Tim Neitzke
New member
For a full run yote,a general rule of thumb is 1 full yote lead per 100 yards 90* to the shooter, while using a 3000-3500 fps round.
How much lead on a running coyote?
- Thread starter thechamp
- Start date
Varminterror
New member
Originally Posted By: Hunter GathererHow much air is in a paper bag?
I can't find paper bags big enough. I've converted to Hefty Lawn and Garden type bags.... Have been looking into bag silos of late...
I can't find paper bags big enough. I've converted to Hefty Lawn and Garden type bags.... Have been looking into bag silos of late...
Wallbass45
New member
Originally Posted By: thechampI'm used to bird hunting so I've got a decent grip on those leads but am finding it pretty difficult to hit running coyotes at 200-400 yards. I hit one the other night that was angling away from me at a trot at around 350 but on the ones that are running across in front of me I'm not having much luck. Using the 243 with the 55 grain ballistic tips at 3850 FPS according to Federal.
From what I read online they claim the coyotes can run approximately 30 MPH. I think mine are doing that and more... like a frigging streak!
Any ideas on possible lead distances are appreciate. Cause mine aren't getting the job done.
[beeep] I would have a little difficulty if it standing still!!
From what I read online they claim the coyotes can run approximately 30 MPH. I think mine are doing that and more... like a frigging streak!
Any ideas on possible lead distances are appreciate. Cause mine aren't getting the job done.
[beeep] I would have a little difficulty if it standing still!!
Originally Posted By: Wallbass45Originally Posted By: thechampI'm used to bird hunting so I've got a decent grip on those leads but am finding it pretty difficult to hit running coyotes at 200-400 yards. I hit one the other night that was angling away from me at a trot at around 350 but on the ones that are running across in front of me I'm not having much luck. Using the 243 with the 55 grain ballistic tips at 3850 FPS according to Federal.
From what I read online they claim the coyotes can run approximately 30 MPH. I think mine are doing that and more... like a frigging streak!
Any ideas on possible lead distances are appreciate. Cause mine aren't getting the job done.
[beeep] I would have a little difficulty if it standing still!!
Well.... I hate coyotes with a passion. They will be my 'targets' till I drop dead. Then I guess they'll win the big battle unless we can get enough young guys step it up! Since they removed the bounty out here the coyote population has exploded. BTW that's about 20 miles east of San Antonio, Tx.
I've hit a few on the run but not many. Most have been running away from me at an off angle and that shot is like someone said earlier, hold on the nose and let em have it. The bullet and their body will meet pretty quick. Had one a few years back that I shot with a 270 Win with 130 gr Nosler ballistic tips and it literally ripped the side of her body off. It was pretty nasty but she was quite dead. That was at a little over 200 yards. When I see guys write that they kill coyotes at 25-75 yards I shake my head cause ours just don't get that close. (Might be the deodorant, heck I don't know..)
I do like the one coyote length for every 100 yards. Obviously the math part leaves me bewildered but I can understand simple stuff - sometimes. We need a shotgun that works at 300 yards. Then we'd be kicking butt.
Not sure how to post pics but I'll try a few from the last few months. BTW the red carpenter square is to give folks an idea how big our coyotes are. I hang on another board which has a lot of guys from other parts of the world on it so they don't know if they're the size of a rabbit or a wolf. Speaking of which, this evening I was sitting in my office watching 2 young cottontails play next to the house. That's why when I retired I went back home to the farm. Nothing more peaceful than mother nature's critters at play.
From back in June. Don't recall where she/he was hit but it worked.
This one from Oct 20th. Standing sideways, upper shoulder shot.
Middle of December. Direct frontal hit. No exit and almost no blood on her.
From what I read online they claim the coyotes can run approximately 30 MPH. I think mine are doing that and more... like a frigging streak!
Any ideas on possible lead distances are appreciate. Cause mine aren't getting the job done.
[beeep] I would have a little difficulty if it standing still!!
Well.... I hate coyotes with a passion. They will be my 'targets' till I drop dead. Then I guess they'll win the big battle unless we can get enough young guys step it up! Since they removed the bounty out here the coyote population has exploded. BTW that's about 20 miles east of San Antonio, Tx.
