How many animals go to heaven?
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Originally Posted By: fw707Originally Posted By: Infidel 762You are wasting your time arguing about this.
I don’t see any argument at all so far.
Just discussion that BJJ223 has chosen to continue.
Do you see an argument?
A simple question was asked of animals going to heaven that progressed into an exchange of “sets of reason given with the aim of persuading others that an action or idea is right or wrong.” i.e. a definition of “argument”.
As I goes on it takes the typical path that can be summed up with:
Side A: you believe in a cultist superstition... here is science and faults in your scripture that proves them to be a fairy tales...
Side B: here is some more scripture and I will pray for you...
So far this one has not ran its course but it could easily be headed there. I was mostly referring to bickering back and forth with scripture and religion.
I would still like to hear some hypothesis on this;
Originally Posted By: BJJ223How many explosions have you seen create order? After the explosion, did the remains of the explosion spontaneously create life while in a predictable orbit that never stops?
I don’t see any argument at all so far.
Just discussion that BJJ223 has chosen to continue.
Do you see an argument?
A simple question was asked of animals going to heaven that progressed into an exchange of “sets of reason given with the aim of persuading others that an action or idea is right or wrong.” i.e. a definition of “argument”.
As I goes on it takes the typical path that can be summed up with:
Side A: you believe in a cultist superstition... here is science and faults in your scripture that proves them to be a fairy tales...
Side B: here is some more scripture and I will pray for you...
So far this one has not ran its course but it could easily be headed there. I was mostly referring to bickering back and forth with scripture and religion.
I would still like to hear some hypothesis on this;
Originally Posted By: BJJ223How many explosions have you seen create order? After the explosion, did the remains of the explosion spontaneously create life while in a predictable orbit that never stops?
crapshoot
Well-known member
The answer is this simple...
If you believe in God, Jesus Christ our savior,etc.. then the answer would probably be yes or no or maybe.
If you don't believe in a God or Savoir then there is no need for you to answer since you don't believe in a God /Savior therefore there is no heaven.
If you believe in God, Jesus Christ our savior,etc.. then the answer would probably be yes or no or maybe.
If you don't believe in a God or Savoir then there is no need for you to answer since you don't believe in a God /Savior therefore there is no heaven.
DiRTY DOG
Well-known member
Originally Posted By: BJJ223Okay. I’ll come back in. The Bible is all I need as my evidence. It is the eyewitness testimony of dozens of men who had an experience with the living God. Eyewitness testimony of dozens..? That is a remarkable claim.
If it turned out that zero of the "eyewitness testimonies" in the bible were actually first hand "eyewitness testimonies" like you claim, if it turned out that the stories in the NT etc were actually written decades later by men who only heard those stories by word of mouth but never actually met Jesus, would you still consider that EVIDENCE and how reliable would you rate that evidence on a scale from 1 to 100 with 100 being absolutely credible and 1 being extremely doubtful?
For the record, the coyotes I shoot don't go to heaven. They go into the nearest ditch, where I throw them.
If it turned out that zero of the "eyewitness testimonies" in the bible were actually first hand "eyewitness testimonies" like you claim, if it turned out that the stories in the NT etc were actually written decades later by men who only heard those stories by word of mouth but never actually met Jesus, would you still consider that EVIDENCE and how reliable would you rate that evidence on a scale from 1 to 100 with 100 being absolutely credible and 1 being extremely doubtful?
For the record, the coyotes I shoot don't go to heaven. They go into the nearest ditch, where I throw them.
Originally Posted By: DiRTY DOGOriginally Posted By: BJJ223Okay. I’ll come back in. The Bible is all I need as my evidence. It is the eyewitness testimony of dozens of men who had an experience with the living God. Eyewitness testimony of dozens..? That is a remarkable claim.
If it turned out that zero of the "eyewitness testimonies" in the bible were actually first hand "eyewitness testimonies" like you claim, if it turned out that the stories in the NT etc were actually written decades later by men who only heard those stories by word of mouth but never actually met Jesus, would you still consider that EVIDENCE and how reliable would you rate that evidence on a scale from 1 to 100 with 100 being absolutely credible and 1 being extremely doubtful?
For the record, the coyotes I shoot don't go to heaven. They go into the nearest ditch, where I throw them.
