How many yotes do you lose using a .223?

Originally Posted By: IndependentSounds good. If I do stay with the .223 what is the most devastating factory load in .223 if I am not worried about pelt damage?


I started out chasing coyotes with a 223 savage 12 with Fiocci 40gr vmax factory rounds. They were like 50 rounds for 23.00 or so, and I never did lose a coyote with them... as a matter of fact I was amazed that they dumped those doggies so well... BUT.... I did hit them in the frontal half... lungs...shoulder.... chest... neck... just about anywhere in the front half, and they were DRT.

When shooters don't hit the frontal portion and lose dogs, they usually blame it on the bullet or caliber... something other than their marksmanship. Equipment can get a bad rap when shooting skills are the problem... and Boy O Boy... shooting skills can go hay wire quick when the action is hot with coyote fever. Most people shoot to quick... taking a rushed shot when it wasn't necessary... which can happen more often when your trying to get the first shot before your buddy does... that's why I believe a solo hunter will take more time for a more accurate shot.

I just noticed that Midway has them on sale for 22.49 for 50 rds.

https://www.midwayusa.com/product/183622...-max-ammunition
 
Never lost a coyote I hit with anything. Including 223, the last was 600 yards, amazed to see it DRT.

Thought with coyotes I don't mind overkill. Really liked the kills with a 325gr FTX from a ML, 110gr vmax from a 300WM (decapitation, saved the pelt!) and most recently a Texas heart shot with a 358 WSM.

I'm typically an opportunist with coyotes, meaning I'm over-gunned, so nobody wants the pelts when I'm done with them. Not a lot of people around here want the pelts, really not worth my while to mess with them in most cases though I do if I know I have someone lines up to take them. We are so over-populated it is simply vermin eradication.
 
I say to each his own. All of us hunt coyotes for different reasons. Pelt harvesting is a completely different endeavor than predator control. In predator control, you want them anchored and you don't care what they look like when it gets done. But for those who are harvesting pelts then it can be a bit more of a challenge to find the ideal combination of caliber and bullet.

Independent, if your goal is to become a better hunter, and it is legal, then there is nothing wrong with leaving them where they lay. We can hunt coyotes all year round. The pelts are junk during the summer so we do that a lot. Now, during the winter, if I get a good pelt, I have people who can use them in making arts and crafts, so I will harvest those. But if I blow a big hole in them, I don't feel bad. We are doing our part in the cycle. If we didn't, disease would spread, starvation would devastate the population as well as the populations of a lot of other animals along the way.

You do what your conscience tells you.
 
When I was first starting in this game a LONG time ago the fella that took me under his wing gave me some advice after I had missed my third coyote in a row by shooting too fast..."when the good Lord makes a coyote that can out-run a 3100 feet-per-second bullet then we got BIG trouble..until then just slow down and make your shots count." I have found that to be good advice whether I was shooting a rifle or a BB gun. Just my opinion.
 
It's always fun to read the posts, there are so many opinions out there. You could go anywhere with this discussion (as many have) I've used mostly 223 ARs to take most my coyotes over the years. Have also used 243 and a Grendel too. It's true about good shot placement, if you put any size, type or speed of torpedo into the engine room the coyote goes down but the fact is, there are times a bigger or faster bullet will put down a coyote more effectively than a 223 hit in the same spot.

Speed kills and a bigger heavier bullet will penetrate through areas a smaller slower bullet may not at times. I wish I were like some on this post who NEVER have placed a bad shot but I'm not. I've shot bad before and have lost some. Don't know Mr Garret but I like him and what he said. I also like that he declined to comment any more about the number of coyotes killed by some of the post participants. Enough said! I like it
 
As many have stated a properly placed bullet from a 223 will do the trick every time. With that said a properly placed bullet from something with more energy than a .223 will do the job that much better every time unless you consider a torn up hide not better in some cases. You can bet a bad hit with a .223 will result in more runners then something with a bigger faster bullet, thats just simple physics. I am in the occasional miss, occasional bad hit camp I like speed and power and flat coyotes along with the flattest trajectory I can get. I need a rifle that will pick up my slack.
 
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We lost four in one contest, cost us some serious money. We were using 55gr V-max and Remington AccuTips.