I've hit a few on the run but not many. Most have been running away from me at an off angle and that shot is like someone said earlier, hold on the nose and let em have it. The bullet and their body will meet pretty quick. Had one a few years back that I shot with a 270 Win with 130 gr Nosler ballistic tips and it literally ripped the side of her body off. It was pretty nasty but she was quite dead. That was at a little over 200 yards. When I see guys write that they kill coyotes at 25-75 yards I shake my head cause ours just don't get that close. (Might be the deodorant, heck I don't know..)
I do like the one coyote length for every 100 yards. Obviously the math part leaves me bewildered but I can understand simple stuff - sometimes. We need a shotgun that works at 300 yards. Then we'd be kicking butt.
Not sure how to post pics but I'll try a few from the last few months. BTW the red carpenter square is to give folks an idea how big our coyotes are. I hang on another board which has a lot of guys from other parts of the world on it so they don't know if they're the size of a rabbit or a wolf. Speaking of which, this evening I was sitting in my office watching 2 young cottontails play next to the house. That's why when I retired I went back home to the farm. Nothing more peaceful than mother nature's critters at play.
From back in June. Don't recall where she/he was hit but it worked.
This one from Oct 20th. Standing sideways, upper shoulder shot.
Middle of December. Direct frontal hit. No exit and almost no blood on her.
Originally Posted By: Noveske CrusaderIn NWT I shot 16 arctic wolves, most on the run and after missing many others I quickly learnt that when they were running broadside full out to aim for the tip of the nose, something to pinpoint accurately .
Some of these shots as close as 100 yds. would often even hit the wolf 5' back.
The furthest lead I was successful on was a Wolf full out broadside at 1/3 of a mile!!
I got him with a 25 ft. lead with a 7 foot aim over......and still gut shot him with my .260 rem Ruger 77 ss. @ 2670 fps.
Aim for the tip of the nose...Aim small Miss small...
I'd have to say that hunting wolves would be a blast. Again a predator that brings so little in value and destroys so much. Yet people who live in the big city and are clueless think they're something special. (brainwashed by the liberal teachers...who haven't a clue either..) A really special idea would be to capture the wolves and turn them loose in the city and see how special they are then. But until then it sure would be fun to hunt them.
Curious if you guide for them or is this just something you do for fun?
Some of these shots as close as 100 yds. would often even hit the wolf 5' back.
The furthest lead I was successful on was a Wolf full out broadside at 1/3 of a mile!!
I got him with a 25 ft. lead with a 7 foot aim over......and still gut shot him with my .260 rem Ruger 77 ss. @ 2670 fps.
Aim for the tip of the nose...Aim small Miss small...
I'd have to say that hunting wolves would be a blast. Again a predator that brings so little in value and destroys so much. Yet people who live in the big city and are clueless think they're something special. (brainwashed by the liberal teachers...who haven't a clue either..) A really special idea would be to capture the wolves and turn them loose in the city and see how special they are then. But until then it sure would be fun to hunt them.
Curious if you guide for them or is this just something you do for fun?
calling4life
New member
Originally Posted By: VarminterrorOriginally Posted By: calling4lifeTo figure out lead, set a baseline. Coyote runs 30mph, which is ___ feet.
Your round travels at x fps, meaning it takes it y amount of time to get to the coyote. (dependant upon distance to coyote)
Now figure out how many feet the coyote will travel in that y amount of time.
30mph = 20.45fps, ok, part one, CHECK!
Part 2, round travels at "x fps", 600yrds (1800ft) at 2670fps = 0.67sec.
20.45fps running x 0.67sec bullet time of flight = 13.8ft of lead. Yay, problem solved....
But wait, it's a little more complicated than "your round travels at x fps, meaning it takes y amount of time to get to the coyote"...
2670fps at the muzzle out of a .260rem, I'm assuming means a 140grn bullet, somewhere in the upper 0.5's... by 600yrds it'll be down around 1800-1850fps, total time of flight somewhere around 0.82sec, instead of 0.67sec.
0.82sec x 20.45fps = 16.8ft of lead. Pretty big discrepancy.
Moral of the story, garbage in, garbage out.
How much time do you really have to quickly check your dope card, assume a releative speed of the coyote, figure the azimuth of retreat, estimate the range, then accurately estimate your hold over displacements? Have you ever heard of anyone calculating the proper lead for a 12ga on a pheasant? You go shoot bluerock and practice.
Moral of the story, practice is worth a lot more than calculation.
You're assuming I meant muzzle velocity...
My point also wasn't to give an exact formula/answer, just to display there is a way to get the answer he seeks, I'm not here to do his work, he can, knowledge earned vs. given... Bla bla bla
Next, remember it, dope cards should be used as a backup for when you forget, or when stress has you blanking.
