Im flat out amazed with my 35 rem.

Originally Posted By: pahntr760A 223 is a varmint chambering? There are plenty of dead critters and people that would disagree, if they could.

I'm glad we are ironing things out here, here is something from the Chuck Hawks web site:

The .223 Remington has become our most popular varmint cartridge, and one of the best selling of all rifle cartridges. It has been adopted for military use by nations all over the world. Military style .223 ammunition is widely distributed and very inexpensive. Unfortunately, it seldom delivers the gilt-edged accuracy demanded by varmint hunters.

Some .223 Remington factory loads, however, are extremely accurate, considerably better than military ammunition. One of these is the Remington factory load with the 55 grain Power-Lokt bullet. This is a hollow point spitzer bullet designed specifically for varmint shooting. It has been reported that this bullet will usually group into .5 to .75 inches at 100 yards from a .223 varmint rifle. Most handloaders would be hard pressed to load more accurate ammunition.

Current factory loads drive a 55 grain bullet at 3,240 fps at the muzzle. Muzzle energy is 1,282 ft. lbs. The figures for the Remington 55 grain HP Power-Lokt bullet at 200 yards are 2,352 fps and 675 ft. lbs.

Factory trajectory tables show that a scope sighted .223 shooting the 55 grain spitzer bullet and zeroed at 200 yards hits 1.5" high at 100 yards, 1.5" high at 150 yards, 0 at 200 yards, 3" low at 250 yards, and 7.9" low at 300 yards. The .223 is a 235+ yard varmint cartridge.

Most serious varmint hunters with .223 varmint rifles will handload the cartridge for maximum accuracy and performance. The most common bullet weights run from 40 to 60 grains, with the 50-55 grain bullets being the most popular for varmint hunting. Widely recommended powders include H322, H335, BL-C2, W748, Benchmark, and IMR 3031. Here are some specifications .223 reloaders should keep in mind: bullet diameter .224", maximum COL 2.26", maximum case length 1.76", MAP 52,000 cup.

The fifth edition of the Nosler Reloading Manual shows that 24.5 grains of Benchmark powder gave the Nosler 50 grain Ballistic Tip bullet a MV of 3285 fps, and 26.5 grains of the same powder drove that bullet to a MV of 3540 fps.

23.0 grains of H335 powder behind the 55 grain Nosler bullets produced a MV of 2920 fps, and 25.0 grains of H335, the most accurate powder tested with that bullet weight, gave a MV of 3140 fps. These Nosler loads were developed in Winchester cases using Remington 7 1/2 primers, and were chronographed in a 24" rifle barrel.

I have found that in my Savage Model 12 Low Profile varmint rifle, the 60 grain Hornady SP bullet in front of 22.8 grains of IMR 3031 powder delivers top accuracy. This is a maximum load. The MV of this load is given as 3000 fps using Winchester cases and WSR primers.

Remember that the .223 Remington is a varmint cartridge. Despite its success as a military cartridge (where it produces "casualties"--not necessarily quick kills), it is not a big game cartridge and should not be used for hunting deer and antelope. Shooting a 55 grain bullet, its optimum game weight is only about 19 pounds at 200 yards.Note: A full length article about the .223 Remington can be found on the Rifle Cartridge Page.
 
Whoever worte this is an IDIOT.

So if were shooting at 200 yards, the .223 should not be used on game weighing over 19pounds?

Just so Im in the know next time im in the field with my .223. Once I get past 199 yards I cant shoot a big boar coon, a beaver, a bobcat, a coyote, or a deer?

DAM, my last deer kill with the .223 was over 200...must not have actually killed it.
 
getfoxy:

The Optimum Game Weight (OGW) formula was developed by Ed Matunas, a gun writer, handloader, African hunter etc. so he wasn't really an "idiot".

The Lyman 47th Edition Reloading Manual has a lot of info (10 pages) re OGW; it is a better formula than the Taylor Knockdown theory (a preceding formula). And, there really has been nothing better proposed since OGW.

It really does have some merits, and is worth reading. A lot of long range "hunters" hate OGW as it sets energy limits (FPE) limits on all weight of game animals.

It sure beats "if we can hit it we can kill it" thinking, especially if "you have been there and regretted that".
 
Don't care. It's a stupid optimum game weight. Anyone with actual field experience knows that. I'm sure there's plenty here that would agree
 
Originally Posted By: pahntr760NATO says the effective range of the M-16 is 650. Hmm. I think the formula is terribly flawed.

Dunno if I would stretch it out to 650 on a single point target, not that it couldn't do it, but given the materials the average grunt is given to work with, probably not gonna happen. We stick to the 550/800 rule.
grin.gif


NATO needs to pay attention.
grin.gif
 
Well Ernest I to am a big fan of Marlin Levers. I have 3 and all shoot 5 shot 100 yard groups that touch. All guns are topped with Leupolds now. One gun is a 1949 336RC in 30-30, one 1990 336CS 30-30, and a 1976 444S "Triple 4" that I absolutly love, This monster will knock the snoot out of deer out past 200 yards, (My kid shot one this past season at 220 lazered yards). If I had to trim down my gun collection the levers would all stay. Some people look down on the lever gun but I can kill anything with these levers. Take care Ernest II and enjoy those Marlin Levers,----Riflemann

(P.S. I once had a Winchester lever 30-30, I will not make that mistake again)
 
Well said Rifleman. Ive got two levers a Winchester 94ae 44mag and a Henry 22, they are starting to grow on me.

