How many reloads for your AR brass?

Hidalgo

Hidalgo

Well-known member
How many times are you guys loading your brass before you toss it? I know that the life is going to be far shorter than a bolt gun. I have heard every answer in the book .... from only 3 times to over 10. I would prefer not to have a case separation (or worse) if I can avoid it. I have some that is on it's 3rd load and it still looks fine ... from the outside.
 
It will depend on several things like..

How sloppy is your chamber.

How hot are your loads.

How much your resizing die is pushing the shoulder back.

What quality is your brass.

Maybe others.

You can check the inside of your cases with a small piece of wire, with a small L shaped bend in it. You feel for a ring up near the head, and if you feel anything, you chunk it. A large paper clip and a set of pliers will get you started.
 
I have way over 15 reloads on all my AR15 brass. I run 10+ mixed brands of brass and will toss when I can see a line at the head of the brass which is usually a fracture & toss em in the brass bin.
I will run my borescope in the ones Im not sure about as you will see the spitting line easy. The wire trick is 100 yrs old and works pretty good.
 
I usually loose it before it fails. My AR10 300rsaum is a different story. I usually get about 4 loads out of it, but I'm pushing everything to the max.
 
On my 260 with remington brass i have got 8 and its just beat to [beeep] so i just use it for hunting and it doesnt matter if it gets lost. Its not loaded that hot just below book max. I have also noticed that the primer pockets get loose first before anything else goes.
 
I'm on about 8-10 times. My primer pockets go first so while priming if they seem to go in a bit to easy I mark the brass with a sharpie. Once its been fired it goes into my junk can.
 
Lots of + ten with no annealing in various cahmberings.. Cases shot in a tight chamber and bushing dies with no expander. Shoulder set back is also kept minimal.

Greg
 
How much setback in headspace are you guys going for on your gas guns? I was planning on bumping the shoulder .001" but I also want them to cycle reliably. Not new to reloading, just new to reloading AR's. 223 Wylde chamber and standard rcbs dies btw.
 
Originally Posted By: K_V_VHow much setback in headspace are you guys going for on your gas guns? I was planning on bumping the shoulder .001" but I also want them to cycle reliably. Not new to reloading, just new to reloading AR's. 223 Wylde chamber and standard rcbs dies btw.

Headspace will not affect feeding - but it can affect the final lock-up.

There is nothing about 0.004" that has any meaning.

Neck size until you have lock-up problems, and then move the headspace back 0.001" at a time until there is no lock-up drag. Then lock the die setting.
 
Originally Posted By: CatShooterOriginally Posted By: K_V_VHow much setback in headspace are you guys going for on your gas guns? I was planning on bumping the shoulder .001" but I also want them to cycle reliably. Not new to reloading, just new to reloading AR's. 223 Wylde chamber and standard rcbs dies btw.

Headspace will not affect feeding - but it can affect the final lock-up.

There is nothing about 0.004" that has any meaning.

Neck size until you have lock-up problems, and then move the headspace back 0.001" at a time until there is no lock-up drag. Then lock the die setting.



Let me clarify then. Get a hornady or Sinclair headspace gage so you can measure the fire formed brass. Use the fire formed brass as your chamber size and bump the shoulder back .004 from that chamber size.

If you don't bump it back enough it may fully close on your round but you will have one heck of a time manually opening the chamber. See the thread on mortaring your AR.
 
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Originally Posted By: SfsmedicOriginally Posted By: CatShooterOriginally Posted By: K_V_VHow much setback in headspace are you guys going for on your gas guns? I was planning on bumping the shoulder .001" but I also want them to cycle reliably. Not new to reloading, just new to reloading AR's. 223 Wylde chamber and standard rcbs dies btw.

Headspace will not affect feeding - but it can affect the final lock-up.

There is nothing about 0.004" that has any meaning.

Neck size until you have lock-up problems, and then move the headspace back 0.001" at a time until there is no lock-up drag. Then lock the die setting.



Let me clarify then. Get a hornady or Sinclair headspace gage so you can measure the fire formed brass. Use the fire formed brass as your chamber size and bump the shoulder back .004 from that chamber size.

If you don't bump it back enough it may fully close on your round but you will have one heck of a time manually opening the chamber. See the thread on mortaring your AR.

Let me clarify then.

A fired case does not give you the headspace - it may need several firings until it is "chamber length".

Only then, can you use it as a starting point - and if you size 0.004" shorter for each firing, you will have very short case life, cuz the cases will stretch 0.004" on each firing.

Five firings at 0.004" equal 0.020" stretch - very badd!

And Higgie, Dude... you know - I mean you KNOW - that you need to be using small base dies. Don'cha??

 
Originally Posted By: CatShooter

And Higgie, Dude... you know - I mean you KNOW - that you need to be using small base dies. Don'cha??



YEP. I locked my bolt up about 4-5 years ago and found out the hard way.
blushing.gif


I'm undoubtedly overworking my brass, but I always resize to factory specs every time I load. Last thing I want is a jam in the field. I'm getting 1/2" groups most of the time, so any more precision isn't necessary for my purposes.

I do neck size and take a few more pains for the bolt guns though.
 
Originally Posted By: CatShooterOriginally Posted By: SfsmedicOriginally Posted By: CatShooterOriginally Posted By: K_V_VHow much setback in headspace are you guys going for on your gas guns? I was planning on bumping the shoulder .001" but I also want them to cycle reliably. Not new to reloading, just new to reloading AR's. 223 Wylde chamber and standard rcbs dies btw.

Headspace will not affect feeding - but it can affect the final lock-up.

There is nothing about 0.004" that has any meaning.

