Iray tube scopes
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Originally Posted By: Kino M Their 640 image is not even close to Nvision, Trijicon or the new Pulsar XPs.
It is one thing to say you do not want to support China by purchasing an Iray product. It is another to say the image quality isn’t “even close”. I am sitting here just having scanned my south pasture with both an Iray MK1 and a Halo XRF. They are both excellent. The units are materially different designs, and I think both have their advantages (such as the Halo uses 18650 batteries that are readily available, but the Iray battery compartment design isn’t a giant tumor hanging off the right side of the optic. The white hot provides a clearer image on the iray and the black hot is better in the Halo IMO).
The OP asked about the tubed iray. I don’t have one, but the core that drives it is the real deal. Chinese or not.
It is one thing to say you do not want to support China by purchasing an Iray product. It is another to say the image quality isn’t “even close”. I am sitting here just having scanned my south pasture with both an Iray MK1 and a Halo XRF. They are both excellent. The units are materially different designs, and I think both have their advantages (such as the Halo uses 18650 batteries that are readily available, but the Iray battery compartment design isn’t a giant tumor hanging off the right side of the optic. The white hot provides a clearer image on the iray and the black hot is better in the Halo IMO).
The OP asked about the tubed iray. I don’t have one, but the core that drives it is the real deal. Chinese or not.
Originally Posted By: J GaltOriginally Posted By: Kino M Their 640 image is not even close to Nvision, Trijicon or the new Pulsar XPs.
It is one thing to say you do not want to support China by purchasing an Iray product. It is another to say the image quality isn’t “even close”. I am sitting here just having scanned my south pasture with both an Iray MK1 and a Halo XRF. They are both excellent. The units are materially different designs, and I think both have their advantages (such as the Halo uses 18650 batteries that are readily available, but the Iray battery compartment design isn’t a giant tumor hanging off the right side of the optic. The white hot provides a clearer image on the iray and the black hot is better in the Halo IMO).
The OP asked about the tubed iray. I don’t have one, but the core that drives it is the real deal. Chinese or not.
Very good points. For me it isn't about Chinese or anything like that. On paper the IRAYs rule. That is why I bought one. Unfortunately, in many of our situations they are terrible and I believe strongly it is because their algo is poor. The core and everything else mean nothing if the algo struggles. They fix that and then I don't know why anyone would buy anything else.
I bought an IRAY product, had to have it swapped because it wouldn't hold zero. The 2nd unit had the same issue. I joined the FB Iray owners group and learned that people around the world had the same issues. I took it in the woods and the thing was unusable with terrible flaring. The flaring issue with ALL IRAYS is a real issue. You don't see that in the wide open field videos most post but you will if you look at some of the recent rabbit videos with trees and stuff in the frames.
IRAY OWNERS FB SITE
Recent firmware updates have closed the gap but it is still very wide. The lead engineer on that forum replied, "ya, but what about the price" That was a HUGE tell that they know their algo is inferior. It also did not provide me any reassurance that they have a fix in the short-term.
Let me be clear. All thermals can have issues and all I've tried flare at some point (Ex. Nvision, pulsar, etc..) Some just adjust quicker and better than others. That is the primary thing I am referencing when I note the algo issue. The speed and accuracy with which is processes the thermal activity in front of the lens is very very important. It means everything. It is like having the biggest/baddest computer system with tons of processing power and tons of ram and cooling fans and graphics cards and then the software blows and shows you PONG rather than 3D high end graphics. That is the closest analogy I can provide for those that don't have thermals and are trying to understand the point I am making.
Features, weight, size, mounting options, battery options, etc... the IRAYS are great. They are simply just not there on the algo front for anything other than wide open spaces. That isn't me bashing IRAY, I own one. That is simply the truth. How do I know this? Because of my experience, because other IRAY owners around the world posted the same(I documented some in another thermal post here), and more importantly because the LEAD ENGINEER (JAMES HU) on that forum admitted it. Seriously!
