I need some group diagnostic help

A

ACLakey

New member
I have been working up loads for my new .223AI and I am having a [beeep] of a time with 5 shot groups. I have not had this type of problem with any other rifle so I could use some help figuring out what is going on. The problem is I have been getting three rounds in a very good group with two consistent fliers.

I have been measuring every load so I know the charges are accurate. I am not getting any barrel to stock contact, conditions are fair for shooting. I am using the same Win brass and CCI 200 primers as well. I usually shoot from bags but today I used a lead sled but it did not help any. Here are some samples of what I am talking about.

HPIM1151s.jpg


HPIM1152s.jpg


HPIM1149.jpg


HPIM1153s.jpg


Any thoughts or suggestions???

I did try some H4895 and had by far the most consistent results and the best velocities with no signs of pressure. The wind started to pick up a bit while shooting these groups. I need to work around this load and shoot some more of it....still not giving up.

HPIM1150s.jpg
 
You didn't say if the fliers were at the beginning or the end of a group. If they are at the end, then maybe your barrel is heating up. Are your reciever screws good and tight? Maybe you could be fouling copper and when the barrel gets warm it throws a couple? Just a few ideas, I could be way off base.
 
I would try one shot, let barrel cool, 2nd shot, let barrel cool ect.....
see if that will elliminate the fliers

What range are you testing at? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused1.gif
 
Quote:
change primers CCI are hard and cold and might cause inconsistant ignition. I would try rem. or win. primers. just a thought



If you can find any!!!!!!!!!!
 
I thought about the barrel heating and on this morning I was very careful to let the barrel cool between shots. The fliers seem to be scattered throughout the group shot sequence. I noticed them sometimes on the first shot, others on the third shot ect. There was really no pattern so to speak.

I did notice even on my better groups with H4895 that three shots were very close(same hole) and the other two were out, not far mind you but they showed the same bizarre pattern.

The rifle started out as a Savage 12FV that shot exceptionally well. The current barrel is chambered in .223AI and is in between a sporter and magnum type taper with a 1:12 twist cut to 22". It is not quite as heavy as the Savage Predator Hunter barrel. I love the way it balances now, I am just struggling to get it to shoot.
 
Quote:
change primers CCI are hard and cold and might cause inconsistant ignition. I would try rem. or win. primers. just a thought



I have some Federal and CCI 450 on hand to try. I may be able to swap for some Winchester or Remington but am not sure if my buddy wants to part with any at the moment. They are all hard to come by around here right now.
 
The groups are good enough I would say, change bullets. Some bullets
don't shoot great in some guns. Try berger varmint 55 grainers. They seem
to be very tolerant of load variables in my 223. I also have the best luck
with benchmark for powder. I can't get any boat tail bullets to bug hole in
my 22-250 or 223. No 50 or 55 hornady bullets I have tried shot well.
 
I had a problem close to that with a Rem 700 in 223. When all was said and done the gunsmith cut a new muzzle crown,problem gone it now holds 3/8" group at 100 yards for 5 shots. Beings the barrel was cut down it is worth checking out.
 
It was a reamed factory tube.

I am going to try my old faitful Sierra #1365 and some H4895 soon. I am also going to experiment with primers and seating depth. I am just stumped why I am getting two fliers in most all the groups.

The crown is new and looks good but if all else fails I will look into it.

Thanks for the info thus far.
 
Not sure how much more accuracy you are expecting to wring out of that factory Savage tube, but I reckon there ain't much left...

Despite all the internet hooplah to the contrary, it's just not realistic to expect custom barrel performance from a factory barrel...

Custom barrel makers like Broughton, Bartlein, Kreiger, Hart, Lilja, Pac Nor, Rock Creek, Shilen, etc, are in business for a reason. If factory tubes delivered consistent sub moa performance, custom barrel makers would cease to exist...
 
I got lucky with the factory tube that came on the rifle, it is an outstanding shooter but the rifle was not pleasant to pack in the field all day. For what it is this barrel gives acceptable accuracy. What baffles me is the fact I consistently get two fliers per group and I can not see a pattern or reason why. Thanks for the information
 


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