in the field where instinct rules the day.
Michael
P.S. Rob common man (a disclaimer: I'm writing this for ome fun and not for agression), leave the calculator at home and shoot, shoot, shoot. The calculator can be a fun accademic toy but won't do you a darn bit of good in the field where instinct rules the day.
Michael, for sure, trial-and-error, experimentation... that's a great way to learn. But... seems to me that in YOUR example had someone gotten out a calculator and put in the numbers (1,100 fps VS 3,800 fps), it would have seriously reduced the trial and error period. No, the calculator doesn't REPLACE "practice practice practice," it wisely preceeds it.
It's no different than looking at a ballistics table and having a good general idea how much your bullet drops at certain distances.
Of course, there ARE other methods than just plain skillful shooting:
As we all know, knowing HOW to do something isn't the same as successfully doing it!!!
[This message has been edited by Encore223 (edited 07-24-2001).]
It's no different than looking at a ballistics table and having a good general idea how much your bullet drops at certain distances.
Of course, there ARE other methods than just plain skillful shooting:
As we all know, knowing HOW to do something isn't the same as successfully doing it!!!
[This message has been edited by Encore223 (edited 07-24-2001).]
Encore there just ain't no substitute for missing to help get you on track.
You can pencil this deal to death but until you relax and try to feel your shots on running game its not going to work.
Shooting moving game is instinctual. Practice and miss, practice and miss.
Pretty soon your missing closer..
You can pencil this deal to death but until you relax and try to feel your shots on running game its not going to work.
Shooting moving game is instinctual. Practice and miss, practice and miss.
Pretty soon your missing closer..
Its kind like driving some place without a map.....
You can drive around for a while... and eventually, either by accident or trial and error, your gonna find your destination. But thats not efficient, and sometimes not even effective.
By just shooting to "figure it out", your kinda taking "pot shots", which are going to equal misses and bad hits, which most of us dont care for if we can help...
By doing the math you effectively have given yourself a map to your destination, now the last block or so you still might "miss a turn", but it beats the hell out of wandering downtown aimlessly for hours....
especially when you dont get a large quantity of trials (running shots) at each outting, you have to recall with certainty what the results were last time... which might have been a while...
good hunting !
Robb
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"Happiness... is a Target-Rich Environment"
You can drive around for a while... and eventually, either by accident or trial and error, your gonna find your destination. But thats not efficient, and sometimes not even effective.
By just shooting to "figure it out", your kinda taking "pot shots", which are going to equal misses and bad hits, which most of us dont care for if we can help...
By doing the math you effectively have given yourself a map to your destination, now the last block or so you still might "miss a turn", but it beats the hell out of wandering downtown aimlessly for hours....
especially when you dont get a large quantity of trials (running shots) at each outting, you have to recall with certainty what the results were last time... which might have been a while...
good hunting !
Robb
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"Happiness... is a Target-Rich Environment"
Craig, i totally agree!
But Lonnie asked two questions:
How do I aim at running targets?
How much do I lead?
The math will tell you how much to lead, all conditions remaining constant. When he asks how much to lead a running coyote at 100 yards, i think an answer of "about three feet," sounds better than "as much as it feels right."
An estimate of 3-4 foot lead at least puts Lonnie's shots inside a small buffalo.
But Lonnie asked two questions:
How do I aim at running targets?
How much do I lead?
The math will tell you how much to lead, all conditions remaining constant. When he asks how much to lead a running coyote at 100 yards, i think an answer of "about three feet," sounds better than "as much as it feels right."
An estimate of 3-4 foot lead at least puts Lonnie's shots inside a small buffalo.
Ok folks lets look at a real world scenario for a second and then I am going to give up on this question.
When robb mentioned a coyote running perpendicular to the shooter as his basis for the figures that simply means one thing and one thing only.
Any other angle of departure of coyote other than a right angle to you and these figures dont compute.
Let one be leaving you at 45 degrees instead of broad side at 90 and where do you hold?
QUICK! ah too late, he simply didn't hang around long enough to let you do the math in your head.
Robb I can tell you this for a fact, if you are worried about making bad hits on running coyotes then there is only ONE way to avoid it.
Don't shoot if they are moving.
Me, I shoot.
Do I hit some badly ? yep.
Do I have to finish some off with a second shot? yep.
Do I lose some that run off wounded? yep again.