Get a lead engineer from IRAY to post on here or on that FB owners site that they fixed the algo and I'll be happy to buy another IRAY in an instant and recommend them to everyone in ALL situations. For now, I can only recommend them in certain scenarios and EVERYONE should know the issues they face and purchase whatever they want.
My take is this...if you are primarily going to be in the open then there is no reason not to consider an Iray. If you are ever in any wooded area you will likely be disappointed at this time. That is a huge downside for many and a non-issue for others. Really depends on where you use them.
It is one thing to say you do not want to support China by purchasing an Iray product. It is another to say the image quality isn’t “even close”. I am sitting here just having scanned my south pasture with both an Iray MK1 and a Halo XRF. They are both excellent. The units are materially different designs, and I think both have their advantages (such as the Halo uses 18650 batteries that are readily available, but the Iray battery compartment design isn’t a giant tumor hanging off the right side of the optic. The white hot provides a clearer image on the iray and the black hot is better in the Halo IMO).
The OP asked about the tubed iray. I don’t have one, but the core that drives it is the real deal. Chinese or not.
Very good points. For me it isn't about Chinese or anything like that. On paper the IRAYs rule. That is why I bought one. Unfortunately, in many of our situations they are terrible and I believe strongly it is because their algo is poor. The core and everything else mean nothing if the algo struggles. They fix that and then I don't know why anyone would buy anything else.
I bought an IRAY product, had to have it swapped because it wouldn't hold zero. The 2nd unit had the same issue. I joined the FB Iray owners group and learned that people around the world had the same issues. I took it in the woods and the thing was unusable with terrible flaring. The flaring issue with ALL IRAYS is a real issue. You don't see that in the wide open field videos most post but you will if you look at some of the recent rabbit videos with trees and stuff in the frames.
IRAY OWNERS FB SITE
Recent firmware updates have closed the gap but it is still very wide. The lead engineer on that forum replied, "ya, but what about the price" That was a HUGE tell that they know their algo is inferior. It also did not provide me any reassurance that they have a fix in the short-term.
Let me be clear. All thermals can have issues and all I've tried flare at some point (Ex. Nvision, pulsar, etc..) Some just adjust quicker and better than others. That is the primary thing I am referencing when I note the algo issue. The speed and accuracy with which is processes the thermal activity in front of the lens is very very important. It means everything. It is like having the biggest/baddest computer system with tons of processing power and tons of ram and cooling fans and graphics cards and then the software blows and shows you PONG rather than 3D high end graphics. That is the closest analogy I can provide for those that don't have thermals and are trying to understand the point I am making.
Features, weight, size, mounting options, battery options, etc... the IRAYS are great. They are simply just not there on the algo front for anything other than wide open spaces. That isn't me bashing IRAY, I own one. That is simply the truth. How do I know this? Because of my experience, because other IRAY owners around the world posted the same(I documented some in another thermal post here), and more importantly because the LEAD ENGINEER (JAMES HU) on that forum admitted it. Seriously!
Get a lead engineer from IRAY to post on here or on that FB owners site that they fixed the algo and I'll be happy to buy another IRAY in an instant and recommend them to everyone in ALL situations. For now, I can only recommend them in certain scenarios and EVERYONE should know the issues they face and purchase whatever they want.
My take is this...if you are primarily going to be in the open then there is no reason not to consider an Iray. If you are ever in any wooded area you will likely be disappointed at this time. That is a huge downside for many and a non-issue for others. Really depends on where you use them.
Here are some examples of the flaring I am referencing from the Iray FB owners site and my Iray product:
See the trees in front flaring the same color as the rabbit. Then look at the flaring in the field above the rabbit in the pic on the right. This is not my pic, this is from the FB site
Now, here is one example of my experience with the RL25 in a field that is generally wide open with a tree nearby
Same flaring, different product. Almost exact same result from two very different parts of the world with Iray products.
Usable in the open but take these different IRAYS in the woods and the IRAY is almost unusable. Even when you can get it to work you spend way too much time constantly changing the settings to just try to get a decent image.
I take a pulsar helion 2 xp50 in super thick woods and this what I see with no adjustments.