Next, no idea what bluerock is. Never known anyone that has 30mph movers set up over several hundred yards.
It is just to get a base, practice and instincts are valuable in all situations, but because I don't have a several hundred yard range with movers, I need something to give me a reasonable POA.
I've waterfowl hunted for 17+ years, I attribute my success on moving coyotes to it, no, I don't calculate exact lead in real time, but I'm not above admitting that if I knew I needed 6ft, it would help me to kill the bird.
My next scope is FFP with the horus h59, I paid for the tech, why not calculate leads on a running dog? Gotta get my drop and wind data anyway, sure, practicing on movers everyday would help, just don't have a legal range to do it, I can however do the calculations.
So just like remembering 600yds is 5 mil of drop, I can also remember it's a 10 mil lead. It takes a split second to assign a value outside of the calculated number, half speed trot= 5 mil, quartering= 5 mil, 578yds= 9.5 mils. May not be as exact, but again, at least I'd have something to go off of.
But maybe I'm the only one without access to a several hundred yard range with movers...
Your round travels at x fps, meaning it takes it y amount of time to get to the coyote. (dependant upon distance to coyote)
Now figure out how many feet the coyote will travel in that y amount of time.
30mph = 20.45fps, ok, part one, CHECK!
Part 2, round travels at "x fps", 600yrds (1800ft) at 2670fps = 0.67sec.
20.45fps running x 0.67sec bullet time of flight = 13.8ft of lead. Yay, problem solved....
But wait, it's a little more complicated than "your round travels at x fps, meaning it takes y amount of time to get to the coyote"...
2670fps at the muzzle out of a .260rem, I'm assuming means a 140grn bullet, somewhere in the upper 0.5's... by 600yrds it'll be down around 1800-1850fps, total time of flight somewhere around 0.82sec, instead of 0.67sec.
0.82sec x 20.45fps = 16.8ft of lead. Pretty big discrepancy.
Moral of the story, garbage in, garbage out.
How much time do you really have to quickly check your dope card, assume a releative speed of the coyote, figure the azimuth of retreat, estimate the range, then accurately estimate your hold over displacements? Have you ever heard of anyone calculating the proper lead for a 12ga on a pheasant? You go shoot bluerock and practice.
Moral of the story, practice is worth a lot more than calculation.
You're assuming I meant muzzle velocity...
My point also wasn't to give an exact formula/answer, just to display there is a way to get the answer he seeks, I'm not here to do his work, he can, knowledge earned vs. given... Bla bla bla
Next, remember it, dope cards should be used as a backup for when you forget, or when stress has you blanking.
Next, no idea what bluerock is. Never known anyone that has 30mph movers set up over several hundred yards.
It is just to get a base, practice and instincts are valuable in all situations, but because I don't have a several hundred yard range with movers, I need something to give me a reasonable POA.
I've waterfowl hunted for 17+ years, I attribute my success on moving coyotes to it, no, I don't calculate exact lead in real time, but I'm not above admitting that if I knew I needed 6ft, it would help me to kill the bird.
My next scope is FFP with the horus h59, I paid for the tech, why not calculate leads on a running dog? Gotta get my drop and wind data anyway, sure, practicing on movers everyday would help, just don't have a legal range to do it, I can however do the calculations.
So just like remembering 600yds is 5 mil of drop, I can also remember it's a 10 mil lead. It takes a split second to assign a value outside of the calculated number, half speed trot= 5 mil, quartering= 5 mil, 578yds= 9.5 mils. May not be as exact, but again, at least I'd have something to go off of.
But maybe I'm the only one without access to a several hundred yard range with movers...
dan brothers
New member
What if the wind was blowing at 17 mph from the NE... and the coyote was running SW at 23 mph...at 456 yds... with the same rifle and load...?
All I can say is.... will a 17 HMR kill a coyote...?
All I can say is.... will a 17 HMR kill a coyote...?
Varminterror
New member
C4L:
I don't assume you meant anything. Wasn't even really directing my post at you, only meant to expand upon what you posted. My point was that it's easy to botch the job on calculations, and that as your post obviously agrees, practice is where long field shots are born.
I agree with and am fully aware of how to utilize rangecards, didn't need the dissertation or the pissing contest, my point was that the practice is the key. Too many guys tape the trajectory chart from the back of the box of ammo to their scope flip cap and go afield (not saying this includes you, nor did my first post) and assume it's going to be accurate.
