How young it too young to take you pup out coyote hunting?

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frankr

New member
Got a newer pup ~16 weeks and have been wanting to take her out coyote hunting just to get her used to sitting close by and see what's going on. But I haven't wanted to take her if she was too small and ruin her. (she won't be hunting at all and close to me)

I was curious at what age you guys take your pups out with you?

Does is vary if you are taking you dog with another trained dog?

Thanks
 
whatever ya do, make sure you have CONTROL of her! Either tethered by check cord, or reliably honoring some type of call back command (verbal, or e-collar). The key is to keep a young dog out of harm's way!

Also, make sure your little gal has been somewhat desensitized to gunfire! The last thing you want to do is spark a round off and scare the livin' beejeezz outta your young prospect!

Those first associations & learning experiences are ohhhh sooooo importante when training any dog to perform any task!

Keep stuff fun, and above all SAFE for your pup!!!

first stand I took my pup on our season's opener, we got lucky and had a taker. Pup was 14 weeks old and already knew what the 'tone' meant, so I felt I could protect him with the rifle on an open stand setting. Pup didn't even know a coyote was there, but he put 2+2 together pretty quick after the shot. Most important, his first stand encounter was a +++ and he got some fur in his mouth...
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good luck & be safe, the both of ya!!!
 
Knockem - Thanks for the advice and cool picture! She would be tethered next too me for sure as I don't want her getting bit as small as she is.

As for gun shots. I plan on introducing her this weekend (if I can get away from the in-law family reunion
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) and luckily I live in a state where I can and do hunt with a suppressor which really take out the noise for the dog!

Hopefully I can get something to happen, but more than likely she is going to learn all about sitting and waiting while it's hot!
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Thanks, I'll never forget that day! Kilt one the next morning too, but I left the pup at the house for that stand since it was just too tight cover to keep him from getting sacked...
As for suppressors, all I can say is: "LUCKY YOU!!!"
Still might be a good idea to start out with .22shorts/subsonics. If you can add some type of furry reward after the shots, all the better! It don't take long for a gamey pup to start looking for some fur to wool when a gun goes boom...
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So, instead of the rifle crack inducing a fear or panic reaction, it will signal that its time for puppy to go find the fur! So easy, even an idiot like me can manage that logic
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There are prolly as many ways to train your dog as there are guys with dogs to train. Add in the fact that we all expect different things from our dogs, and they all develop at their own genetically predisposed pace, there really are no hard & fast rules. Just remember the basics for training ANY dog:
START SLOW & let the pup be a pup! Stay in tune with how she is progressing. Use your good sense to provide challenges for her, and try your best to give her EVERY opportunity to succeed!!! And the bond YOU make with YOUR dog during this time is something that cannot be overstated...
If you expect too much, too soon, or give your pup challenges that it can't easily accomplish, then you are setting the stage for failure, frustration, or worse...flat our ruining your dog before it ever really had a chance!

Build your little gal up slow & steady. If she proves worthy of her feed, those foundational lessons will pay you back tenfold in happiness as you watch her grow into a fine companion...

Good luck & keep it fun!!!
 
I think taking pups to young, and teaching them to stay close, ruins them. If they learn to stay close at a young age, they never want to range. I want dogs to range, I don't take pups on calling stands until they can safely range, the last thing I wanna do is teach them to lay by me when I'm callin. 6 months is a good age with an older dog, or 8 months alone. Not that my way is the best way or only way, but works for me.
 
The more you take them at an early age, the better they will pick up the trait you are trying to teach them. The first 6 months should be fun only, don't expect too much from them, and keep a close eye.

I run deer dogs, and the first season is just about getting them out on the hunts and around as many dead or crippled deer as possible. The second year and beyond is where the expectations start for me.

The range question is one that I don't have an answer to fix. It seems like a dog will either range or wont. I think range is based on the confidence the dog has in itself. Dogs that are timid seem to want to keep their owner in sight at all times for protection. I think the best thing you can do is not let your dog get in a situation too early in life where it feels like it is really threatened. Once the confidence comes it will start stretching out it's comfort zone.
 
