Iray tube scopes
- Thread starter jmeddy
- Start date
Iray is the mother ship of Chinese thermal technology that produces for civilian and Chinese military use.. Bering uses Iray sensors but I think their own software versions, I'm sure Kirsch can answer that more detailed??
So IMO they are cheaply made Chinese optics that provide an image that can kill a coyote or hog at a price point for guys on a budget. Their 640 image is not even close to Nvision, Trijicon or the new Pulsar XPs. I know, I've owned a couple!
If your budget doesn't allow an American owned/made scope look at Pulsar, they offer a better product than the Chinese at a comparable price and your not supporting the Chinese financially!
So IMO they are cheaply made Chinese optics that provide an image that can kill a coyote or hog at a price point for guys on a budget. Their 640 image is not even close to Nvision, Trijicon or the new Pulsar XPs. I know, I've owned a couple!
If your budget doesn't allow an American owned/made scope look at Pulsar, they offer a better product than the Chinese at a comparable price and your not supporting the Chinese financially!
Kirsch
Active member
I have zero experience with iRay tube scopes. I agree with Kino that Bering uses iRay sensors in many of their brands including the Hogsters, Vibes, Phenoms and Yoters. I like Pulsars and many of their XQ and XP options, I do not 100% agree that Pulsar XPs have a better image in comparison to a Super Yoter, as I have used them too. I don’t speak in absolutes when it comes to image quality /preference. It is like people arguing over Ford or Chevy trucks. Some people will like one and while other people like the other. I have also tested Trijicons, and there are pros and cons there as well. I hope to test Nvision later this year.
According to Bering, their thermal products contain about 10% Chinese components. It might be surprising to find out the percentage of Chinese components in scope brands not considered Chinese. Most companies don't publish this type of information.
According to Bering, their thermal products contain about 10% Chinese components. It might be surprising to find out the percentage of Chinese components in scope brands not considered Chinese. Most companies don't publish this type of information.
Originally Posted By: KirschIt might be surprising to find out the percentage of Chinese components in scope brands not considered Chinese. Most companies don't publish this type of information.
Kirsch I've heard that before and I'm curious what you (or anyone else) actually know first hand or get that information to make that statement???
You didn't specifically say US owned/made or even Pulsar that is Lithuanian owned but I'm really curious because there is a LOT of disinformation on the web???? Can you please elaborate as to what exact brands and parts/percentage your insinuating??
There literally are only 2 main American thermal manufacturers (Nvision and Trijicon) and Pulsar (Lithuania)that offer scopes at a non astronomical price that aren't considered Chinese. Do you actually know what percentage or parts are actually Chinese in any of these brands??
Kirsch I've heard that before and I'm curious what you (or anyone else) actually know first hand or get that information to make that statement???
You didn't specifically say US owned/made or even Pulsar that is Lithuanian owned but I'm really curious because there is a LOT of disinformation on the web???? Can you please elaborate as to what exact brands and parts/percentage your insinuating??
There literally are only 2 main American thermal manufacturers (Nvision and Trijicon) and Pulsar (Lithuania)that offer scopes at a non astronomical price that aren't considered Chinese. Do you actually know what percentage or parts are actually Chinese in any of these brands??
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Kirsch
Active member
You could throw Flir into the mix as well with the exception they don't make civilian scopes any longer as far as potential of US made, and I really don't know where all their manufacturing happens.
I am really saying/asking the same thing as you Kino. Mine was phrased more as a statement saying "It might be surprising to find out the percentage of Chinese components in scope brands not considered Chinese. Most companies don't publish this type of information. I don't know the % of parts of any brand thermal that comes from China with the exception of Bering. I am also taking Bering's word for it because I don't have their parts list either. I had recently read the following article and it is one of the things that led to my comment. This article says the most "American Made" truck is actually the Toyota Tundra with 65% of the Toyota Tundra’s parts are made in the U.S./Canada. Chevy trucks are around 55% and it sounds like Fords are in between. All these brands say "Made in America". The most American made truck still only has 65% American parts.
