How to reduce 223 recoil...? Wanting to watch impact....!

Originally Posted By: dan brothersThat makes good sense. How does the recoil pad look on my gun....?


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For me I would need to grind the toe a little to make it stick out as far as the center of the pad. The top edge will then protrude further then the bottom. The will move the point of rotation up close to the bore, and reduce the barrel rise.

For YOU it might be ok. It depends on the shape of the shoulder, and chest.


There should be about 1" of pad or slightly less sticking up past the collar bone making the heal level with the top of the shoulder. You want it to rotate on the collar bone during recoil.The toe only needs to make enough contact to prevent the gun from canting during quick handling. You will never completely eliminate the muzzle rise unless your shoulder was in prefect line with the bore. You see AR's with stocks that line your shoudler up with the bore to reduce muzzle rise at the cost of having the scope way above the barrel. Makes sense on semi and full auto guns for follow up. Pointless for a bolt action.

Anways..... So when you pull the gun in firm does it want to rotate up? Is it feeling natural with the barrel pointing way up? You want it to feel natural when the barrel is parrallel to the ground. You don't want it the muzzle have a tendancy to go up or down. Does the pointy toe dig into your chest and there is little or no contact at the top of the pad when the gun is parallel to the ground? If you answering yes to these questions then you should think about the pitch.

Notice too if you lean forward more you can offset the problem but its better to have a pretty upright position and barely be leaning into it. That will make your neck happier after a long day of shooting and make it more natural in a quick hunting situation.

These guys on here are mostly rifle shooters I believe. Never heard of anyone considering fit for a rifle. Some of the fancy dangerous game guns from england they fit the stock to you but thats about it.

I find that most guns off the shelf , for me, want to point up dramaticaly like 45 degrees.

Take out the top screw, loosen the bottom a little. Put about 1/4 thick spacer under the top part I use washers. Tighten it up. Give it a firm pull. Is it still wanting to rise up or is it less? I found even with changing the pitch I still need to round off the toe.

Another tell tell sign.. when you lower the gun from your shoulder does the toe tend to snag your shirt?

A really awesome book is rollin oswald stock fitters bible. check it out. If you shoot any large calibers gun fit could really help your felt recoil.


I will take a PIC in a minute to illustrate it better.
 
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Originally Posted By: LWILLIAMSLearn how to shoot properly and you can spot your hits. I have no problem spotting hits with a 168gr 308 loads of 115gr 243 loads or 75gr 223ai loads. If off bipods learn how to load them, if prone learn how to postion yourself correctly behind your rifle.

What he said. If your rifle hops left you are leaning too much right and vice versa. The rifle wants to come straight back, you're making it jump off target. I too was a victim of this, proper instruction has helped me see it is possible. I'm still trying to get the bad habits removed, but I am improving. Nothing like seeing the red mist on a groundhog at less than 100yds with a 70gr. Nosler running 3450fps from a 243 at a full 24X
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. I've seen a guy watch his hits from a dangerous game rifle in 416 I beleive. It is all about recoil management and being squared to the rifle from nose to toes. Watch this.
Bipods don't hop.
 
Heavier stock will help you. I installed a Bell & Carlson Medalist M40 style stock on my Remington 700 SPS Varmint 223rem. Stock has the aluminuim bedding block and I skimed bedded it. I am shooting handloading a 50gr. V-max traveling 3432fps. I can see the hits.
 
WOW... this is all some good information...

When I put the gun to my shoulder... it seems to fit okay... but tomorrow i'll shoot it off handed to see what it does. I've been shooting it at critters and not really paying any attention as to what direction it jumps... improving the recoil pad would be an easy fix.

I like the bipod idea... but I'm never at a bench or prone... usually sitting under a tree or from a treestand... i guess a bipod with extra long legs would be the ticket.

I don't really want to hunt with ear plugs...use to do that with a 7-30 waters with a cuts on the barrel... my ears still ring from that... hated it... that TC barrel is up for sale right now on gunbroker... along with 21 boxes of ammo...

My glass is 40 mm... could go bigger...wanting too anyways...

I need to test my 40 grainers to see how they do with recoil...

All of this sure has me thinking... thanks so much Guys...

Anymore advice...?
 
Originally Posted By: 2muchgunA brake that does not increase noise level has yet to be invented......

A brake doesnt "increase" noise....the noise is a constant. It does however, redirect the sound back toward the shooter rather than downrange.

I know what you meant though..lol;)
 
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Both bores are parallel to the ground roughly

Top gun the stock has been cut to 5 degrees of pitch. I also used a file on the last 1/2"of the toe to round it off. Gun recoils straight back for me now.