Frankly, whenever I read anything about "simple calcs" for shooting, I think of my brother in law. Figuring ToF is easy, but it's easy to mess up, and for what it's worth, my brother in law reads stuff like that online, doesn't know the whole story, then throws shots 600 yrds at a deer. Prime example, the guy borrowed my rifle for a while, then wanted a batch of ammo from me. Next time I saw him he had my range card taped to his stock. Problem is my rifle is 24" and his is 16"...
Guarantee if my brother in law read your first post, he's going to screw up on ToF and jack up the lead. Do I care if he misses dogs? Not really. Do I wanna see him gut shoot some coyotes or deer? Not really. Putting too much into in that kid's hands is all too seriously making him "know just enough to be dangerous".
I don't assume you meant anything. Wasn't even really directing my post at you, only meant to expand upon what you posted. My point was that it's easy to botch the job on calculations, and that as your post obviously agrees, practice is where long field shots are born.
I agree with and am fully aware of how to utilize rangecards, didn't need the dissertation or the pissing contest, my point was that the practice is the key. Too many guys tape the trajectory chart from the back of the box of ammo to their scope flip cap and go afield (not saying this includes you, nor did my first post) and assume it's going to be accurate.
Frankly, whenever I read anything about "simple calcs" for shooting, I think of my brother in law. Figuring ToF is easy, but it's easy to mess up, and for what it's worth, my brother in law reads stuff like that online, doesn't know the whole story, then throws shots 600 yrds at a deer. Prime example, the guy borrowed my rifle for a while, then wanted a batch of ammo from me. Next time I saw him he had my range card taped to his stock. Problem is my rifle is 24" and his is 16"...
Guarantee if my brother in law read your first post, he's going to screw up on ToF and jack up the lead. Do I care if he misses dogs? Not really. Do I wanna see him gut shoot some coyotes or deer? Not really. Putting too much into in that kid's hands is all too seriously making him "know just enough to be dangerous".
calling4life
New member
I agree, simple is seldom simple for many, the willfully ignorant are everywhere, present company included.
I've been guilty of it, sure I will be guilty of it again, but hopefully a guy learns something in the process.
I've got a new weapon system to continue researching, I'll leave this to the rest.
I've been guilty of it, sure I will be guilty of it again, but hopefully a guy learns something in the process.
I've got a new weapon system to continue researching, I'll leave this to the rest.
Noveske Crusader
New member
The kill shot was my third shot.
The first 2 were aimed on the tip of the nose and both shots showed snow splashes at what I estimated to be 25' back , 7' down......so on the 3rd shot I compensated accordingly....and the shot was a hit.
30 mph for running wolf......try again.. I've chased them at close to 50 mph and they can keep that speed for a loooong way...
That shot was taken on small lake at Drybones hill on the ICE ROAD to BHP, N.W.T. diamond mine, witnessed by partner Mike Williams of Whitehorse, Yukon.
Why so many running shots.....it is almost always -35 to -45 degrees on the ice roads, you cannot set blinds, stalk etc....the only method of hunting is truck hunting and sometimes snowmobile hunting .
I'd like to see you there J.Glynn sitting in a blind -45 below , snow machine track is frozen solid and so stiff it won't turn over, truck doorhandles break in your hands from the bitter cold, frost bite all over your face, glasses stuck to your nose and when you remove them the skin stays attached and your face is covered in blood,the air is so cold when you breath it feels like glass chards in your throat.......you have no idea mr. South Oklahoma...you call B.S....look at my avatar....that's a lot of b.s. on that wall buddy....
And most of the times they run when they see you, if you wait for a standing still shot like you see on hunting shows you won't get any.
The first 2 were aimed on the tip of the nose and both shots showed snow splashes at what I estimated to be 25' back , 7' down......so on the 3rd shot I compensated accordingly....and the shot was a hit.
30 mph for running wolf......try again.. I've chased them at close to 50 mph and they can keep that speed for a loooong way...
That shot was taken on small lake at Drybones hill on the ICE ROAD to BHP, N.W.T. diamond mine, witnessed by partner Mike Williams of Whitehorse, Yukon.
Why so many running shots.....it is almost always -35 to -45 degrees on the ice roads, you cannot set blinds, stalk etc....the only method of hunting is truck hunting and sometimes snowmobile hunting .