I can get the helion to flare, but it is still very different. Trees red but deer very different and pop out at you
See the trees in front flaring the same color as the rabbit. Then look at the flaring in the field above the rabbit in the pic on the right. This is not my pic, this is from the FB site
Now, here is one example of my experience with the RL25 in a field that is generally wide open with a tree nearby
Same flaring, different product. Almost exact same result from two very different parts of the world with Iray products.
Usable in the open but take these different IRAYS in the woods and the IRAY is almost unusable. Even when you can get it to work you spend way too much time constantly changing the settings to just try to get a decent image.
I take a pulsar helion 2 xp50 in super thick woods and this what I see with no adjustments.
I can get the helion to flare, but it is still very different. Trees red but deer very different and pop out at you
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Originally Posted By: J GaltOriginally Posted By: Kino M Their 640 image is not even close to Nvision, Trijicon or the new Pulsar XPs.
It is one thing to say you do not want to support China by purchasing an Iray product. It is another to say the image quality isn’t “even close”. I am sitting here just having scanned my south pasture with both an Iray MK1 and a Halo XRF. They are both excellent. The units are materially different designs, and I think both have their advantages (such as the Halo uses 18650 batteries that are readily available, but the Iray battery compartment design isn’t a giant tumor hanging off the right side of the optic. The white hot provides a clearer image on the iray and the black hot is better in the Halo IMO).
The OP asked about the tubed iray. I don’t have one, but the core that drives it is the real deal. Chinese or not.
JGalt, just because it has the same core, isn't always the end all be all. A perfect example is I owned the Suoer Yoter for a season, killed a lot stuff with it and got to learn the settings very well. IMO it isn't even close to the the image of the Nvision or the Pulsar Thermion if you really pick apart what your looking at. The background is very washed out and everything always seemed out of contrast, the more humid it was the worse it got. Another thing is I'm a black hot guy, if you look at my videos I post you will see I'm shooting black hot so maybe that's more of the equation.
I see you live in Montana, which depending on where you are is usually pretty cold and dry. I hunt the highline a lot and the conditions are nowhere near as humid or warm day in and out as the climate I live, in the Ohio River Valley and that humidity plays a big difference as well. My Super Yoter looks good up there, looks like poo poo here at times when its side by side with an Nvision or Trijicon.
One other thing that nobody has touched on is video compression and quality. I don't know if the compression rate is the same on Iray as it is for Bering but there's a tremendous difference in video quality between what I'm running now, the Yoter I had, and different guys Thermion videos they post. Ray Charles can see the difference there! Videos might not be important to some but if it is, there is a drastic difference so a person needs to look at the different videos out there and not just the ones filmed at base mag in ideal conditions.
Apologies to the OP as this thread has taken some turns, I still think the Thermion is a much better purchase than the Iray, good luck on whatever you decide.
It is one thing to say you do not want to support China by purchasing an Iray product. It is another to say the image quality isn’t “even close”. I am sitting here just having scanned my south pasture with both an Iray MK1 and a Halo XRF. They are both excellent. The units are materially different designs, and I think both have their advantages (such as the Halo uses 18650 batteries that are readily available, but the Iray battery compartment design isn’t a giant tumor hanging off the right side of the optic. The white hot provides a clearer image on the iray and the black hot is better in the Halo IMO).
The OP asked about the tubed iray. I don’t have one, but the core that drives it is the real deal. Chinese or not.
JGalt, just because it has the same core, isn't always the end all be all. A perfect example is I owned the Suoer Yoter for a season, killed a lot stuff with it and got to learn the settings very well. IMO it isn't even close to the the image of the Nvision or the Pulsar Thermion if you really pick apart what your looking at. The background is very washed out and everything always seemed out of contrast, the more humid it was the worse it got. Another thing is I'm a black hot guy, if you look at my videos I post you will see I'm shooting black hot so maybe that's more of the equation.
I see you live in Montana, which depending on where you are is usually pretty cold and dry. I hunt the highline a lot and the conditions are nowhere near as humid or warm day in and out as the climate I live, in the Ohio River Valley and that humidity plays a big difference as well. My Super Yoter looks good up there, looks like poo poo here at times when its side by side with an Nvision or Trijicon.