Norcal, I'll disagree, I can teach any long ranging pup to stay close. just take them to the feild, and everytime they get out of site shock them. They learn real fast to stay close.It's way easier to make a close ranging dog, than a long ranging dog.Most dogs by breeding want to range, and are ruined by handlers that are scared that the dog will get hurt.They tone or shock the dogs to much.
 
Originally Posted By: Duane@ssuIt's way easier to make a close ranging dog, than a long ranging dog

Agreed. I got this same good advice from this same source when I started Tucker. Only because I got this advice I bit my lip, turned off my transmitter and let her range. Sure glad I did.

If you think about it it's a bit like "trying to shoot pool with a rope."
 
Originally Posted By: NorcalkyleThe more you take them at an early age, the better they will pick up the trait you are trying to teach them. The first 6 months should be fun only, don't expect too much from them, and keep a close eye.

I run deer dogs, and the first season is just about getting them out on the hunts and around as many dead or crippled deer as possible. The second year and beyond is where the expectations start for me.

The range question is one that I don't have an answer to fix. It seems like a dog will either range or wont. I think range is based on the confidence the dog has in itself. Dogs that are timid seem to want to keep their owner in sight at all times for protection. I think the best thing you can do is not let your dog get in a situation too early in life where it feels like it is really threatened. Once the confidence comes it will start stretching out it's comfort zone.

Agree!

A dog will explore, by nature, or it won't.
Bold puppies will range further, sooner, than the shy ones. Waiting a certain amount of months, or keeping a puppy close will not make a bold puppy any less bold. Nor will it quell it's desire to explore. If anything, you'll be building that pup's confidence by KEEPING IT SAFE. Would you guys recommend letting puppy run free & chase a kitty across a busy street so that its 'hunting instinct' isn't impeded? Of course not! The potential risk is not worth the training lesson...

Keeping puppy SAFE is 100% PRIORITY #1 on stand, IMHO. To me, that means keeping puppy CLOSE to you, and to where you can reliably recall from getting too far from you.
If an older pup won't range, it won't be because you kept it too close to you as a young pup. It's because that particular puppy just might not have much drive to hunt in the first place, nor possess the outgoing/bold/explorative personality that is needed to make a hunting dog.

Lets face it, most guys trying decoy dogs are using dogs from various hunting lines. Safe to say, these pups are gonna wanna GO HUNT! However, if those gamey traits result in puppy getting rolled/wrecked on stand by a coyote too early in their developmental stage, then I feel it is the handler who screwed up by letting puppy get in that position in the first place! Puppy will NEVER forget about taking that azz whoopin'. From that point, forward, that single traumatic negative interaction will be THE determining factor in what kinda of hunting dog it will turn out to be as an adult...

Keep your pup close & keep it safe.
If it won't range later in life, likely it never was much of a dog in the first place...








 
Make a pup stay close, you will have a better decoy dog because of it. A dog that ranges will cost you more coyotes than it brings in. Save you a lot of work later.
 
Originally Posted By: btech29Make a pup stay close, you will have a better decoy dog because of it. A dog that ranges will cost you more coyotes than it brings in. Save you a lot of work later.

In the country that you and I hunt, I agree. With that said, I do not have the decoy dog experience that others here have. But I love the way havoc stays with me and pays attention to what I am doing as well as keep an eye on the area without being preoccupied with exploring.
 
Hand call -vs - eCaller
Bolt gun -vs- AR
Bipod -vs Shooting sticks
Scent control -vs- No scent control
Camouflage -vs- No camo
Call continuous -vs- Intermittent
Low volume -vs- Full volume

Every predator caller is different and has his own personal preferences. Every dog is different and has their own personal style. There is no wrong or right answer. It's a personal preference.

Gunner is a close range dog. Heck, he sits right next to me and watches the stand intently. I've never toned or shocked him to get him that way. Has he always been that way....No. He used to range out when he was younger in his career, but he finally realized where the action goes down and came into his own style. Do I get frustrated at him at times....Heck yeah. But, that's his style and there is no changing it. I've got other dogs that have a totally different style, but yall can see which dog I take on stands and the success rate is inarguable. Do I have all the answers....Heck no. I'm learning as I am going, but I do spend 300+ days a year on stands, with a dog or two next to me. Again, it's a personal preference.