Neck size until you have lock-up problems, and then move the headspace back 0.001" at a time until there is no lock-up drag. Then lock the die setting.



Let me clarify then. Get a hornady or Sinclair headspace gage so you can measure the fire formed brass. Use the fire formed brass as your chamber size and bump the shoulder back .004 from that chamber size.

If you don't bump it back enough it may fully close on your round but you will have one heck of a time manually opening the chamber. See the thread on mortaring your AR.

Let me clarify then.

A fired case does not give you the headspace - it may need several firings until it is "chamber length".

Only then, can you use it as a starting point - and if you size 0.004" shorter for each firing, you will have very short case life, cuz the cases will stretch 0.004" on each firing.

Five firings at 0.004" equal 0.020" stretch - very badd!

And Higgie, Dude... you know - I mean you KNOW - that you need to be using small base dies. Don'cha??



I disagree and an easy way to find out. Fire a few cases. Load them in the gun and then manually extract them. See if lock up isn't extremely tight.

I never said I bump back .004 each time. I said I bump .004 from chamber size. In my manual it says my chamber size for each gun and the desired shoulder measurement for that gun. That is how I achieve the measurement. If 8 loads on my 6.8 isn't a lot then I guess I'm happy. Because that's where I am and so far the brass is still fine.

My rifle has a 1.350 chamber size and I bump back to 1.346 which is where my Dillon tool head is now set up for that gun. I check it but never need to adjust. I am not measuring and readjusting every time. Because my chamber size doesn't change. I can check the brass on its 1st fire or 5th and it will be right at 1.350 after being fired from that gun.

Also five firings from 1.350 resized to 1.346 each time equals .004 each time it's not accumulated math. These are both bolt guns that get neck sized multiple times until the bolt is hard to operate than needs a .002 shoulder bump to start over. You have to bump them back or they will not get proper lock up and then the firing pin might just go tap instead of bang and you will be wrestling it trying to get it to come unlocked to load a different round.

The most common issue we see with ARs is people not bumping the shoulder back far enough on their resized brass and then wondering why they can't manually extract the unfired round.

This is addressed in Dave Brennan's book Precision Shooting: Reloading Guide and my technique I'm discussing is from his pages addressing shooting the AR

This is the tool I use to measure fired brass and determine chamber size. I measure several cases to determine initial length to test with on a new rifle. http://www.hornady.com/store/Headspace-Gauge-Kits/
 
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I'm not going to get in a argument with ANY of you guys because I doubt my experience is as vast as yours. But I'd almost wager that if you polled 100 AR15 reloaders, you'd find that 98% use standard sizing dies and not small base dies. And of that 98% you'd find that 99% have never had a problem. HOWEVER ... After I had a bad experience I have come to the conclusion that it's easier to avoid a problem than to fix one. My brass comes out of the gun with black streaks down it, and that's the way I like it.
 
I bet your right hidalgo. I have a set of standard redding fl dies for the 6.8 and then read that they were having issues with sizing them down enough (mine were fine) but my next set I bought was SB just to avoid the issue.
 
Originally Posted By: Sfsmedic
I disagree and an easy way to find out. Fire a few cases. Load them in the gun and then manually extract them. See if lock up isn't extremely tight.

I never said I bump back .004 each time. I said I bump .004 from chamber size.



That makes no sense... you either set your die to bump 0.004" or you don't - and if you do, then each time you size the case, you shove the shoulder back 0.004" - and each time you fire the case, you move the head back 0.004" - that is how cases loose their heads!

Quote:

Also five firings from 1.350 resized to 1.346 each time equals .004 each time it's not accumulated math.



Actually, it is - every time you push the shoulder back, the case gets shorter - when you fire it, the shouldeer does NOT move forward, the case stretched at the web.

Then you push the shoulder back, and then stretch the web... and on and on and on...!

These are both bolt guns that get neck sized multiple times until the bolt is hard to operate than needs a .002 shoulder bump to start over. You have to bump them back or they will not get proper lock up and then the firing pin might just go tap instead of bang and you will be wrestling it trying to get it to come unlocked to load a different round.

This is up there in the dumbest things said this week!!! You know doodley squat about this stuff.

Case crush is desirable in a bolt gun - and no way does it interfere with lock up... or cause a firing pin tap.

Quote:
This is addressed in Dave Brennan's book Precision Shooting: Reloading Guide and my technique I'm discussing is from his pages addressing shooting the AR



I briefly knew David Brennen - he lives about 5 miles from me - he is out of business for good reasons.

He once published that when a bullet goes below the speed of sound (~1085 fps) it turns 45 degrees down and flies to the ground (that was the end of our friendship). So, I am not impressed by your name dropping of the name David Brennen.


Quote:
This is the tool I use to measure fired brass and determine chamber size. I measure several cases to determine initial length to test with on a new rifle. http://www.hornady.com/store/Headspace-Gauge-Kits/

This tool has a built in error of 4 to 7 thou - I have two of them.

They first one was so inaccurate, that I bought a second, thing there was a problem wiht the first - but the same problem exisss with the second - some nit-wit at Hornady uses a counter sink and cuts a bevel on the touch surface of the syinder = which causes a shorter reading.

Get a "real" headspace gauge and measure it with your Hornady tool and it will measure shorter than the actual engraved numbers on the gauge.

Hey, Higgy... pay no attention to this load of cow poopie!!

tt2.gif
 
Originally Posted By: CatShooter

Hey, Higgy... pay no attention to this load of cow poopie!!

tt2.gif




I'm just gonna keep doin' what I been doin' with my small base dies and not fix what ain't broke. Like I said ... I don't know enough to spark a decent rebuttal.
blushing.gif
 
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