Now we use 6.8 SPC and have lost one with 110gr V-max, and none with 105gr MKZ.
 
I used to swear by the Vmax's. I don't know what has changed but I have noticed some of the same issues in the last few seasons. Not sure if they changed their recipe but I noticed Vmax's not really putting them down as hard as they used to. I have started running SP's and am liking the results.
 
Originally Posted By: varminter .223As many have stated a properly placed bullet from a 223 will do the trick every time. With that said a properly placed bullet from something with more energy than a .223 will do the job that much better every time unless you consider a torn up hide not better in some cases. You can bet a bad hit with a .223 will result in more runners then something with a bigger faster bullet, thats just simple physics. I am in the occasional miss, occasional bad hit camp I like speed and power and flat coyotes along with the flattest trajectory I can get. I need a rifle that will pick up my slack.

Yes this is true. I did not include a fur saving factor in my comments. I get focused on a certain thought and leave things that may be important to others out.
 
Originally Posted By: SnowmanMoI used to swear by the Vmax's. I don't know what has changed but I have noticed some of the same issues in the last few seasons. Not sure if they changed their recipe but I noticed Vmax's not really putting them down as hard as they used to. I have started running SP's and am liking the results.

I agree with this. I've shot the 65* Vmax through my 6 WOA's religiously for 8 years. The last batch I bought, probably 2 years ago, don't perform the way that they used to. The weight variation between them has grown also. This season I switched to the 70* Nosler and they have been all I could ask for.
 
Originally Posted By: SledgeOriginally Posted By: SnowmanMoI used to swear by the Vmax's. I don't know what has changed but I have noticed some of the same issues in the last few seasons. Not sure if they changed their recipe but I noticed Vmax's not really putting them down as hard as they used to. I have started running SP's and am liking the results.

I agree with this. I've shot the 65* Vmax through my 6 WOA's religiously for 8 years. The last batch I bought, probably 2 years ago, don't perform the way that they used to. The weight variation between them has grown also. This season I switched to the 70* Nosler and they have been all I could ask for.

Sledge which Nosler are you using, varmageddons or ballistic tips? I've used the bt's this year and had 1 bad blow out, otherwise not too bad on fur, roughly 3300 fps. I've been thinking about the varms since they are so much cheaper.
 
Originally Posted By: SledgeOriginally Posted By: SnowmanMoI used to swear by the Vmax's. I don't know what has changed but I have noticed some of the same issues in the last few seasons. Not sure if they changed their recipe but I noticed Vmax's not really putting them down as hard as they used to. I have started running SP's and am liking the results.

I agree with this. I've shot the 65* Vmax through my 6 WOA's religiously for 8 years. The last batch I bought, probably 2 years ago, don't perform the way that they used to. The weight variation between them has grown also. This season I switched to the 70* Nosler and they have been all I could ask for.

We saw some bad deviations in accuracy out of them too.
 
Originally Posted By: 204 AROriginally Posted By: SledgeOriginally Posted By: SnowmanMoI used to swear by the Vmax's. I don't know what has changed but I have noticed some of the same issues in the last few seasons. Not sure if they changed their recipe but I noticed Vmax's not really putting them down as hard as they used to. I have started running SP's and am liking the results.

I agree with this. I've shot the 65* Vmax through my 6 WOA's religiously for 8 years. The last batch I bought, probably 2 years ago, don't perform the way that they used to. The weight variation between them has grown also. This season I switched to the 70* Nosler and they have been all I could ask for.

Sledge which Nosler are you using, varmageddons or ballistic tips? I've used the bt's this year and had 1 bad blow out, otherwise not too bad on fur, roughly 3300 fps. I've been thinking about the varms since they are so much cheaper.

Yes, I'm using the Varmagedens now. I originally bought some NBT's, they group well but I haven't shot anything but paper with them. The way the Varms are working, I probably never will. I did weigh 20-30 of them, just out of curiosity, and they were very good if that concerns anyone but me.
 
I had about a 50% +/- ratio with my .223; I have shot 4 DRT (maybe 5) and lost 4. I use the R15 22" barrel with homemade 55gr VMAX. I've seen them drop then couldn't find them majority of the time. Could be due to the tall grass or brush that I never did recover them. Only a couple were runners that I remember with the R15 .223.
 
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