Even the US government has very lax standards apparently to what Made in America means. Here is an example. According to the Buy American Act, a given product must "be manufactured in the U.S. of more than 50% U.S. parts to be considered Made in the USA for government procurement purposes."
The point to my comment is unless a company actually publishes a parts list and where each part comes from, we do not know the % that is truly US and if any of those outside of the US parts come from China. I did not state any brands in my comment because I do not know the answer. I sure was surprised to find out the most American Made truck was a Toyota.
I am really saying/asking the same thing as you Kino. Mine was phrased more as a statement saying "It might be surprising to find out the percentage of Chinese components in scope brands not considered Chinese. Most companies don't publish this type of information. I don't know the % of parts of any brand thermal that comes from China with the exception of Bering. I am also taking Bering's word for it because I don't have their parts list either. I had recently read the following article and it is one of the things that led to my comment. This article says the most "American Made" truck is actually the Toyota Tundra with 65% of the Toyota Tundra’s parts are made in the U.S./Canada. Chevy trucks are around 55% and it sounds like Fords are in between. All these brands say "Made in America". The most American made truck still only has 65% American parts.
Even the US government has very lax standards apparently to what Made in America means. Here is an example. According to the Buy American Act, a given product must "be manufactured in the U.S. of more than 50% U.S. parts to be considered Made in the USA for government procurement purposes."
The point to my comment is unless a company actually publishes a parts list and where each part comes from, we do not know the % that is truly US and if any of those outside of the US parts come from China. I did not state any brands in my comment because I do not know the answer. I sure was surprised to find out the most American Made truck was a Toyota.
I gotcha, I misunderstood the way you worded it and thought maybe you had some inside knowledge and would love to know the answer myself. I see people all the time try and make comparison to phones and computers without one once of factual data to back up BS claims.
All I can say for 100% is Nvision and Trijicon are American owned and use American made BAE cores and my purchase doesn't go directly to Iray/Chinese defense profits when you buy a scope with a Chinese tube.
All I can say for 100% is Nvision and Trijicon are American owned and use American made BAE cores and my purchase doesn't go directly to Iray/Chinese defense profits when you buy a scope with a Chinese tube.
Go look on Facebook there are a few groups there that are just iray you’ll get some honest answers and won’t be shamed for buying Chinese. A lot of those guys are claiming they have an excellent image. You could buy 3 for the price of an nvision. Or buy one and have two years of gas money to put in your truck to go hunting.
I do not want to go into this subject making commercial policy considerations. Certainly mathematics teaches us a very simple thing: the greater the percentage of Chinese components (known or hidden) ... the greater the direct or indirect profit that ends up in China .... And here I stop, because i am ignorant of macro-economics and so i don't know if this is a good or bad thing for the economic progression or regression induced in American and European markets....
One sure thing I can tell:
I personally tried Infiray Tube TH50 (which has a very good minimum magnification 3.5X) and is simply fantastic and almost unsurpassed for long distance shooting... where it will be surpassed only by the "monster" Infiray RS75... In truth I prefer the BO Super Yoter/50 (= Infiray Saim SCH50) which is much more compact and more versatile and is good for all distances (as Kirsch teaches us with his beautiful videos...). I also tried the brand new Infiray Mate MAH50 thermal clip-on, the image is really excellent .... finally a compact high-performance clip-on that European hunters will really like (dear American hunting friends ... think I've traveled 550 miles to deliver the first MAH50, arrived in Europe and Italy, personally to a friend in Tuscany, who is in love only with clip-ons !!)