I'll be doing a segment on this topic on an episode of my show.

Tony
 
I agree with Duane and Craig on this one. In the country I hunt in, I want my dogs out there ranging. I disagree with keeping them close as pups and then "if they're much of a dog " they will range later in life. In my little experience that makes no sense. It's really easy to take the hunt drive out of a dog while it's a lot harder to put it back in. Close vs. long range, neither is right or wrong. I wouldn't take the pup out too young, let him be a puppy and use this time to get a good handle on him.
 
To each his own. If you buy the food and do all the work then you can do whatever you want with your dog. It dont matter what anyone else thinks. Like Tony said, its just personal preference.

I do have a serious question. I just started working with a dog that ranges way out there. Im fixing to correct the problem and make him sit beside me. Can someone tell me why ranging is helpful on a calling stand? How does that make me kill more coyotes?
 
I'd like to know the definition of "ranging". Is that where the dog is out exploring and not paying attention, or is that a dog that is actively out looking for coyotes?

Forgive my ignorance on that. I just would like to make sure I know what the term should mean. (I'm guessing it means different things for different people.)



 
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jeff, this is the way i see but that dont count for much, but here goes. i like a dog that will range out some, it dont have to be 2 miles but i like one to go out to 500 or 600 yds if they need to, i have had coyotes follow the dogs back that i really think would have never broke cover if the dogs hadnt went that far, there are coyotes that hang up and never come, i have them and so does everyone else whether you know it or not. i think a ranging dog helps on these and i believe a coyote gets more alert the closer he gets the the sound he is coming to, if he picks the dog up at 5 or 6 hundred yds then he's not thinking about you or trying to get down wind, he's thinking about the dog and thats it. not all of mine will range out like i like them to, heck none of mine are doing it the way i want them to, but i have one here right now thats fitting the bill better for me everytime out, but on the other hand i dont think most guys on here would like her at all. she ranges, she will bark at a coyote to get it to turn but then she screams all the way back to keep from having to fight, but will fight a cripple till they both wear out. her sister on the other hand just wants to stand and fight one, hard to get a coyote back if the dog aint coming back, so she dont go much. but back to the question, if they are ranging out then they are picking those coyotes up before they get to me, if the coyote is at 100 yds when he see the dog sitting beside me, then i could have probably already killed that coyote, its the ones that hang up in the brush that i have trouble killing. all that said, it hardly ever comes together like i want it to but thats what works for me
 
Chris, we are talking about a dog out running around "looking for a coyote" while you are calling.

Ryan, I see your logic. Here's the problem as I see it. Sure a dog might get one to break cover, but it also might keep one from breaking cover. I would rather take my chances on calling them in close before the dog engages. At this point at least I have a chance at killing them. I think a ranging dog is especially detrimental in the fall.

Here's what I see with a ranging dog that I dont like. I call one in from my right, it comes right in to the call on a string. My dog is over to my left a hundred yards eating a cow pie. This makes me one unhappy camper.

I dont know much, just my opinion.
 
I see, but when I had Doc, the only thing he ever "Found" was anything other than coyotes. On one occasion he found an armadillo and went to hollering and before he knew it, 4 coyotes had done knocked him to the ground on a dead run. That was a fur pile I don't want happening. It took them less than 3 seconds to break the cover of the treeline and have him on the ground with all 4 taking bites. He never knew they were around. If that is ranging, I don't want it.

Most of the areas that I hunt alone are less than 60-100 acres and there are trees on all sides. So it is pretty difficult to have any range to begin with. When Jack and I go out to the crop fields, then ranging can work, but just having the dog out near the call seems to do the same.


On the flip side, taking Havoc out today, he didn't miss a thing. If I moved my rifle, he went ready and focused that way. Very well trained dog and he added a second coyote to the pile today because of it. Very glad to have him.

Soon as I can get the video sorted from the gopro, I will have the story posted.




 
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