Matthew, Mark, John, Peter, Paul ... all had first hand experiences with the Jesus Christ. They were eyewitnesses to his resurrection. They documented their experiences. The Old Testament did the same. The whole purpose of the Old Testament is to point to the coming Savior. His birth, life, death and resurrection were foretold centuries in advance. When the wise men came to seek the Christ after his birth, it was because they knew the scriptures foretelling his arrival. We have more manuscript evidence of the Holy Bible than any written book on planet earth. Josephus and many other non-Biblical sources testify to his existence.
Bottom line - You are a sinner in the eyes of God. Christmas represents the savior born to bring peace on earth and goodwill towards men. It means you can have peace with God. But, you have to humble yourself and come to him on his terms, not yours.
No one can pay for your sin but Jesus Christ.
If it turned out that zero of the "eyewitness testimonies" in the bible were actually first hand "eyewitness testimonies" like you claim, if it turned out that the stories in the NT etc were actually written decades later by men who only heard those stories by word of mouth but never actually met Jesus, would you still consider that EVIDENCE and how reliable would you rate that evidence on a scale from 1 to 100 with 100 being absolutely credible and 1 being extremely doubtful?
For the record, the coyotes I shoot don't go to heaven. They go into the nearest ditch, where I throw them.
Matthew, Mark, John, Peter, Paul ... all had first hand experiences with the Jesus Christ. They were eyewitnesses to his resurrection. They documented their experiences. The Old Testament did the same. The whole purpose of the Old Testament is to point to the coming Savior. His birth, life, death and resurrection were foretold centuries in advance. When the wise men came to seek the Christ after his birth, it was because they knew the scriptures foretelling his arrival. We have more manuscript evidence of the Holy Bible than any written book on planet earth. Josephus and many other non-Biblical sources testify to his existence.
Bottom line - You are a sinner in the eyes of God. Christmas represents the savior born to bring peace on earth and goodwill towards men. It means you can have peace with God. But, you have to humble yourself and come to him on his terms, not yours.
No one can pay for your sin but Jesus Christ.
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DiRTY DOG
Well-known member
Originally Posted By: BJJ223Matthew, Mark, John, Peter, Paul ... all had first hand experiences with the Jesus Christ. They were eyewitnesses to his resurrection. They documented their experiences. The Old Testament did the same. Sounds like you have new testament authorship, historicity and authenticity all figured out. Better than the scholars and experts.
But we all know belief has nothing to do with facts, and some of the strongest "believers" are the most unwilling to look at facts or new information outside their comfort-belief zone. Not just christians, that applies to politics and flat earthers and climate change etc.
I know, I used to be like that about religion. Like cement: all mixed up and permanently set. My views have since changed.
But we all know belief has nothing to do with facts, and some of the strongest "believers" are the most unwilling to look at facts or new information outside their comfort-belief zone. Not just christians, that applies to politics and flat earthers and climate change etc.
I know, I used to be like that about religion. Like cement: all mixed up and permanently set. My views have since changed.
Originally Posted By: DiRTY DOGOriginally Posted By: BJJ223Matthew, Mark, John, Peter, Paul ... all had first hand experiences with the Jesus Christ. They were eyewitnesses to his resurrection. They documented their experiences. The Old Testament did the same. Sounds like you have new testament authorship, historicity and authenticity all figured out. Better than the scholars and experts.
But we all know belief has nothing to do with facts, and some of the strongest "believers" are the most unwilling to look at facts or new information outside their comfort-belief zone. Not just christians, that applies to politics and flat earthers and climate change etc.
I know, I used to be like that about religion. Like cement: all mixed up and permanently set. My views have since changed.
Well said.
When you have a belief system that causes you to believe that you are morally superior to others who don’t share that same belief, why in the heck would you allow facts to get in the way?
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But we all know belief has nothing to do with facts, and some of the strongest "believers" are the most unwilling to look at facts or new information outside their comfort-belief zone. Not just christians, that applies to politics and flat earthers and climate change etc.
I know, I used to be like that about religion. Like cement: all mixed up and permanently set. My views have since changed.
Well said.
When you have a belief system that causes you to believe that you are morally superior to others who don’t share that same belief, why in the heck would you allow facts to get in the way?
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When you have a belief system that causes you to believe that you are morally superior to others who don’t share that same belief, why in the heck would you allow facts to get in the way?