One sure thing I can tell:
I personally tried Infiray Tube TH50 (which has a very good minimum magnification 3.5X) and is simply fantastic and almost unsurpassed for long distance shooting... where it will be surpassed only by the "monster" Infiray RS75... In truth I prefer the BO Super Yoter/50 (= Infiray Saim SCH50) which is much more compact and more versatile and is good for all distances (as Kirsch teaches us with his beautiful videos...). I also tried the brand new Infiray Mate MAH50 thermal clip-on, the image is really excellent .... finally a compact high-performance clip-on that European hunters will really like (dear American hunting friends ... think I've traveled 550 miles to deliver the first MAH50, arrived in Europe and Italy, personally to a friend in Tuscany, who is in love only with clip-ons !!)
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Originally Posted By: devildoggGo look on Facebook there are a few groups there that are just iray you’ll get some honest answers and won’t be shamed for buying Chinese. A lot of those guys are claiming they have an excellent image. You could buy 3 for the price of an nvision. Or buy one and have two years of gas money to put in your truck to go hunting.
Devildoggs, I'm not trying to shame anyone, all I'm saying is when a person buys a Chinese thermal, part of that sale goes DIRECTLY to China and DIRECTLY to the bank account that develops thermal technology for the Chinese military whom is our biggest threat. THAT IS FACTUAL and it amazes me how people don't see the big picture or worse yet don't take the time to look or educate themselves.
I've personally owned 3 different Super Hogsters, 1 Super Yoter, an AGM scanner and an AGM Varmint scope. I've owned my share of Chinese products and speak from experience, they do provide a usable image but as I said before, Pulsar makes a better product at a similar price point IMO and the Chinese scopes are not even close to Nvision or Trijicon. I'm not specifically a fanboy of a certain brand because none of them are perfect but I am a fanboy of quality and American products if I can afford them. I don't sell stuff so I don't have any gain in swaying a purchase but instead of finding "the truth" from an Iray Facebook group, call the major dealers and ask them what the best is, I promise it won't be a Chinese product!
I'm sure there are Facebook groups dedicated to Iray where a person can hear "the thruth" no different than LGBTQ groups telling us "the truth" that its ok for 5 year olds to get sex changes!
Now, back on point to the OP, the best bang for your buck on a great scope that is along the lines of a conventional scope is the Pulsar XG50 that is American made BAE 640 sensor for $3400 at Europtic right now. I know of 3 different friends of mine that has jumped on this deal and love them.
Devildoggs, I'm not trying to shame anyone, all I'm saying is when a person buys a Chinese thermal, part of that sale goes DIRECTLY to China and DIRECTLY to the bank account that develops thermal technology for the Chinese military whom is our biggest threat. THAT IS FACTUAL and it amazes me how people don't see the big picture or worse yet don't take the time to look or educate themselves.
I've personally owned 3 different Super Hogsters, 1 Super Yoter, an AGM scanner and an AGM Varmint scope. I've owned my share of Chinese products and speak from experience, they do provide a usable image but as I said before, Pulsar makes a better product at a similar price point IMO and the Chinese scopes are not even close to Nvision or Trijicon. I'm not specifically a fanboy of a certain brand because none of them are perfect but I am a fanboy of quality and American products if I can afford them. I don't sell stuff so I don't have any gain in swaying a purchase but instead of finding "the truth" from an Iray Facebook group, call the major dealers and ask them what the best is, I promise it won't be a Chinese product!
I'm sure there are Facebook groups dedicated to Iray where a person can hear "the thruth" no different than LGBTQ groups telling us "the truth" that its ok for 5 year olds to get sex changes!
Now, back on point to the OP, the best bang for your buck on a great scope that is along the lines of a conventional scope is the Pulsar XG50 that is American made BAE 640 sensor for $3400 at Europtic right now. I know of 3 different friends of mine that has jumped on this deal and love them.
