How young it too young to take you pup out coyote hunting?

first if he's over there eating crap then he aint looking for a coyote or hunting so he aint doing his job anyways. plus if he came in on a string i can kill him anyways, the diffance is what a guy is wanting from a dog, i need to kill coyotes, you need them on film, so we are going to hunt different ways. and you got a point on the breaking cover, but if that dog is at 500 yds and heads back in to you, by the time he gets back alot of times that coyote will break coer and come closer to see what the dog is doing, or at least get on a hill so he can see him.

jeff what have you seen that makes you think a ranging dog is worse then a close range dog in the fall?
 
Thats great Chris. I had that same problem with Doc and any other dog that ranges. They are most generally doing their own thing, not looking for coyotes. Having a dillo bayed right when a coyote comes in is not good for me. On the other hand having a dog sitting there on high alert watching with you is better for me.
 
thats why everyone needs to hunt the style of dog that they like, there are things i dont like about a dog that other guys love and things i like that others dont, as long as the guy that pays for the feed is happy then its all good
 
Originally Posted By: trapper2first if he's over there eating crap then he aint looking for a coyote or hunting so he aint doing his job anyways. plus if he came in on a string i can kill him anyways, the diffance is what a guy is wanting from a dog, i need to kill coyotes, you need them on film, so we are going to hunt different ways. and you got a point on the breaking cover, but if that dog is at 500 yds and heads back in to you, by the time he gets back alot of times that coyote will break coer and come closer to see what the dog is doing, or at least get on a hill so he can see him.

jeff what have you seen that makes you think a ranging dog is worse then a close range dog in the fall?

I agree with you Ryan, I just think the law of averages is on the side of your dog sitting there by you. A ranging dog will get you a few and cost you many more. If all Im wanting to do is kill then my dog by my side is still better. Even if a coyote dont want to work they will usually check up, and do it within easy gun range. I dont like 500 yard shots.

In the fall I see more coyotes that are reluctant to work the dog. By the end of October the percentages go way down, at least where I hunt. Have alot more coyotes that just turn tail and run. I want to at least see the coyote. A ranging dog may bugger a coyote way before I can even see it.

Something to take into consideration is the part of the country we hunt in. I normally cant see very far here in Arkansas. Also like you mentioned we want very different things from our dogs. I have the luxury of letting coyotes run off. Not one person I hunt on requires me to kill coyotes. They just let me hunt because I asked. I dont think the folks you hunt on feel the same way.

You know far more than me Ryan. I respect your opinion. You have more knowledge of dogs in you pinky finger than I have in my whole body. I just personally dont like a dog to range nor see any advantage to it whatsoever. I want to call coyotes like I always have. I also want to see dog work. Killing the coyote is second or third on my list.
 
jeff dont get me wrong, i like to watch a dog work as much as anyone, but i also like and need to kill coyotes. and like i said, long as the guy feeding likes them thats all that matters. dont give me to much cerdit on know anything, like i have said before, i cant teach a dog to poop in the floor, i have just gotten the chance to hunt with dogs my whole life and with decoy dogs for about 10 or 12, just alot of time watching how it works in my country
 
Im learning something everyday Ryan. My opinion has changed a dozen times, and will likely change a dozen more. About the time I think Ive got it figured out something happens that shows me just how dumb I really am. One thing that is certain is I love working with the dogs. Even if its just watching ole Mac pick up a skunk that is spraying him right in the eyes and shake him like a rag doll. I love it!
 
yep those are good times. i break all of mine off dillos from the start and awhile back my 5 yr old trainer dumped 7 dogs out on one in the yard and told them to get him, nothing like reverse training, ha
 
Originally Posted By: trapper2yep those are good times. i break all of mine off dillos from the start and awhile back my 5 yr old trainer dumped 7 dogs out on one in the yard and told them to get him, nothing like reverse training, ha

LOl, thats funny. Ive had a rash of skunks getting in the yard at night. Spot will bay them relentlessly until I get up and go kill the dumb thing. Mac just kinda walks around watching until I get out there. As soon as Im watching he rushes in and kills it. I dont allow it on calling stands, but in the yard its pretty fun to watch. Dillo's are fun too. Doc was the really funny one. That little dude liked to kill stuff and then shake the crap out of it. lol
 
You guys are right. This is probably a severe example of "to each his own."
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The only demand I get from my neighbors here is, "kill all the porcupines you find." Tucker sometimes bays or trees a porcupine or coon when we are on a coyote calling stand. I guess that is a bad thing for some....works for us though as masked bandits and P-Pines are her main work.

Oh yeah then there's treeing Bobcats.
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Ive never seen a porcupine Craig. Maybe we will run into one while Im up there. I promise if we do and he gets a chance Mac will bite it, especially if Im watching. lol
 
The last thing you want is for Mac to bite one. A good friend of mine lost one of his "best ever" coyote hounds (of 30+ years and hundreds of dogs) to a P-Pine quill that worked it's way up through the roof of his mouth and into the brain. At best it's probably a trip to the vet or at least a 45 minute session of both of us sitting on him and pulling quills. It really sucks. I have Tucker shocked off biting them. She now knows to bay, but not bite them.