You are very confused.
No Christian claims moral superiority. It is the exact opposite. I am a sinner that deserves eternal damnation. There is no good in me that justifies my salvation. Therefore, I seek forgiveness from my sin through Jesus Christ who died in my place.
The facts are why I believe. The god of this world (Satan) has blinded your eyes to the simplicity of the love God has for you. If you sincerely ask him, he will open your eyes. He could not have made it any easier. You don't even have to get up off the couch. You can have eternal life just by asking.
You are very confused.
No Christian claims moral superiority. It is the exact opposite. I am a sinner that deserves eternal damnation. There is no good in me that justifies my salvation. Therefore, I seek forgiveness from my sin through Jesus Christ who died in my place.
The facts are why I believe. The god of this world (Satan) has blinded your eyes to the simplicity of the love God has for you. If you sincerely ask him, he will open your eyes. He could not have made it any easier. You don't even have to get up off the couch. You can have eternal life just by asking.
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Originally Posted By: BJJ223When you have a belief system that causes you to believe that you are morally superior to others who don’t share that same belief, why in the heck would you allow facts to get in the way?
You are very confused.
No Christian claims moral superiority. It is the exact opposite. I am a sinner that deserves eternal damnation. There is no good in me that justifies my salvation. Therefore, I seek forgiveness from my sin through Jesus Christ who died in my place.
The facts are why I believe. The god of this world (Satan) has blinded your eyes to the simplicity of the love God has for you. If you sincerely ask him, he will open your eyes. He could not have made it any easier. You don't even have to get up off the couch. You can have eternal life just by asking.
I am confused??
So help me out here...
Your god is omnipotent, omnipresent, and omniscient.
He is perfect.
Your god created the world.
He created man in his image-also perfect.
Perfect man messed up.
So your god killed all his mistakes in a big flood and started over.
So the next batch of folks messed up too, and your god had a relationship with a woman without her consent, so he could kill his child as a sacrifice for all of the folks born in the world after that, even though he is omnipotent and already knew before the beginning of the world everybody who would be rewarded or damned before they were even born.
So now everybody in the world is born as an unworthy piece of trash who will be damned and punished in a fire for all of eternity through no fault of their own regardless of the life they live and the good they do for humanity......
Unless they bow down and worship the son that the father loved so much that he killed him.
So....
You think I am very confused, and I think you are delusional and bordering on seriously mentally ill.
But millions of people believe some or most of it and accept it as normal.
Personally, I think it’s mostly due to indoctrination.
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You are very confused.
No Christian claims moral superiority. It is the exact opposite. I am a sinner that deserves eternal damnation. There is no good in me that justifies my salvation. Therefore, I seek forgiveness from my sin through Jesus Christ who died in my place.
The facts are why I believe. The god of this world (Satan) has blinded your eyes to the simplicity of the love God has for you. If you sincerely ask him, he will open your eyes. He could not have made it any easier. You don't even have to get up off the couch. You can have eternal life just by asking.
I am confused??
So help me out here...
Your god is omnipotent, omnipresent, and omniscient.
He is perfect.
Your god created the world.
He created man in his image-also perfect.
Perfect man messed up.
So your god killed all his mistakes in a big flood and started over.
So the next batch of folks messed up too, and your god had a relationship with a woman without her consent, so he could kill his child as a sacrifice for all of the folks born in the world after that, even though he is omnipotent and already knew before the beginning of the world everybody who would be rewarded or damned before they were even born.
So now everybody in the world is born as an unworthy piece of trash who will be damned and punished in a fire for all of eternity through no fault of their own regardless of the life they live and the good they do for humanity......
Unless they bow down and worship the son that the father loved so much that he killed him.
So....
You think I am very confused, and I think you are delusional and bordering on seriously mentally ill.
But millions of people believe some or most of it and accept it as normal.
Personally, I think it’s mostly due to indoctrination.
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Merdit
Active member
Originally Posted By: fw707 your god had a relationship with a woman without her consent,
A small point, maybe, but from what I read, it appears that Mary did consent to being the mother of Jesus, and even considered herself blessed. (If that is the woman referenced.)
I may not see the rest in the same way, but can see how it may be viewed that way. Certainly leads towards lots of questions, which I see as a good thing.