TH50C compared to a 1280 RS75....its hard to tell the diff in pic but the background sure does look good on that Tube TH50C in comparison IMO.......vid straight from UNV/Iray USA themselves.......do the research guys..... dont let a Johnny Know Nothin off topic posting wind bag mislead you
https://www.facebook.com/reel/639437911096100/?s=single_unit
https://www.facebook.com/reel/639437911096100/?s=single_unit
Originally Posted By: REID2168 dont let a Johnny Know Nothin off topic posting wind bag mislead you
https://www.facebook.com/reel/639437911096100/?s=single_unit
Exactly, and don't let a person that is an Iray fanboy that kills 5 coyotes a year proclaim to be an expert on anything. That sane guy that can't call and shoot a coyote so they post pictures of trapped coyotes. That same person that states they didn't want to talk bad about a manufacturer (Pulsar) yet brings it up in the same thread so they can, even though nobody asked. That same person that has a thread about 2 mutts that only they are posting and responding to for years, that same person that lives in their parents basement that runs their mouth and flies off the handle like a little baby, yeah that guy...
https://www.facebook.com/reel/639437911096100/?s=single_unit
Exactly, and don't let a person that is an Iray fanboy that kills 5 coyotes a year proclaim to be an expert on anything. That sane guy that can't call and shoot a coyote so they post pictures of trapped coyotes. That same person that states they didn't want to talk bad about a manufacturer (Pulsar) yet brings it up in the same thread so they can, even though nobody asked. That same person that has a thread about 2 mutts that only they are posting and responding to for years, that same person that lives in their parents basement that runs their mouth and flies off the handle like a little baby, yeah that guy...
REID2169 thank you very much for the beautiful video you shared. It's very significant. As for the background, you are absolutely right. With the Tube TH50 you can see very well, it's wonderful. However, with the RS75, details are more detailed at target range and the background is blurred. I'm not surprised by all this because optical physics teaches us that a large focal length lens (75 mm) has a much more limited depth of field than a 50 mm lens. In practice it means that, if with the 75 mm lens you put a target in perfect focus at a short distance... at a great distance the image will be completely out of focus. So, in summary, if you want to have a better and more "pleasing" image for the eyes in almost the entire field of view, it is better to use a 50mm lens. Infiray was forced to use a 75mm lens with the 1280x1024@12micron hd sensor... , if they had opted for a 50mm lens they would have obtained a minimum optical magnification of only 1.45X. When the new 1280x1024@8micron sensor arrives, probably next year, we will finally no longer need a large, expensive, bulky, exposed to possible shocks, 75 mm lens. Furthermore we will again have an excellent depth of field, with the image in focus over the entire field of view.
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skinney
Director
Originally Posted By: KirschYou could throw Flir into the mix as well with the exception they don't make civilian scopes any longer as far as potential of US made, and I really don't know where all their manufacturing happens.
Funny you mention this... I spoke with a "fella" in know at FLIR that "was" an employee there as well. He told me some details about them (engineers) tearing into a Matrix III after seeing the performance advantage over the other cores they were testing and evaluating. I'm guessing they are on to something.
Regarding the Ops post, I have been behind the Bolt series and the Thermion series, at my expense for each. Feel free to email me if you want distinct details, I feel it will keep the "butthurt" at a minimum this way.
Funny you mention this... I spoke with a "fella" in know at FLIR that "was" an employee there as well. He told me some details about them (engineers) tearing into a Matrix III after seeing the performance advantage over the other cores they were testing and evaluating. I'm guessing they are on to something.
Regarding the Ops post, I have been behind the Bolt series and the Thermion series, at my expense for each. Feel free to email me if you want distinct details, I feel it will keep the "butthurt" at a minimum this way.