One other thing that nobody has touched on is video compression and quality. I don't know if the compression rate is the same on Iray as it is for Bering but there's a tremendous difference in video quality between what I'm running now, the Yoter I had, and different guys Thermion videos they post. Ray Charles can see the difference there! Videos might not be important to some but if it is, there is a drastic difference so a person needs to look at the different videos out there and not just the ones filmed at base mag in ideal conditions.
Apologies to the OP as this thread has taken some turns, I still think the Thermion is a much better purchase than the Iray, good luck on whatever you decide.
Here are others across the globe talking about the issue. IRAY FB page detailing flaring issue
Here are some of their actual remarks if you don't want to click the link:
Here are some of their actual remarks if you don't want to click the link:
Kino,
I’m not saying that you haven’t had issues. I am simply relating my experiences with the optics I own and use all the time. I am sure that environmental conditions play a huge role in performance, and in mine, Iray and nvision products function very well. I like them both a lot. Yes, I am in mostly wide open country on hay ground or prairie. The Iray is pretty great there. So is the Halo.
I’m not saying that you haven’t had issues. I am simply relating my experiences with the optics I own and use all the time. I am sure that environmental conditions play a huge role in performance, and in mine, Iray and nvision products function very well. I like them both a lot. Yes, I am in mostly wide open country on hay ground or prairie. The Iray is pretty great there. So is the Halo.
Many of their units don't hold zero. James Hu acknowledged it is a firmware issue in this thread:
IRAY not holding zero
This is the same issue I have on my RL25. IRAY USA swapped it quickly and the new unit has the same issue. I hope they put out a firmware update for the RL25 like they did for the td50L. But nobody indicated yet whether the firmware corrected the issue so who knows?
A poster on another forum suggested the RL25 could be used as a clip-on in front of a scope despite Iray saying only the RH25 could do that because of the magnification. I tried it and it worked but with very limited field of view. That is my work-around for now until Iray fixes the issue.
IRAY not holding zero
This is the same issue I have on my RL25. IRAY USA swapped it quickly and the new unit has the same issue. I hope they put out a firmware update for the RL25 like they did for the td50L. But nobody indicated yet whether the firmware corrected the issue so who knows?
A poster on another forum suggested the RL25 could be used as a clip-on in front of a scope despite Iray saying only the RH25 could do that because of the magnification. I tried it and it worked but with very limited field of view. That is my work-around for now until Iray fixes the issue.
PING, thanks for posting all this stuff from actual Iray owners, including yourself voicing the image issues/challenges, they are exactly my experience with my Super Yoter and the contrast.
I think when people upgrade to 640, they are wowed because they was used to a 384, or worse yet its their first thermal. People also have a HUGE misconception that all comperable cores are the same. There's a big difference when algorithm and software verion comes in, even with the same core!
It takes time for the excitement of a new toy to wear down before most people can really knit pick a scope.. Unless you have different brands to compare side by side in hunting conditions vs. 5 minutes in a store, people have no clue what they really have, its shortcomings and strong points.
Again, we haven't touched much at all of video quality of the major brands but today I was looking at some of my videos last year from my Super Yoter and honestly its kinda painful to watch compared to what I'm running now!! I get videos might not be important to some, but there is a TREMENDOUS amount of improvement that Bering and other Chinese scope brands could improve on for their customers.
I think when people upgrade to 640, they are wowed because they was used to a 384, or worse yet its their first thermal. People also have a HUGE misconception that all comperable cores are the same. There's a big difference when algorithm and software verion comes in, even with the same core!
It takes time for the excitement of a new toy to wear down before most people can really knit pick a scope.. Unless you have different brands to compare side by side in hunting conditions vs. 5 minutes in a store, people have no clue what they really have, its shortcomings and strong points.