All I can say is that if someone chooses to not shoot at running coyotes, thats their choice and I respect it.
They must respect my choice to do whatever I feel like as well.
Howwever if you do choose to shoot at moving targets then you WILL lose some and you WILL wound some .Fact.
So if some day you ever really want to learn how to hit a moving target that is not only running at changing angles as well as changing speeds then remember this one thing.
When you decide to take the poke at a moving critter tell your self one thing just as you bring your rifle up.
Very clearly say , slow down ,,focus ,,squeeze.
your first shot is going to be your best bet by about 80% , don't look at your crosshairs, instead focus on the critter.
This will keep your swing smooth and fluid, focus on the hairs and you will have a tendency to poke your barrel at him.
And I am sorry but if your not missing a lot of shots then you are simply not shooting enough to find your feel.
Good luck.
When robb mentioned a coyote running perpendicular to the shooter as his basis for the figures that simply means one thing and one thing only.
Any other angle of departure of coyote other than a right angle to you and these figures dont compute.
Let one be leaving you at 45 degrees instead of broad side at 90 and where do you hold?
QUICK! ah too late, he simply didn't hang around long enough to let you do the math in your head.
Robb I can tell you this for a fact, if you are worried about making bad hits on running coyotes then there is only ONE way to avoid it.
Don't shoot if they are moving.
Me, I shoot.
Do I hit some badly ? yep.
Do I have to finish some off with a second shot? yep.
Do I lose some that run off wounded? yep again.
All I can say is that if someone chooses to not shoot at running coyotes, thats their choice and I respect it.
They must respect my choice to do whatever I feel like as well.
Howwever if you do choose to shoot at moving targets then you WILL lose some and you WILL wound some .Fact.
So if some day you ever really want to learn how to hit a moving target that is not only running at changing angles as well as changing speeds then remember this one thing.
When you decide to take the poke at a moving critter tell your self one thing just as you bring your rifle up.
Very clearly say , slow down ,,focus ,,squeeze.
your first shot is going to be your best bet by about 80% , don't look at your crosshairs, instead focus on the critter.
This will keep your swing smooth and fluid, focus on the hairs and you will have a tendency to poke your barrel at him.
And I am sorry but if your not missing a lot of shots then you are simply not shooting enough to find your feel.
Good luck.
FWIW...
Its alot easier to "quick do the math" on the running shot if you already have a "Known Starting Point" like 3-4 ft lead at 100 yards for a perpendicular runner and can then adjust for fire conditions. Its just like knowing your holdover for longer distance as well when your scope is zeroed for 100 yds...
Doing the math ahead of time still helps considerably. Also helps to keep you honest if you shoot different FPS armaments, to know what each one is capable of to begin with. again, just like holdover for longer distance.
Doing the math doesnt solve all your errors, there is wind to consider as well and other variables that slip in there.
Gut shots happen... Ive made them myself Im sorry to say. And theyll happen again, thats the odds. Sometimes that means not shooting, sometimes that means quick-calc'ing to help the shot before squeezing.
Its hard to hit a "home run" if your not "In the ball park" to begin with...
Robb
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"Happiness... is a Target-Rich Environment"
Its alot easier to "quick do the math" on the running shot if you already have a "Known Starting Point" like 3-4 ft lead at 100 yards for a perpendicular runner and can then adjust for fire conditions. Its just like knowing your holdover for longer distance as well when your scope is zeroed for 100 yds...
Doing the math ahead of time still helps considerably. Also helps to keep you honest if you shoot different FPS armaments, to know what each one is capable of to begin with. again, just like holdover for longer distance.
Doing the math doesnt solve all your errors, there is wind to consider as well and other variables that slip in there.
Gut shots happen... Ive made them myself Im sorry to say. And theyll happen again, thats the odds. Sometimes that means not shooting, sometimes that means quick-calc'ing to help the shot before squeezing.
Its hard to hit a "home run" if your not "In the ball park" to begin with...
Robb
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"Happiness... is a Target-Rich Environment"
Rich Cronk
New member
Well let me see, that bugger is 37 yards out and departing full speed at a 39 degree angle now which pocket did I put my slide rule in? Oh yes, here it is-The bugger is 129 yards out and departing at 47 degree angle, now does this rifle shoot 3250 fps or was it 3315 fps? Oh Nuts, he's gone now!LOL LOL LOL