QUEENO
i dont own an Iray im just sick of u running your mouth like u know what u r saying......so more BS u type
i dont kill enough coyotes and miss a lot & post it......correct
i only brought the Pulsar up because they did such a great job getting it back i praised them as they deserved it and the dealer that helped...if it wouldnt have gone well i would never have said it .......your lack of knowing what u r talking about again
i do as well trap coyotes as i like it to be part of my overall season and help train my new dog this year not because i cant call them as i call them just fine and quite a bit actually for the public land i have to use...your jealous BS nothing more
my mutts get more attention pissing on weeds then your hunting vids do as a whole.......your jealousy and we all know it now
i do have a full basement in the home i bought myself at 27.... im 54 now so wrong again as i live upstairs
i never flew off the handle about anything i stated FACTS then u just flew off the handle and thought u needed to berate me after making yourself look like a Johhny Know Nothin hypocritre in another thread for the 4th or 5th time this month...all i did was state the truth...FACT
i dont own an Iray im just sick of u running your mouth like u know what u r saying......so more BS u type
i dont kill enough coyotes and miss a lot & post it......correct
i only brought the Pulsar up because they did such a great job getting it back i praised them as they deserved it and the dealer that helped...if it wouldnt have gone well i would never have said it .......your lack of knowing what u r talking about again
i do as well trap coyotes as i like it to be part of my overall season and help train my new dog this year not because i cant call them as i call them just fine and quite a bit actually for the public land i have to use...your jealous BS nothing more
my mutts get more attention pissing on weeds then your hunting vids do as a whole.......your jealousy and we all know it now
i do have a full basement in the home i bought myself at 27.... im 54 now so wrong again as i live upstairs
i never flew off the handle about anything i stated FACTS then u just flew off the handle and thought u needed to berate me after making yourself look like a Johhny Know Nothin hypocritre in another thread for the 4th or 5th time this month...all i did was state the truth...FACT
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Originally Posted By: skinneyOriginally Posted By: KirschYou could throw Flir into the mix as well with the exception they don't make civilian scopes any longer as far as potential of US made, and I really don't know where all their manufacturing happens.
Funny you mention this... I spoke with a "fella" in know at FLIR that "was" an employee there as well. He told me some details about them (engineers) tearing into a Matrix III after seeing the performance advantage over the other cores they were testing and evaluating. I'm guessing they are on to something.
Regarding the Ops post, I have been behind the Bolt series and the Thermion series, at my expense for each. Feel free to email me if you want distinct details, I feel it will keep the "butthurt" at a minimum this way.
Skinny the whole point of a forum is to share and debate for the better of the sport so if you have experience then post away and don't worry about butthurt, most everyone here except one dude and his babies has thick skin and instead of secretly sharing knowledge via email that does nothing for the forum and other readers, share it in the open please!
Funny you mention this... I spoke with a "fella" in know at FLIR that "was" an employee there as well. He told me some details about them (engineers) tearing into a Matrix III after seeing the performance advantage over the other cores they were testing and evaluating. I'm guessing they are on to something.
Regarding the Ops post, I have been behind the Bolt series and the Thermion series, at my expense for each. Feel free to email me if you want distinct details, I feel it will keep the "butthurt" at a minimum this way.
Skinny the whole point of a forum is to share and debate for the better of the sport so if you have experience then post away and don't worry about butthurt, most everyone here except one dude and his babies has thick skin and instead of secretly sharing knowledge via email that does nothing for the forum and other readers, share it in the open please!
Originally Posted By: REID2168QUEENO
i dont own an Iray im just sick of u running your mouth like u know what u r saying......so more BS u type
i dont kill enough coyotes and miss a lot & post it......correct
i do as well trap coyotes as i like it to be part of my overall season and help train my new dog this year not because i cant call them as i call them just fine and quite a bit actually for the public land i have to use...your jealous BS nothing more
my mutts get more attention pissing on weeds then your hunting vids do as a whole.......your jealousy and we all know it now
i do have a full basement in the home i bought myself at 27.... im 54 now so wrong again as i live upstairs
i never flew off the handle about anything i stated FACTS then u just flew off the handle and thought u needed to berate me after making yourself look like a Johhny Know Nothin hypocritre in another thread for the 4th or 5th time this month...all i did was state the truth...FACT
Here you go again, playing the victim!!! You have the audacity to call me a "Johnnie know nothing " and I never said one single thing about you in this thread, thats why I quoted you. I simply gave my opinions and experiences in this thread as with many other threads, does that give you the right to take a personal jab at me???? Does that give you the right to PM me with all your BS and threats??? I'm not jealous of your 15 follwers on youtube with your 2 mutts and I'm definitely not jealous of your lack to actually call and kill coyotes. You actually have a Pulsar Thermion and instead of posting your experiences, you post a video strait from Iray which clearly shows where you are and post regurgitated information, not from your personal experience. You could have added a lot more information to help people but chose to take a jab.
