I need HELP!! Keep blowing up foxes

Originally Posted By: DiRTY DOGI stopped experimenting with 40gr Vmax because I transitioned to lead free. It might be fine if you slow it down even more, maybe below 3000fps.

What are you shooting now? The 45gr tsx?
 
Originally Posted By: desertcjThey will always exit. To some, a quarter size exit hole is great. To others, that would be unacceptable...

They’re typically dime sized, quarter is worse case scenario if you catch bone real bad. They don’t blow them up though which is the issue here. Prettt much any fragmenting bullet at these kind of velocities has a very high probability of blowing up a fox which is way worse than even a quarter size exit.
 
Originally Posted By: desertcjOriginally Posted By: DiRTY DOGI stopped experimenting with 40gr Vmax because I transitioned to lead free. It might be fine if you slow it down even more, maybe below 3000fps.

What are you shooting now? The 45gr tsx? I stopped using those because they are expensive and availability is spotty. I started using 50gr NBT-LF in an AR at the very end of last fox season on a few. The season just started back up and I haven't used them yet. I'll let you know this week! My backup plan is 50gr TTSX.
 
As a couple have mentioned a lightweight bullet with bluedot is an effective fox round. I spent many a moon trying to find a viable 223 fox round. I finally came up with a 34gr hollow point with 12ish gr of bluedot. Bluedot is NOT a rifle powder and can be dangerous. Don't use this....lol

17 HMR is about the best fox cartridge out there. That and cape buffalo...
 
I only own two centerfire rifles: .17 Hornet and .243. When it comes to fox my .17 Hornet is my go-to-rifle. However, it can leave quite the hole if you hit bone. Heck, even if you don't it still leaves a decent sized exit hole.

Good luck in your search for a fox-friendly round! When it comes to .223 hand loads are probably your best bet. DiRTY DOG provided a lot of good information. A caliber he mentioned has become a new favorite with a lot of PA fox hunters: .17 WSM. Lots of guys swear by it, running factory loads.
 
I've shot a couple coyotes with Federal Fusion 62gr factory ammo, it did well, but that's not a fox.

I'd say go with a heavy bullet, and well constructed bullet. There will be two holes, but shouldn't blow them up.
 
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Always easy to see who has shot many fox and who has not. Rabbits are a good test dummy for fox friendly loads. Rimfire and shotgun are the 2 best I've come up with.
 
Originally Posted By: Tim NeitzkeAlways easy to see who has shot many fox and who has not. Rabbits are a good test dummy for fox friendly loads. Rimfire and shotgun are the 2 best I've come up with. Agree.
 
DD, good posts .
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You ever get any bad splash holes on fox with the 17HMR ? My Uncle and I both use the 17gr VM as well. Every once in a while we get one, its dead but the damage is bad .
 
Rarely do we see much damage from the HMR. It is usually a small entry hole and gelatin on the inside. The only real "splashes I have seen with the HMR is on angling shots where bone is hit. Fragmentation causes some damage. Most shots though just punch in.

With our desert greys we usually have plenty of time to ensure adequate shot placement so not too many bone shots.
 
I can tell you that a 58vmax at 3500fps is not good for fox. No exit but the 2 i shot were both ripped open. 220 swift with 55vmax is also not a good option, 2 more were peeled open like a banana.

I built a 17-223 for a fox gun but I havent hunted with it much and when I have nothing came to the call. Fox are not abundant around me and havent been worth much the last few years so I let them walk by when I dont have my 17 with.
 
Originally Posted By: Tim NeitzkeDD, good posts .
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You ever get any bad splash holes on fox with the 17HMR ? My Uncle and I both use the 17gr VM as well. Every once in a while we get one, its dead but the damage is bad . A bad shot that grazes the brisket or belly can rip them open, but a normal shot just makes a tiny entry and no exit with 17gr Vmax. I've made a number of head shots with no damage other than an entry hole. Forehead, side of the head, ear canal, got one in the back of the throat once while it was barking at me.
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Hit a bobcat in the forehead too same result.
 
Originally Posted By: DiRTY DOGOriginally Posted By: Tim NeitzkeAlways easy to see who has shot many fox and who has not. Rabbits are a good test dummy for fox friendly loads. Rimfire and shotgun are the 2 best I've come up with. Agree.

I am a big fan of the shotgun running #4 buckshot for foxes.

If I am using a rifle, I use my 17 Remington, using Remington factory loads with the Hornady 25gr HP, or I reload using the 25gr HP.

I agree, the poly tipped stuff is not real fur friendly. it can be if you nail them in a soft spot, but anything else is a mess.

AzBushman and I tried for a while to find a real fur friendly .223 and ultimately we either had good sized holes or runners. Not a lot in between. I think the .223 is just too much for foxes, especially with factory loads.
 
I dont doubt that some guys may have found a .223 to be too much for fox. The problem I'm finding is that someone will say that any caliber under the sun is too much or too little and it's almost impossible to tell what's really going to work for you. A shotgun is the only thing I haven't heard anybody say is no good! In a rifle, I guess you could safely say that the best is somewhere between a 17 HMR and a .223? There's lot of options in between those two though...

Edit: I'm tempted to get a 17 wsm... biggest thing holding me back is the 1 single factory loading that's lead free and useable for me!
 
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Worst 17 HMR I've seen was a frontal shot at 20 yards. I could not believe how big the hole was.

Like said, most of the time its just a pin hole in and no exit.
 
I've never shot a fox with a .223 but I've shot a bunch of jackrabbits with it which aren't much smaller than a fox. I've shot them facing me and running straight away and turned their insides to jelly but didn't blow them apart with Winchester White box 45gr. JHP's. Shot a feral cat once with a 55gr. Sierra Blitzking and you couldn't even tell it had been shot. I hit it right in the chest. Hornady 52gr BTHP's have been good on everything I've shot with them too unless I hit the edges of a coyote. But that can be said about pretty much everything in a .223. I don't know of any bullet that won't exit on a broadside shot. All I'd know to do is shoot a tougher bullet that will punch a small hole clear through to the exit side.
 
Originally Posted By: desertcjI dont doubt that some guys may have found a .223 to be too much for fox. The problem I'm finding is that someone will say that any caliber under the sun is too much or too little and it's almost impossible to tell what's really going to work for you. A shotgun is the only thing I haven't heard anybody say is no good! In a rifle, I guess you could safely say that the best is somewhere between a 17 HMR and a .223? There's lot of options in between those two though...

Edit: I'm tempted to get a 17 wsm... biggest thing holding me back is the 1 single factory loading that's lead free and useable for me!

We have a healthy grey fox population here and I take out a lot of folks. We have spent a lot of time hunting foxes and have seen a lot of different results. I started hunting them with my .223 back in the day because it was all that I had. Most of the foxes I nailed with it, were very badly torn up. There just were so few "perfect" shots that resulted in a useable pelt. We tried for a while. A friend introduced me to the .204 and we used that on a lot of jackrabbits. It was devastating. It was also tough on foxes. Then came my .17 Remington and it was probably the most fur friendly that I found with the HP bullets. Polymer tipped resulted in a lot of damage. But by far, the .17 gave me the best results.

I won't post the nastier photos, but if you want to see them, PM me and I will be more than willing to share the photos of fur damage.

But this fox here was taken at 45 yards, with the .17 Remington, running the Hornady 25gr HP. The hole that you see is the exit hole.
IMG_0308 by Jason Mosler, on Flickr
 
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