Here is an extreme example that many have already seen. The Porkies come well armed.

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Here is a white one that an unarmed, horseback, neighbor took a picture of. He said it was really white. We never have caught up with it, yet.

WhiteP-Pine.jpg
 
Thats gotta hurt! My dogs have never seen one that I know of. Ill keep a close eye on em and make it hurt to bad to bother one.
 
DoubleCK - That Albino porcupine is SWEET. I love oddities and usually will go out of my way to bag an Albino, Melanistic, or other out of the ordinary color phase (heck our local Wildlife Services has a mounted albino coyote that is cool looking).


As far as ranging - It's a good point about conditioning a dog to range close or far. Having hunted with a fellow trapper who had 3 decoy dogs and they were all taught by him. I saw 3 dogs with different ranges. Dog #1 (the shortest/slowest/meanest) would go out and try to fight the coyotes even if they only howled back (Far Ranging). The trapper always was mad at the dog and figured one day the dog was going to get eaten. Dog #2 was a Cur/Redbone cross (about 35lbs, Fast) was IMHO the best of the three. Had the best eyes I have ever seen and could spot movement a heck of a long way off. This dog would range close and bait the coyotes back in (1st coyote I shot behind a decoy dog was on her @ about 15 yards), but on a command I saw the dog go down some draw canyons to bait out some coyotes and pups for us. Dog #3 was a brittany and his favorite dog. It didn't range as far but was smart and like an extension of the guy.

So I think as far as ranging it's easier to teach them to range close than far away.


Last week I didn't get to get out but this weekend (I know it's a holiday and I will have to go even farther to get away from the public masses) I have the green light and still am debating taking the pup. I have a neighbor that wants to go with me and if he does I probably wont take the puppy with us because my neighbor is going to be shooting un-suppressed and I don't want to make my dog gun shy. If I go by myself I probably will end up taking her and giving her 15-25 feet of cord. I will probably try some USFS land where no-one coyote hunts. I know there's coyotes up there but no-one thinks about going up there to hunt and only to hike (I myself am going to dress like a hiker and fit my gun into my backpack until I get set up).

Now that you guys have been talking about collars - I have a question -

Do you use tone or vibration collars more (I got a while more as my pup is only ~4 months and I already have a tone collar)?
 
I’m looking for a collar and spoke with Tony about the tone one’s and if they made one with different tones for different commands, like cast out, return, hunt/search? He wasn’t sure but thought it would be a good idea, I had told him I had a water dog on whistle and hand signals that I could cast out hunt/search for down birds, and return. He would go out as far as I waved him out 200 yards was not a problem. With this discussion on ranging dogs I would think having a dog at your side until you wanted to cast him out as a decoy say to the call or farther without the dog having or needing a visual or to challenge coyotes hanging up in brush would be ideal.
I did it with a water dog don’t know why a decoy dog couldn’t be trained to do the same. Except that I was using a whistle and hand signals, don’t know what a coyote would think I of me tweeting a whistle and waving my arms around , not much I’m thinking, LOL, got to find another set of commands

Anyway that’s going to be my goal with the Gunner/Lacy pup I get From Tony, I had a dog for years that I used letting him range as a reward, (take a break) and he would go do his own thing and keep within 100 yards or so checking on me from time to time,

Till he got into the porkies, (keep your dog’s away from them) I spent many an hour pulling quills, and if you miss one it can kill the dog, had a friend who’s dog died with a quill that worked its way to the heart because of the muscle action. I don’t think anything short of 220 volts would have broken my dog of his hatred of Porkies , that crazy SOB would eat light firecrackers given the chance, and whimper begging for more
 
Hi guy's!

I like this thread a lot!

I will implement many different techniques from all of you dog guys out there. Right now he is being trained as a family dog.

Ok, so, Bullet is only 9 weeks old, he will sit, laydown, kennel, leash trained to walk on my right side without pulling, potty trained, spends the day in his kennel (1 Accident) and he comes to my whistle.

Couple of questions here though for all -

I took him to a dog park for the first time ever yesterday, a male pitbull/boxer (4X Bullet's size) kept agitating him and Bullet went berserk a couple times with fangs showing and nipping at the other dogs legs and running him off, took him for a walk today and we stopped by the neighbors house, he has a female boxer that is 3 months old, twice his size and he did not like her getting all crazy on him either.

Is this normal??

Also,

Bullet will follow me everywhere i go, he is oblivious to my daughters and girlfriend, if they are holding him he has his eyes on me the entire time, i leave the room and he follows, it has gotten better with the girls and my girlfriend as they spend more time with him.

Is this normal as well?


Thanks Dog guys!!
 
My wife is the one who feeds our dogs, and they dont really care about anything she does. When they see me they know its kennel cleaning time or time to load up. They know where their loyalties lie! hahaha
DaFUnk
 
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