A small point, maybe, but from what I read, it appears that Mary did consent to being the mother of Jesus, and even considered herself blessed. (If that is the woman referenced.)
I may not see the rest in the same way, but can see how it may be viewed that way. Certainly leads towards lots of questions, which I see as a good thing.
https://www.huffpost.com/entry/12-famous...4b057d7d7c7a1e5
It's just my observation that there are as many or more science based theories as there are religions. One person on this thread mentioned the earth being 4 billion years old; with a little google searching I found that some scientists are inclined to believe that, while others are inclined to believe that the earth is much much younger.
There are a lot of things that don't match up with what science says and science can't explain. According to physics as commonly taught, a bumble bee shouldn't be able to fly. There are accounts of dinosaurs in existence as recently as 150 years ago. I've been told the petroglyphs in Picketwire Canyon in SE Colorado show pictures of bears, deer, buffalo, and dinosaurs. The science taught when I was in school said the dinosaurs were extinct eons before man existed. Some things just don't match up, and those are just a couple examples off the top of my head.
It's just my observation that there are as many or more science based theories as there are religions. One person on this thread mentioned the earth being 4 billion years old; with a little google searching I found that some scientists are inclined to believe that, while others are inclined to believe that the earth is much much younger.
There are a lot of things that don't match up with what science says and science can't explain. According to physics as commonly taught, a bumble bee shouldn't be able to fly. There are accounts of dinosaurs in existence as recently as 150 years ago. I've been told the petroglyphs in Picketwire Canyon in SE Colorado show pictures of bears, deer, buffalo, and dinosaurs. The science taught when I was in school said the dinosaurs were extinct eons before man existed. Some things just don't match up, and those are just a couple examples off the top of my head.
Originally Posted By: obarohttps://www.huffpost.com/entry/12-famous...4b057d7d7c7a1e5
It's just my observation that there are as many or more science based theories as there are religions. One person on this thread mentioned the earth being 4 billion years old; with a little google searching I found that some scientists are inclined to believe that, while others are inclined to believe that the earth is much much younger.
There are a lot of things that don't match up with what science says and science can't explain. According to physics as commonly taught, a bumble bee shouldn't be able to fly. There are accounts of dinosaurs in existence as recently as 150 years ago. I've been told the petroglyphs in Picketwire Canyon in SE Colorado show pictures of bears, deer, buffalo, and dinosaurs. The science taught when I was in school said the dinosaurs were extinct eons before man existed. Some things just don't match up, and those are just a couple examples off the top of my head.
That’s a good article.
Nobody knows all the facts and I think we should keep our minds open to possibilities.
Claiming you have all the answers, or even worse-the one and only correct answer, is totally absurd in my opinion.
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It's just my observation that there are as many or more science based theories as there are religions. One person on this thread mentioned the earth being 4 billion years old; with a little google searching I found that some scientists are inclined to believe that, while others are inclined to believe that the earth is much much younger.
There are a lot of things that don't match up with what science says and science can't explain. According to physics as commonly taught, a bumble bee shouldn't be able to fly. There are accounts of dinosaurs in existence as recently as 150 years ago. I've been told the petroglyphs in Picketwire Canyon in SE Colorado show pictures of bears, deer, buffalo, and dinosaurs. The science taught when I was in school said the dinosaurs were extinct eons before man existed. Some things just don't match up, and those are just a couple examples off the top of my head.
That’s a good article.
Nobody knows all the facts and I think we should keep our minds open to possibilities.
Claiming you have all the answers, or even worse-the one and only correct answer, is totally absurd in my opinion.
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Originally Posted By: MerditOriginally Posted By: fw707 your god had a relationship with a woman without her consent,
A small point, maybe, but from what I read, it appears that Mary did consent to being the mother of Jesus, and even considered herself blessed. (If that is the woman referenced.)
I may not see the rest in the same way, but can see how it may be viewed that way. Certainly leads towards lots of questions, which I see as a good thing.
Yes, questions are always good.
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A small point, maybe, but from what I read, it appears that Mary did consent to being the mother of Jesus, and even considered herself blessed. (If that is the woman referenced.)
I may not see the rest in the same way, but can see how it may be viewed that way. Certainly leads towards lots of questions, which I see as a good thing.
Yes, questions are always good.
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