Im a confused new guy to reloading

1

17remhunter

Active member
Im reloading for a 17 Remington. Im assuming that most rifles in the same cartridge are somewhat similar with loads. Today at the range im trying N 540 and a 30 gr bullet. Starting load is 23 gr. I read on this sight that one guys load was 26 gr of 540 at 3900. I started at 23. Thirst three at 23 cronographed At 4000 +. Flattened primers and cratering. Over 3 grains difference. Is this normal. That much of a difference??
 
Don't know what brass you used nor primers. They can make a little difference. I personally never trust info from forums. Someone can accidentally fat finger or get their wires crossed. Rule of thumb is start 10% lower than Max. I have several books and if a caliber is new, I call companies like Berger, Sierra, Barnes etc etc. The techs can help. Also some info is on websites like Hodgdon, Vhitavouri, I have Emailed and called both, the folks at Vhitavouri. Same with Barnes.
And yes just 3 grs over with some powders can make a big difference.
With some powders too little can cause erratic velocities, and pressure spikes. That is more prevalent in straight wall pistol cartridges.
 
17remhunter said:
Im reloading for a 17 Remington. Im assuming that most rifles in the same cartridge are somewhat similar with loads. Today at the range im trying N 540 and a 30 gr bullet. Starting load is 23 gr. I read on this sight that one guys load was 26 gr of 540 at 3900. I started at 23. Thirst three at 23 cronographed At 4000 +. Flattened primers and cratering. Over 3 grains difference. Is this normal. That much of a difference??
Click to expand...
Did I not mention to you to reduce loads 10% when I posted the link ... so for 23.0 gr load - 2.3grs (10% reduction) = 20.7grs is where you should have started, actually lower see the example below.

0.2grs can mean the difference between keeping your face intact or not. Especially with small bore size, and a large case capacity in relationship to the bore.

Here let me make it simple
qoute 2nd post in the thread which has the lowest value when I glanced :
the following loads were developed in a 17 rem 700 bdl with rem brass.
22.5 n540 30 gr berger 7.5 rem primers 3700 fps
23.0 n540 30 gr berger 7.5 rem primers 3750 fps
23.5 n540 30 gr berger 7.5 rem primers 3865 fps most accurate

start lower and work up



bob
En quote:
the gentleman's loads he started at 22.5. I would have taken this value reduced 10% ... -2.2gr =20.3grs. Loaded 1 round and one only working up in 0.2 to 0.3grs increments for 1 round ONLY. Marking the case with a sharpie the weight of the charge. This allows me to work up slowly, without wrecking a rifle or my face. With that small a bore I would have been 0.2 or less increments. Just because someone on a site, or a book says XX.Xgrs of powder max doesn't mean it's safe for your rifle. Especially if the bullet is making contact with the bore. you want at least 0.005 to 0.010" from contact further is better for pressure.
 
Last edited:
17remhunter said:
Im assuming that most rifles in the same cartridge are somewhat similar with loads
Click to expand...
(n)
NOPE!!! throat angles can differ, throat Diameters, and lengths can vary.
All of these factors can drive pressure though the roof, this is why everyone is cautioning you to start low.
While there is SAAMI specs ... THEY are voluntary, not a law, not a requirement, simply a guideline.
SAAMI was started to get the bullet manufacturers and gunmaker into a more compatible fit, and safety. Until it was introduced it wasn't uncommon for a gun to go "boom", since it inception things have a lot safer than the preceding years.
 
Last edited:
Sgt_Mike said:
(n)
NOPE!!! throat angles can differ, throat Diameters, and lengths can vary.
All of these factors can drive pressure though the roof, this is why everyone is cautioning you to start low.
While there is SAAMI specs ... THEY are voluntary, not a law, not a requirement, simply a guideline.
SAAMI was started to get the bullet manufacturers and gunmaker into a more compatible fit, and safety. Until it was introduced it wasn't uncommon for a gun to go "boom", since it inception things have a lot safer than the preceding years.
Click to expand...
So one rifle can top out with pressure and velocity at 23 grains where another rifle can get the same velocity 3 grains higher. Same cartridge same powder same bullet?
 
Sgt_Mike said:
Did I not mention to you to reduce loads 10% when I posted the link ... so for 23.0 gr load - 2.3grs (10% reduction) = 20.7grs is where you should have started, actually lower see the example below.

0.2grs can mean the difference between keeping your face intact or not. Especially with small bore size, and a large case capacity in relationship to the bore.

Here let me make it simple
qoute 2nd post in the thread which has the lowest value when I glanced :
the following loads were developed in a 17 rem 700 bdl with rem brass.
22.5 n540 30 gr berger 7.5 rem primers 3700 fps
23.0 n540 30 gr berger 7.5 rem primers 3750 fps
23.5 n540 30 gr berger 7.5 rem primers 3865 fps most accurate

start lower and work up



bob
En quote:
the gentleman's loads he started at 22.5. I would have taken this value reduced 10% ... -2.2gr =20.3grs. Loaded 1 round and one only working up in 0.2 to 0.3grs increments for 1 round ONLY. Marking the case with a sharpie the weight of the charge. This allows me to work up slowly, without wrecking a rifle or my face. With that small a bore I would have been 0.2 or less increments. Just because someone on a site, or a book says XX.Xgrs of powder max doesn't mean it's safe for your rifle. Especially if the bullet is making contact with the bore. you want at least 0.005 to 0.010" from contact further is better for pressure.
Click to expand...
I definitely have a lot to learn. So one 17 Remington can get 3900 fps with 26 gr of N540 while another 17 Remington could get the same velocity at 22 gr of N540. Assuming the same 30 gr bullet?? Today at 23 gr i had high pressure and the chronograph registered 4000 fps with 30 gr bullet.
 