I could do without the 44 and have thought about selling but would like a 336 .35rem or 308 marin express.
 
Originally Posted By: getfoxyWhoever worte this is an IDIOT.

So if were shooting at 200 yards, the .223 should not be used on game weighing over 19pounds?

Just so Im in the know next time im in the field with my .223. Once I get past 199 yards I cant shoot a big boar coon, a beaver, a bobcat, a coyote, or a deer?

DAM, my last deer kill with the .223 was over 200...must not have actually killed it.

I'm with you. Some people need to quit playing with calculators, computers, paper targets, and relying on speculation and theory to support their thesis. They need to actually get out in the field and shoot some stuff.
 
Gosh I wonder how many 25lb coyotes have been killed at 250 or so yards with the .223 and smaller. I did twice this week.
 
Originally Posted By: Mike21Originally Posted By: pahntr760NATO says the effective range of the M-16 is 650. Hmm. I think the formula is terribly flawed.

Dunno if I would stretch it out to 650 on a single point target, not that it couldn't do it, but given the materials the average grunt is given to work with, probably not gonna happen. We stick to the 550/800 rule.
grin.gif


NATO needs to pay attention.
grin.gif


NATO doesn't care if they die. It costs more money and takes more men off the field if they are wounded. Not that I disagree, energy didn't become relevant till the gun rag writer's needed an excuse to sell everyone a "magnum cartridge"...
 
Happy to hear you went with the 35 Rem. Good choice. It is an excellent deer cartridge. One of the all time great "woods" cartridges.

I sold my Marlin 336, but still retain a Rem 141 in 35 Rem. It isn't going anywhere.........
 
Originally Posted By: mnblasterOriginally Posted By: pahntr760A 223 is a varmint chambering? There are plenty of dead critters and people that would disagree, if they could.

I'm glad we are ironing things out here, here is something from the Chuck Hawks web site:

The .223 Remington has become our most popular varmint cartridge, and one of the best selling of all rifle cartridges. It has been adopted for military use by nations all over the world. Military style .223 ammunition is widely distributed and very inexpensive. Unfortunately, it seldom delivers the gilt-edged accuracy demanded by varmint hunters.

Some .223 Remington factory loads, however, are extremely accurate, considerably better than military ammunition. One of these is the Remington factory load with the 55 grain Power-Lokt bullet. This is a hollow point spitzer bullet designed specifically for varmint shooting. It has been reported that this bullet will usually group into .5 to .75 inches at 100 yards from a .223 varmint rifle. Most handloaders would be hard pressed to load more accurate ammunition.

Current factory loads drive a 55 grain bullet at 3,240 fps at the muzzle. Muzzle energy is 1,282 ft. lbs. The figures for the Remington 55 grain HP Power-Lokt bullet at 200 yards are 2,352 fps and 675 ft. lbs.

Factory trajectory tables show that a scope sighted .223 shooting the 55 grain spitzer bullet and zeroed at 200 yards hits 1.5" high at 100 yards, 1.5" high at 150 yards, 0 at 200 yards, 3" low at 250 yards, and 7.9" low at 300 yards. The .223 is a 235+ yard varmint cartridge.

Most serious varmint hunters with .223 varmint rifles will handload the cartridge for maximum accuracy and performance. The most common bullet weights run from 40 to 60 grains, with the 50-55 grain bullets being the most popular for varmint hunting. Widely recommended powders include H322, H335, BL-C2, W748, Benchmark, and IMR 3031. Here are some specifications .223 reloaders should keep in mind: bullet diameter .224", maximum COL 2.26", maximum case length 1.76", MAP 52,000 cup.

The fifth edition of the Nosler Reloading Manual shows that 24.5 grains of Benchmark powder gave the Nosler 50 grain Ballistic Tip bullet a MV of 3285 fps, and 26.5 grains of the same powder drove that bullet to a MV of 3540 fps.

23.0 grains of H335 powder behind the 55 grain Nosler bullets produced a MV of 2920 fps, and 25.0 grains of H335, the most accurate powder tested with that bullet weight, gave a MV of 3140 fps. These Nosler loads were developed in Winchester cases using Remington 7 1/2 primers, and were chronographed in a 24" rifle barrel.

I have found that in my Savage Model 12 Low Profile varmint rifle, the 60 grain Hornady SP bullet in front of 22.8 grains of IMR 3031 powder delivers top accuracy. This is a maximum load. The MV of this load is given as 3000 fps using Winchester cases and WSR primers.

Remember that the .223 Remington is a varmint cartridge. Despite its success as a military cartridge (where it produces "casualties"--not necessarily quick kills), it is not a big game cartridge and should not be used for hunting deer and antelope. Shooting a 55 grain bullet, its optimum game weight is only about 19 pounds at 200 yards.Note: A full length article about the .223 Remington can be found on the Rifle Cartridge Page.


Nothing like someone with zero experience shooting big game with a .223 quoting someone else with less experience...Man I love the internet!!!! BTW, how the [beeep] did we go from .35 Rem and deer to .223...? Oh ya, again someone with zero experience,.................... with either! DSMFer's..
lol.gif



PLOTBOSS
 
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