How far Below Listed Minimum Powder Charge

D

dpollard

New member
I am trying to work up a load for the following:

22-250 Remington
Hodgdon Varget Powder
55 grain Varmint Nightmare Extreme w/canelure
CCI Large Rifle Primers

The primary use for this load will be for Coyote hunting and I want to keep velocity as low as possible (theory being saving the pelts).

My Lyman manual and the Hodgdon website list 34 grains as the minimum powder charge. The gentlemen I bought the gun from was shooting 32.7 grains of Varget and claims dime-sized groups at 100 yards. I am not getting the accuracy out of that charge and want to work up a different load. I know the gun is capable of getting dime size groups at 100 yards b/c I've done it with other load combo's (Hornady V-max bullet)

How far below minimum listed charges is it safe to go? Should I begin working up and down from the 32.7 grains or just work up???
 
book listed min...is just that a min! I would not go below that at all! ...try calling Sierra and ask for a reduced load for the bullet you want to use and go from there!
just my .2cents
 
You should only down load powders that the manufacturers of said powders recommend down loading. I do not believe Varget is one of those powders.

If you are looking for a good download for the 22-250 then you will probably need to be looking at a different powder. Take a long look at Trail Boss. It is known for down loading. Tom.
 
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I have no first hand proof that loading below Minimum charge is dangerous. But in 46 years of reloading / handloading (what ever you want to call it) I have read many an article on the subject that below Minimum loads can be DANGEROUS and has been disastrous. I my self do not want to find out that it is Dangerous with first hand knowledge.

So I would say DO NOT load below Minimum charge listed in manuals.

As someone else has said call the bullet MFG and ask them if they have any loading INFO for reduced loads.

I believe you could achieve a load by the choice of a bullet that would be pelt friendly without going under a listed Minimum load.


DAB

PS. I have quite a collection of DVD's of yote hunting and have seen many a kills made with 22-250, 223 Rem, .243's ETC. and I do not see very many kills that have much pelt damage. I have seen the kills where the hunter is using rifles like 270's and 300 Magnums ETC. and there is a whole lot of pelt damage.
 
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Google for information on building reduced loads,,,You will need a different powder and some kind of packing to put on top of the new powder in the case to insure ignition, otherwise you will wind up with bullets stuck half way down the barrel...Not something you want to deal with even once...It's a really good way to screw up your firearm barrel...
 
Yep, I'd look for a reduced load with trailboss or something. I never go under published minimum. I actually always start in the mid range.

I mean, you did buy a 22-250, so why load it down? There are plenty of other 22 cal fur friendly chamberings available. IE: 221 FB for one. But hey, I shoot a 243 and don't save fur, so.......
 
Below minimum on listed loads can result in erratic and dangerous pressure spikes .

You can shoot cast lead bullets for reduced velocity in the 22/250, as well as using some approved pistol powders....I think Varmint Al's site has some of those, and also some at www.accuratereloading.com

Also, try using a 40 gr. Sierra HP at the lowest safe quantity [36gr.] with IMR 4350 and that will give a velocity of 3270 (47th Edition Lyman Manual).

And, same quantity of IMR 4350 will give 3165 FPS with the 52 gr. Speer HP, another good fur saver (perhaps).

IMR 4064 and AA 2230 are other powders to consider in the 22/250 at the minimum listed manual load ...if you have them...for slower velocities withe 52gr. bullet.

IMR 4350 is a slower powder that will better fill the 22/250 case for better accuracy at the lower velocities.

Don't expect a miracle every time on a fox shot at 50 yards...even at 3100 FPS.
 
Old turtle the best part about Trail Boss is you do not need to use a filler with your powder charge. The powder is extemely bulky. I just bought a couple of 5 pounders. And a 5# container of Trail Boss is a larger container than an 8# container of RL-7.

Trail Boss will fill up the case.

And according to the mfr.(and I have done it). You can completely fill the case up and not be dangerous. Then you can also reduce the load by 30% if you want an even lighter load.

But don't believe me. Trail Boss will put it in writing.

Below is a link put out by Trail Boss that gives a direct load for the 22-250 with Trail Boss. Tom.


http://www.imrpowder.com/PDF/Trail-Boss-data.pdf
 
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A guy that taught me a lot about reloading told me this, If you start under the minimun charge you could end up with a detonation instead of a controlled burn up through the powder. To low of a powder level and the powder lays flat in the casing and the primer blows the spark across the top. This combined with to much air space causes the powder to burn or flare up to fast and cause higher pressures or a detonation. He told me powders that fill the cases are a better choice, more so when loading pistol casings. I don't know if this is true, but I belived him. That was 35 years ago and seem to make sense. Sorry for the long post.
 
Thank you all for your replies. Seems the consensus is don't go below minimum listed charge. I have been told to use the Trail Boss powder on a couple of forums now so I may give it a try.
 
who me:

What the fellow told you 35 years ago is essentially true; the air space and powder combine to create a peak pressure spike well beyound the PSI designs of the respective case...this causes case rupture, likely action damage, and likely injury to the shooter.
 
