info on reduced loads?

reaper4

reaper4

New member
I just bought a few hundred 40 gr vmax that I want to try to reduce pretty heavily to try and come up with the elusive fur friendly load for red fox out here. Shooting a 223 and normally load with benchmark. I guess I am hoping to find out how low I can load these with benchmark and if that won't get me low enough, if anyone has a good idea of a powder/load for this application
 
Do you need them to cycle in a semi-auto? I shoot 40 grn V-Max'es with reduced charges of Alliant 2400 handgun powder, just over 2600 FPS in my chrony. I'd have to go look at my charge, don't want to guess.

My data was right out of a 10 yr old Alliant manual.
 
Huh that sounds very interesting. I do not need them to cycle a semi. I'm shooting them out of a bolt gun. I am wondering how little benchmark I can load safely. I'm thinking if I get them down to 2500-2700 I might have a winner
 
Go to "Calhoun Bullets" web site and has and has in " Informative Articles" has one called "To BEE or 223, that is the question" about loading 222 and 223 for gopher hunting using Blue Dot and 800X. I use the 800X loads for finishers and small game in my 222, 223, and 5.6x50R

http://jamescalhoon.com/
 
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You could always investigate Hodgdon's "60% Rule" with H-4895. That would get you down a fair amount. When I've used the method I have always stayed a bit off the lowest end of the charge weight, never a problem.

Our dog alerted me to a coyote passing near the backyard today. The only iron I could get to quickly was my 17 HMR. I took the 100+/- yard shot that was offered. I heard the thwack, and saw the stumble. Not really surprised when the coyote loped off uneasily. One thing I know for sure, he won't be back one way or another.

I'll check my data later. I think I also posted it in another thread a while back. 2650 fps with a 40 grain bullet is about what a 22 Hornet usually does.

I went and checked. The 2005 Alliant manual shows max near 14 grains with 45 grain bullet, 2400 powder in a 223 case. I used 12 grains with a 40 grn V-Max for 2670 FPS. Alliant 2400 is also fairly popular in current 22 Hornet data, just for general reference.
 
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Looks like blue dot, 800x, a2400, unique, and reloader 7 are the normal choices. Read a lot about trail boss and it seems too mild for what I want it does not look like I can get my target velocity with it. Will keep an eye out for some of these powders and post results when I can. Any other info would be great
 
I have shot hundreds of rounds of reduced loads in my .223 using 10-12 grains of Bluedot and a 40 grain bullet. Vmax I think worked best. Anyway, good launches with ground squirrels, fairly quiet, and almost astonishingly, clover leafs at 100 yards.

I quit using them when I bought my first AR-15 several years ago because they dont have enough poop to work the action but they did shoot and they shot well. Give them a try.
 
There are a number of older threads on this here with a bunch of info thru the search engine above. The general thought is staying under 3000 fps with a lighter 224 bullet....basically mimic 22 Hornet velocities and you'll get 22 Hornet performance which most uys are pretty happy with on fox. Even yotes while picking shot location well. The Vmax is on the lighter constructed side, so stay off the bones and pick the angles. H4895 seems to be the powder to try first for this - goes about max speed down to the lower 2K fps range nicely while being tested and safe. One thing that has always bugged me about the Blue Dot and such loads is that I've never seen pressure data form anyone....I know, I know....almost no one has blown a gun up with them with millions of shots fired....call me a snit, but a few have, and Blue Dot can be double-charged at times in some cases without noticing it. Trail Boss will put you down around 22LR to 22 mag range...not bad for fox only either. Considering the Midsouth VE 34 gr bullet with H4895 myself to 100 yds and probably 40 gr Sierra HP or Nosler BT for yotes and beyond 100 yds or so. I have a pile of Vmaxs [beeep]......
 
Just remember that even though the Blue Dot load uses a small amount of powder, it is a high pressure load. And there is enough empty space in the case for a double charge. A double charge will destroy the gun. If you decide to use the Blue Dot loads, charge a case and immediately seat a bullet in it.
 
Thank you. I guess it cones down to what seems to be more accurate. I need to get around 2700 fps. To do what I think I need it to
 
what Ihitchcox said load it with powder and then seat a bullet. Blue dot is going to give you the best performance in this velocity range.
I have tried a lot of different powders in this little case.

One of these days I may start a post on things like this. Such as using pistol powders for rifles and using shotgun powders for pistols and rifles. And even rifle powders for pistols. It would be fun and interesting.
 
Do it! I love this kind of info. And without buying a new gun, its the only way for my to save all these fox pelts.
 
Before I blew my gun up using pistol powder in a rifle....

I would just make a better bullet selection. I have shot many fox with 222 and 223 and there are lots of fur-friendly bullets out there. The cheapest is probably the Speer 50 gr soft point. The most expensive is probably the 60 gr partition or the bear claw.

Safety first!
 
I am not saying that the bullets you suggested will not do the job, but I am suggesting that they wont do it for me lol. I have used the partition and the speer, no dice for me. I cannot seem to hit a red with ANYTHING but a 22 wmr without tearing up the hide. I have not shot them with a hornet or fireball as I cant afford one right now. I do think that under just the right circumstances those bullets perform well on fox. unfortunately I cant get them to work consistently. I shot 76 red fox last year and 9 greys. Anything shot with a 223 was damaged more than I would like with the exception of 3. A lot of this is because most of the shots I take are frontal shots and it seems anywhere I put it exits and rips them up bad on exit. I know I know SHOT PLACEMENT! well I have placed it everywhere and I cant get a full power 223 load to stay inside or exit small. a lot of those fox were salvageable, but not as clean as I would like, thus the search for a more fur friendly round.
 
I do believe you that different people get different results, based primarily on location. Here, reds are small and have hides like tissue paper. The bullets I mentioned simply pass right through, and might leave a nickel sized exit. If bet fox in your area have a little more meat on their bones, and likely cause a little more bullet expansion.

I'm not a big fox hunter, although I kill a bunch for my friend on his bird ranch. I always figured if I was going to kill them, I should skin them... Hence my search for a better bullet. Those are just the ones I found, sorry they don't work for you.

I have heard that there is a guy in TX making reduced 223 loads. I think his outfit is called right to bear ammo.
 
Thanks for both replies I may have to revisit those bullets and just try to wait for the absolute optimal shot opportunity. These things out here get pretty big and that may be the difference.
 
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