Cartridge OAL will have a lot to do with pressure spikes as well.
Your rifle may have a short chamber and if you jam the bullet into the lands you get pressure spikes.
You need to measure to the lands and make sure the OAL is a few thousandths shorter just to be safe.
To do that you need to make a dummy round(Non Primed)and seat the bullet a little long.
Take an OAL measurement before and after chambering the round.
Good luck,
SJC
 
shoots100 said:
You need to measure to the lands and make sure the OAL is a few thousandths shorter just to be safe.
Click to expand...
Step ONE... find this first.


17remhunter said:
So one 17 Remington can get 3900 fps with 26 gr of N540 while another 17 Remington could get the same velocity at 22 gr of N540. Assuming the same 30 gr bullet?? Today at 23 gr i had high pressure and the chronograph registered 4000 fps with 30 gr bullet.
Click to expand...
Did you shoot the 26gr of N540 and get 3900 fps, or did somebody on the web do it??? if that is the case do you know for sure if a Chronograph was used ? they very well could have guessed or extrapolated it from something???

to see what shoots 100 is taking about see here with to the lands or jam length measurement.
www.predatormasters.com

Help me explain this ???

Thanks to all that have been commenting , learning alot here!
www.predatormasters.com www.predatormasters.com
 
Last edited:
@17remhunter
You do realize you are covering 4 different post with this issue of the N540 and the 30gr bullet your using.
Heck I'm confused with trying to assist...........................
 
Sgt_Mike said:
Step ONE... find this first.



Did you shoot the 26gr of N540 and get 3900 fps, or did somebody on the web do it??? if that is the case do you know for sure if a Chronograph was used ? they very well could have guessed or extrapolated it from something???

to see what shoots 100 is taking about see here
www.predatormasters.com

Help me explain this ???

Thanks to all that have been commenting , learning alot here!
www.predatormasters.com www.predatormasters.com
Click to expand...
Yes I was looking back for it. I have no idea if he was using a crono. I think for my best interest and safety im going to go back to the starting load from Hodgdon 20gr of H4895 for the 30 gr bullet. I will post my findings if you dont here from me then im in ICU
 
Sgt_Mike said:
@17remhunter
You do realize you are covering 4 different post with this issue of the N540 and the 30gr bullet your using.
Heck I'm confused with trying to assist...........................
Click to expand...
Yes im baffled and frantic for clarification. I guess when someone says he is getting 3900 using 26.4 gr of N540. I shoul take it with a grain of salt. However Accurate reloader lists liads for the 17 Remington 30 grain also
 
One STOP being FRANTIC.... LOL Pick one thread and go from there.
Do you know what the max Cartridge overall length is for your rifles chamber with the bullet your using?

Whom makes the bullet?

let's attempt this 1 step at a time...
 
Sgt_Mike said:
One STOP being FRANTIC.... LOL Pick one thread and go from there.
Do you know what the max Cartridge overall length is for your rifles chamber with the bullet your using?

Whom makes the bullet?

let's attempt this 1 step at a time...
Click to expand...
I measured it using the hornady aol gauge numerous times and the bullet contacts the rifling outside of the neck. I seat the bullets way under the maximum
 
17remhunter said:
I measured it using the hornady aol gauge numerous times and the bullet contacts the rifling outside of the neck. I seat the bullets way under the maximum
Click to expand...
17remhunter said:
I measured it using the hornady aol gauge numerous times and the bullet contacts the rifling outside of the neck. I seat the bullets way under the maximum
Click to expand...

Sgt_Mike said:
(n)
NOPE!!! throat angles can differ, throat Diameters, and lengths can vary.
All of these factors can drive pressure though the roof, this is why everyone is cautioning you to start low.
While there is SAAMI specs ... THEY are voluntary, not a law, not a requirement, simply a guideline.
SAAMI was started to get the bullet manufacturers and gunmaker into a more compatible fit, and safety. Until it was introduced it wasn't uncommon for a gun to go "boom", since it inception things have a lot safer than the preceding years.
Click to expand...
Well SARGE im going back to familiar territory. H4895 starting load right out or the book 20 gr
 
17remhunter said:
I measured it using the hornady aol gauge numerous times and the bullet contacts the rifling outside of the neck.
Click to expand...
what is the dimension?

17remhunter said:
I seat the bullets way under the maximum
Click to expand...
seating too deep can and most likely will drive pressure up

17remhunter said:
Accurate reloader lists 24 gr to 26 gr for the 30 using N540. At 26 they show a velocity right under 4000
Click to expand...

yeah yeah that site is NOT a reloading site, as in the same manner as say sierra Hornady, Berger, hodgdon , etc etc
 
once you find the dimension for the 30gr to make contact with lands and groove subtract 0.010" of a inch from that measurement here is where you start for the cartridge length.

Then come Monday call Vihtavuori
or email them now and ask for a start and stop load for your desired powder with your desired bullet....
link to email
Contact information | Vihtavuori


Usually a ballistician will run the number via Quick load or a some other software and have a pretty straight forward answer for min max.
Being a 17 Rem I hope your cleaning every 3 / 5 th shot as the are known for needing to be cleaned.
 
Sgt_Mike said:
once you find the dimension for the 30gr to make contact with lands and groove subtract 0.010" of a inch from that measurement here is where you start for the cartridge length.

Then come Monday call Vihtavuori
or email them now and ask for a start and stop load for your desired powder with your desired bullet....
link to email
Contact information | Vihtavuori


Usually a ballistician will run the number via Quick load or a some other software and have a pretty straight forward answer for min max.
Being a 17 Rem I hope your cleaning every 3 / 5 th shot as the are known for needing to be cleaned.
Click to expand...
Yep i clean when i return fron shooting every time. I will work on getting that measurement. Thanks.
 
Back
Top