I'd like to see you there J.Glynn sitting in a blind -45 below , snow machine track is frozen solid and so stiff it won't turn over, truck doorhandles break in your hands from the bitter cold, frost bite all over your face, glasses stuck to your nose and when you remove them the skin stays attached and your face is covered in blood,the air is so cold when you breath it feels like glass chards in your throat.......you have no idea mr. South Oklahoma...you call B.S....look at my avatar....that's a lot of b.s. on that wall buddy....
And most of the times they run when they see you, if you wait for a standing still shot like you see on hunting shows you won't get any.
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Noveske Crusader
New member
Regardless of what non believes say.....try shooting for the tip of the nose when they are running full out broadside.....TRY IT then criticize...
Nashville_Caller
New member
My method to shoot a running coyote with a rifle is like shotgun wing shooting. I lead but I let my instinct determine how much. If the first shot is a miss, I tell myself to double the lead and fire. I've never hit a running coyote when I'm thinking about the exact lead. Although, when I use this shotgun mindset of lead, I do very well at folding them up.
I killed a running coyote at 140 yards the other day. After the shot, I tried to think about how much I lead, and all I can recall is that I was in front of fur. That's what I mean by instinct.
I killed a running coyote at 140 yards the other day. After the shot, I tried to think about how much I lead, and all I can recall is that I was in front of fur. That's what I mean by instinct.
Sounds good. I really do try to get them standing but for some reason they don't always cooperate... When you say holding on the nose I assume you're also meaning to continue to swing with the dog as he's running?
When I learned to shoot a shotgun on skeet there were two rules of thought. One was that you basically held xx in front of the clay at each station. Then I met some of the US Air Force team and they said to forget 'measuring' the lead and come from behind the bird and swing through it pulling the trigger when you cover the bird. Key being to keep swinging though. I had a hard time getting that in my technique but do believe it was easier once you got it down.
Doubleup - As to setting up lights on AC that's not always possible due to the location. Most of these places will have to be battery/solar setups. Working on building one system right now that I hope will pay off. Also think that with the way these coyotes go to people's homes to kill cats, dogs, etc., that a light that's on all the time won't bother them as long as there's food to be had. Hungry bellies make all species do things that their brain sometimes tells them isn't a good idea.
When I learned to shoot a shotgun on skeet there were two rules of thought. One was that you basically held xx in front of the clay at each station. Then I met some of the US Air Force team and they said to forget 'measuring' the lead and come from behind the bird and swing through it pulling the trigger when you cover the bird. Key being to keep swinging though. I had a hard time getting that in my technique but do believe it was easier once you got it down.
Doubleup - As to setting up lights on AC that's not always possible due to the location. Most of these places will have to be battery/solar setups. Working on building one system right now that I hope will pay off. Also think that with the way these coyotes go to people's homes to kill cats, dogs, etc., that a light that's on all the time won't bother them as long as there's food to be had. Hungry bellies make all species do things that their brain sometimes tells them isn't a good idea.
TripleDeuce660
Active member
You guys are crazy! I have hit one at 125 yards full run at 90 degrees but I think it was luck. To hit one at 400 yards running is crazy!
Originally Posted By: TripleDeuce660You guys are crazy! I have hit one at 125 yards full run at 90 degrees but I think it was luck. To hit one at 400 yards running is crazy!
I don't think anyone is disputing that opinion. However if you really want to kill them and that is all they give you? Don't doubt for a minute that anyone doing those shots will miss much more often than not but it's a heck of feeling when you see them cartwheeling through the air. The reason I asked here is because I figured I wasn't the only person who had tried and hadn't had much luck. Thus ask the guys who have done it for a long time. Your own experience is very good but if you can pick up pointers from others that have done this and had luck your odds have to improve.
The issue of speed is no doubt a big one. I suspect I'd been leading some too far not taking into the account the speed of the load. Now if we could just double or triple their size the odds would get better!
I don't think anyone is disputing that opinion. However if you really want to kill them and that is all they give you? Don't doubt for a minute that anyone doing those shots will miss much more often than not but it's a heck of feeling when you see them cartwheeling through the air. The reason I asked here is because I figured I wasn't the only person who had tried and hadn't had much luck. Thus ask the guys who have done it for a long time. Your own experience is very good but if you can pick up pointers from others that have done this and had luck your odds have to improve.
The issue of speed is no doubt a big one. I suspect I'd been leading some too far not taking into the account the speed of the load. Now if we could just double or triple their size the odds would get better!