IMO you got some serious mental issues and like I told you in PM, leave the personal feelings with a therapist and stop with taking a jab and acting like your a victim.
i dont own an Iray im just sick of u running your mouth like u know what u r saying......so more BS u type
i dont kill enough coyotes and miss a lot & post it......correct
i do as well trap coyotes as i like it to be part of my overall season and help train my new dog this year not because i cant call them as i call them just fine and quite a bit actually for the public land i have to use...your jealous BS nothing more
my mutts get more attention pissing on weeds then your hunting vids do as a whole.......your jealousy and we all know it now
i do have a full basement in the home i bought myself at 27.... im 54 now so wrong again as i live upstairs
i never flew off the handle about anything i stated FACTS then u just flew off the handle and thought u needed to berate me after making yourself look like a Johhny Know Nothin hypocritre in another thread for the 4th or 5th time this month...all i did was state the truth...FACT
Here you go again, playing the victim!!! You have the audacity to call me a "Johnnie know nothing " and I never said one single thing about you in this thread, thats why I quoted you. I simply gave my opinions and experiences in this thread as with many other threads, does that give you the right to take a personal jab at me???? Does that give you the right to PM me with all your BS and threats??? I'm not jealous of your 15 follwers on youtube with your 2 mutts and I'm definitely not jealous of your lack to actually call and kill coyotes. You actually have a Pulsar Thermion and instead of posting your experiences, you post a video strait from Iray which clearly shows where you are and post regurgitated information, not from your personal experience. You could have added a lot more information to help people but chose to take a jab.
IMO you got some serious mental issues and like I told you in PM, leave the personal feelings with a therapist and stop with taking a jab and acting like your a victim.
QUEENO cry about China some more ruining another thread then blame it on me cause were sick of hearing it and i told u so...wow the audacity and ignorance u possess is unreal to say the least...tell them how u threaten to beat me up when i PMED u but some how im childish cause i confronted u with the truth nobody else wants to tell u cause they dont have time to listen to u try to explain it away....this thread and your posts are a DIRECT REPEAT of what u did to Chris and James and that thread about RS75 u wanted to make about China and your personal problem u want us all to get on board with and wont stop posting about ruining threads......anyone that can read and has any common sense knows your a mouth running hypocrite....nothin more and your the problem....your just mad cause the TRUTH HURTS THE MOST when u dont want to hear it and i just gave u a full dose....PERIOD
p.s IM NOT A VICTIM I JUST PROVIDE LIGHT ON SUBJECTS.......and i just LIT U UP
p.s IM NOT A VICTIM I JUST PROVIDE LIGHT ON SUBJECTS.......and i just LIT U UP
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REID2168... what I wrote in the other post, on the "subjective" choice for a thermal scanner, also applies exactly to the choice of a thermal riflescope. To explain myself better, I'll give you an example: there are hunting seasons in Croatia, during which only male hogs can be shot. In this case having an Infiray RS75 hd 1280x1024, with a fabulous 75mm lens, with which you see incredible details, allows you to be able to shoot only the males and save the females. So seeing a nice background and having a "gratifying" vision in the whole field of vision doesn't interest you and you absolutely don't need it. So if you ask me: do you prefer a 640 with a 50mm lens or a 1280 with a 75mm lens? I'd answer you: having a budget of $18,000, being forced to do nocturnal selection hunting, I prefer the Infiray RS75 1,000 times...
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