Strange things can and do occur when you try to go to low with the powder. Personally, I look at at the loads listed in manuals as "starting" and "max not minimum and max. When the starting load is not known it's always recommended to drop 10% from max and start from there. If 10% is good is 20% gonna hurt anything? 99.9% of the time you're fine. Up to you if you want to risk that .1%. If you choose to work down, do the same thing as you do when you work up and are around max. Make changes small and go slow.

Best bet is to work with proven powder/loads. If you switch to H4895 and go Hodgdons website you will see a good section on reduced and kid friendly loads. With H4895 you can go down as much as 40%. It's not position sensitive and you don't need fillers. Trailboss is another load that is manufacture recommended for reduced loads but we're talkin VERY reduced load. Talkin cat sneeze.

BlueDot, IMR SR4759 and Unique are also powders commonly used for reduced loads. I've had good luck with the first 2 in .30-30's but starting loads are hard to find and generally are not published. None of these are position sensitive.

Overall your best bet is H4895. But in reality I don't think you have much to worry about. I've never used the bullet you are trying but my .22-250 spitting 50gr V-maxs at around 3600fps is great on coyote fur. I don't think you need to go any slower, just find a load your gun likes better. Try some H380.

CB

BTW, try to get your hands on a Nosler manual and see what it says starting is for Varget in .22-250. I don't know where you are getting your loads from but it's been my experience that compared to the competition, Hodgdons site is usually pretty hot loads and Noslers are usually very conservative. Noslers starting may be well below everyone else's for starting loads.
 
Originally Posted By: Chris_BriceStrange things can and do occur when you try to go to low with the powder. Personally, I look at at the loads listed in manuals as "starting" and "max not minimum and max. When the starting load is not known it's always recommended to drop 10% from max and start from there. If 10% is good is 20% gonna hurt anything? 99.9% of the time you're fine. Up to you if you want to risk that .1%. If you choose to work down, do the same thing as you do when you work up and are around max. Make changes small and go slow.

Best bet is to work with proven powder/loads. If you switch to H4895 and go Hodgdons website you will see a good section on reduced and kid friendly loads. With H4895 you can go down as much as 40%. It's not position sensitive and you don't need fillers. Trailboss is another load that is manufacture recommended for reduced loads but we're talkin VERY reduced load. Talkin cat sneeze.

BlueDot, IMR SR4759 and Unique are also powders commonly used for reduced loads. I've had good luck with the first 2 in .30-30's but starting loads are hard to find and generally are not published. None of these are position sensitive.

Overall your best bet is H4895. But in reality I don't think you have much to worry about. I've never used the bullet you are trying but my .22-250 spitting 50gr V-maxs at around 3600fps is great on coyote fur. I don't think you need to go any slower, just find a load your gun likes better. Try some H380.

CB

BTW, try to get your hands on a Nosler manual and see what it says starting is for Varget in .22-250. I don't know where you are getting your loads from but it's been my experience that compared to the competition, Hodgdons site is usually pretty hot loads and Noslers are usually very conservative. Noslers starting may be well below everyone else's for starting loads.

Chis, very informative reply and I really appreciate it. I actually have the H4895 and also H380. Honestly, I may just go back to the H380, I was getting very good accuracy with it and it meters better than Varget. It just seems that so many people use Varget so I switched thinking that if it works for everyone else why not me. Perhaps my gun just doesn't like it.

I actually shot 32.7 grains of the Varget with my bullets with no problems (minimum load is 34 grains from Lyman and also Hodgdon website). Just no accuracy. Glad to hear your not doing too much pelt damage with VMAX at 3600fps.

What exactly does "position sensitive" mean? Is this something to do with not filling up the case? Please forgive me, I am still fairly new to reloading, coming up on my 1st full year is all.
 
I skipped most of the above, so forgive if I repeat. Also please forgive if I'm wrong in the science, but here's how I think.

There is a difference between a combustible, and an explosive. And a combustible can be explosive.

Take a given charge, it's not compressed but there's no real room either. Ignite the bottom and the powder burns from the bottom to the top expanding as gasses allow and you get a more or less controlled burn that builds pressure until the charge and its remainder exits the barrel at which point it vents.


Take the same charge and give it some head room. Ignite the bottom and the powder itself can push upward giving burn room around all available powder. Now instead of a controlled burn you have the ability for all powder to ignite at once rather than in succession. Instead of having a linear burn and progressive pressure gains you have the possibility of a sever pressure spike and then an explosion if the case/action can't contain it. Even if the pressure doesn't reach the point that it can blow, since the powder is 'scattered' through the case there's next to no way to control how fast it burns so the pressure and muzzle velocity will be all over the map from 1 case to the next. Accuracy is all about consistence, remove it and remove all accuracy.

I know many that download beyond the base charge will top the case with fiberfill or similar to keep the powder in place at the bottom. It gives a more uniform burn, but also keeps the powder in place simulating a smaller case.

I think of it like grain in a silo.
Sitting all in a pile I can set fire to it and get a burn that lasts a long time, but just a burn. Drop it in a silo where each grain can burn, hit it with a match and I'm left with a big crater right now.
 
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