Bottom gun you can see where I marked with a pencil where I might try grinding the point off. The angle looks just about right if only the face of the pad was flat. I may just have a flat faced pad installed eventualy.

If your gun is pokeing you with that toe it 100% going to increase the barrel rise.

If the pad makes even contact and rotates on your collar bone 1" below top of pad(closer to the bore in effect making a shorter lever by bringing the folcrum(sp?) closer to the bore.)Its going to reduce barrel rise dramaticaly.

You may be able to solve your problem with a file and sand paper or a belt sander. A few minutes in the garage. Depends on the pad design some are hallow you can't grind it.Just trying to save you money. or a new pad all together, but that will be like 75 bucks installed.

I also thought of this because a varmint weight gun I would think you would see the hits so I thought maybe something else is going on.
 
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I bought this gun second hand... and i think that owner must have put a special recoil pad on it, because it's really soft and spongy... it feels wonderful... but i can see how the lower toe can be in the way... allowing for recoil rise.

Those recoil tubes sound interesting as well...
 
I can pull the forearm down into the bipod on my Kimber Montana .223 and seen my shots hit with my 3.5-10 VX3 set to 10x. I also have a suppressor on my ar's and it works about the same as a break.

As for the Vais not being any louder then without it. I call B.S. As stated might not have more DB's but it will sure as [beeep] ring your ears for a few days.

I have to be really carefull any more with loud noises. Working in the engine room too long, but doesn't take much to be painfull anymore. I had a 30-06 with a Vais and it was painfull with electronic muffs. A regular AR will still ring my ears with muffs too though.
 
The op needs to really know what he's after. People are talking about two different things. You can "see" hits to some degree with most anything. It's not hard to "see" hits with a .223. Then there's SEEING hits. Kind of like on a television screen....with a 223 you zoom to 24 or 32X, the target is big, see the hit up close and the picture won't move. Muzzle rise keeps that from happening. Stock shape or knowing how to shoot aren't gonna keep the muzzle down. That's what brakes do. Someone doesn't like brakes it's their choice. But they haven't experienced how much fun it can really be shooting gophers. Dan needs to decide how serious he is about this stuff.
 
If shooting of a bench there is no problem with using a brake. I do have some rifles that have them. BUT hunting is a different story. If you are going afield with a brake you NEED to wear hearing protection, which the OP is not interested in. Thats ok I cannot use hearing protection while hunting either. So I cannot brake anything I plan on hunting with.
 
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"Thats ok I cannot use hearing protection while hunting either."
That's fine as long as you realize that you will go slowly (or not so slowly with the big boomers) deaf. We know better today. You can hunt without loosing your hearing. You just must use hearing protection for every shot even a 22LR. That constant ringing in the ears that follows also is not fun.

Jack
 
My ears are constantly ringing. between construction, music, and guns it sucks. I always wear protection now but the ringing hasn't stopped and probably never will.
 
Great post guys. I had the same problem last year shooting Pdogs with my AR in .223. It's a bull barrel but I still couldn't see my hits(or misses) most times. I could see movement, but the muzzle jump was just enough to lose my sight picture. I also have a theory that the bolt cycling back also contributes to this movement. My solution was to go to a bolt gun with a heavier stock. I'm also playing with lighter loads with 40 gr, as opposed to the 55 gn. I'm hoping this will help also.
 
You might want to consider one of the brakes that Mike Mili (DTech) has designed and builds, as long as you don't shoot at night...I had him put one on my .223 slow twist, 20 inch barrel and it did help with the muzzle rise and didn't increase the noise level that I could tell...

The only ports are on the top and they help hold the muzzle down...another option that I'm currently trying on another is the Levang type where the gasses are blown forward... I just installed one on a 16" barrel and while I haven't shot it enough to really make a determination, I'm not getting a lot of noise increase, as a shooter, either..but then I wear a pretty healthy amount of hearing protection...due to the damage that I've accumulated...
 
Originally Posted By: Jack Roberts"Thats ok I cannot use hearing protection while hunting either."
That's fine as long as you realize that you will go slowly (or not so slowly with the big boomers) deaf. We know better today. You can hunt without loosing your hearing. You just must use hearing protection for every shot even a 22LR. That constant ringing in the ears that follows also is not fun.

Jack

AAC is my friend. I just hope that the legislature changes so we can hunt non sporting game at lease suppressed.
 
Originally Posted By: Jack Roberts[BThat constant ringing in the ears that follows also is not fun.

Jack

Very true. I sometimes think I am going nuts from listening to it all the time. Wish I would have known better. Mine is more from running a circular saw in my construction days.
 
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