Again, we haven't touched much at all of video quality of the major brands but today I was looking at some of my videos last year from my Super Yoter and honestly its kinda painful to watch compared to what I'm running now!! I get videos might not be important to some, but there is a TREMENDOUS amount of improvement that Bering and other Chinese scope brands could improve on for their customers.
"Here are others across the globe talking about the issue. IRAY FB page detailing flaring issue"
PING...ask friends in IRAY FB group if they installed this firmware update on Infiray Finder FH35R scanner.... Since I installed it on my FH35R (it's just amazing) I never had any "flaring" problem again. You can see very well and distinguish perfectly the chamois and deer from the rocks, both in the open field and in wooded environments. As I have already written in other posts, the slightly higher value of Netd
PING...ask friends in IRAY FB group if they installed this firmware update on Infiray Finder FH35R scanner.... Since I installed it on my FH35R (it's just amazing) I never had any "flaring" problem again. You can see very well and distinguish perfectly the chamois and deer from the rocks, both in the open field and in wooded environments. As I have already written in other posts, the slightly higher value of Netd
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Originally Posted By: PINGMany of their units don't hold zero.
I have definitely not had this issue. I bought the ADM QD and have had no issues swapping optics. None. The iray sits on a 204 AR build that hammers day and night.
Some have had issues with an NVision Halo XRF software. (https://www.snipershide.com/shooting/threads/halo-xrf-issues-resolutions.7108734/), looks like nvision also acknowledged a firmware issue here, but I have not experienced these either although mine was purchased a few months later.
My point is that when it comes to dudes mounting optics and variables between you, me and everyone else, it is hard to say that the only issue is iray (or NVision). Sometimes it is firmware, sometimes it is me. When you layer in all the potential failure points of an electro optic, it is even more complex to solve.
I’m out on this debate now, if someone has a question or wants to know anything more about what I see through these specific optics, shoot me a message. I now see why skinney said that earlier.
For the record, both optics work pretty well for me. I am happy with both purchases and both dealers I selected. Awesome people with solid products.
I have definitely not had this issue. I bought the ADM QD and have had no issues swapping optics. None. The iray sits on a 204 AR build that hammers day and night.
Some have had issues with an NVision Halo XRF software. (https://www.snipershide.com/shooting/threads/halo-xrf-issues-resolutions.7108734/), looks like nvision also acknowledged a firmware issue here, but I have not experienced these either although mine was purchased a few months later.
My point is that when it comes to dudes mounting optics and variables between you, me and everyone else, it is hard to say that the only issue is iray (or NVision). Sometimes it is firmware, sometimes it is me. When you layer in all the potential failure points of an electro optic, it is even more complex to solve.
I’m out on this debate now, if someone has a question or wants to know anything more about what I see through these specific optics, shoot me a message. I now see why skinney said that earlier.
For the record, both optics work pretty well for me. I am happy with both purchases and both dealers I selected. Awesome people with solid products.
P&Y
Member
Having owned both I agree with Kino 100% and Ping's algo analogy is spot on. The NVision image is vastly superior to the Iray in my experience.
One important aspect I didn't see mentioned is how the Iray also needs to be manually focused constantly whereas the NVision never does. I am comparing the IRay's imagine in the special moments one has it perfectly focused. Interestingly I always hunt in open country where the Iray is at its best. My older Pulsar Helion has a much better image than the Iray as well.
For the record I am not happy with either purchases or dealers I selected LOL
One important aspect I didn't see mentioned is how the Iray also needs to be manually focused constantly whereas the NVision never does. I am comparing the IRay's imagine in the special moments one has it perfectly focused. Interestingly I always hunt in open country where the Iray is at its best. My older Pulsar Helion has a much better image than the Iray as well.
For the record I am not happy with either purchases or dealers I selected LOL
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topwater225
New member
I have a Bolt TH50-C coming and I can't wait!!
topwater225
New member
I received the BOLT today and only mounted it and did all the initial setup. The timing is good as I spent the last two nights hunting behind a buddy's Thermion XG 50, so it's giving me something "high end" to compare to. So far it's phenomenal, I'll be zeroing it here in the next day or so, and I will give my feedback.
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