Is a red dot faster than a bead on a shotgun?
- Thread starter leebrown
- Start date
I'm just an ole river rat that been shooting for about 58 years, an I know I am sure the odd man out here. I've shot quail, doves, pheasants, ducks, geese, rabbits, coyotes and when it comes to shooting fast targets, half the time I don't even see the barrel. My left hand tells me more about the game. If I take the time to use the sight, which I have done, I assure you I will assuredly miss. I know this goes against the grain of shotgun shooting, but it's too late for me to change.
Ole Dog
Ole Dog
coleridge
Active member
If your "aiming" a shotgun at a moving target, your about to miss...
Shotgunning is about focusing on your target & knowing were to point. The bead is there but your not paying much attention to it. Just a reference point.
When pointing your finger at a bird, it's instinctive & you just do it (your not lining your fingernail up with your eyeball).
Aim a rifle, point a shotgun. For stationary targets, slugs or EXTREMELY tight turkey chokes -maybe-. For flying, diving, looping, cutting, dodging targets, I don't want a [beeep] thing obstructing my view....
Shotgunning is about focusing on your target & knowing were to point. The bead is there but your not paying much attention to it. Just a reference point.
When pointing your finger at a bird, it's instinctive & you just do it (your not lining your fingernail up with your eyeball).
Aim a rifle, point a shotgun. For stationary targets, slugs or EXTREMELY tight turkey chokes -maybe-. For flying, diving, looping, cutting, dodging targets, I don't want a [beeep] thing obstructing my view....
GC
Well-known member
Originally Posted By: Ole dogI'm just an ole river rat that been shooting for about 58 years, an I know I am sure the odd man out here. I've shot quail, doves, pheasants, ducks, geese, rabbits, coyotes and when it comes to shooting fast targets, half the time I don't even see the barrel. My left hand tells me more about the game. If I take the time to use the sight, which I have done, I assure you I will assuredly miss. I know this goes against the grain of shotgun shooting, but it's too late for me to change.
Ole Dog
You are doing it right... For moving critters you should have a hard focus on the target, not on the bead.
Ole Dog
You are doing it right... For moving critters you should have a hard focus on the target, not on the bead.
tnshootist
New member
I put a red dot on and tried it, shot good, took it off and put on an eotech, shot good, took it off and went back to plain barrel, shoots better. And most of all it aint got anything sticking out to get tangled in vines. The whole point of a shotgun here is thickets and the less stuff sticking out the better.
For shooting moving target, I agree with the bead guys, or the no bead guys. I never see the bead and most of the time I'm not conscious of the barrel(s.) Though you don't see the bead or the barrels your subconscious does and knows where the barrel is pointing, while you consciously focus on the target.
Focus on the bead, barrels or a red dot or something other than the target and you are about to miss, as someone pointed out.
For a close, stationary target a bead is fine, an open sight better, a holographic or scope better yet. The farther the stationary target the more the optics help.
BTW, I hunt ducks in some of the nastiest salt mash you could find. Hunkered down, hiding, feet stuck in sucking mud... Still focusing on the target, still killing them, even when they're humping downwind at 40 or 50mph ground speed.
JPK
JPK
Focus on the bead, barrels or a red dot or something other than the target and you are about to miss, as someone pointed out.
For a close, stationary target a bead is fine, an open sight better, a holographic or scope better yet. The farther the stationary target the more the optics help.
BTW, I hunt ducks in some of the nastiest salt mash you could find. Hunkered down, hiding, feet stuck in sucking mud... Still focusing on the target, still killing them, even when they're humping downwind at 40 or 50mph ground speed.
JPK
JPK
GC
Well-known member
JPK,
It's when we try to make our shotguns into rifles that we need to be most precise. I'm guilty of that, tight patterns and reaching for the maximum range has been my thing for coyotes and turkeys. Obviously not great for close range fast movers. Directing a tight swarm of shot at a light bulb sized target requires more precision. Turkeys are seldom fast movers for us spring gobbler hunters. I've not had much trouble hitting coyotes with tight patterns from a bead only shotgun.
However... A couple years ago I missed the first gobbler I have missed in many years. The old bird was under twenty yards and pretty intent on keeping a couple of subordinate toms in line. Just as I pulled the trigger I was aware he jerked his head away to peck at one of his buddies and my softball sized pattern whizzed by to the left. The gobbler gaggle spooked at the shot and began long legging through the timber for the crest of the ridge and I panicked and missed with shot number two. One of the two year olds was at the back and separated by about five yards when I finally got my act together. Focusing hard on the out stretched head I swung through and crushed the trigger of the Benelli. Tumbled him... Glass on top wouldn't have prevented the miss or helped with the running shot through the timber. It did remind me that I can open my pattern late in the season when everything is greened up and ranges are closer.
I missed a coyote at twelve yards a couple years ago also. I called him directly to me while hand calling. He was a hard charger bearing down on me like a rocket. I would have shot him sooner but my son was set up about ten yards to my left and the shot was supposed to be his. He couldn't get on that fast moving coyote flashing through the timber with his scoped rifle. Finally in desperation as the coyote streaked by at around ten yards my son took a shot and missed. I was staring down the rib right on that big males head when my son shot. As soon as I heard the shot I snapped a shot at the head of the coyote as it wheeled and spun back down the mountain. I missed, but a follow up at about twenty five yards took the rear wheels out and a third shot in the chest sealed the deal. Familiar story to my turkey episode.
Optics help turkey or predator hunters (not upland game/small game, waterfowl or wingshooting games) when there is a point of impact/point of aim issue that shims or gun fit can't help. Or when a shooter has poor shooting form or bad habits they can't break. Otherwise it's just more weight or bulk and something else to go wrong bolted on to the gun. In my opinion of course...
It's when we try to make our shotguns into rifles that we need to be most precise. I'm guilty of that, tight patterns and reaching for the maximum range has been my thing for coyotes and turkeys. Obviously not great for close range fast movers. Directing a tight swarm of shot at a light bulb sized target requires more precision. Turkeys are seldom fast movers for us spring gobbler hunters. I've not had much trouble hitting coyotes with tight patterns from a bead only shotgun.
However... A couple years ago I missed the first gobbler I have missed in many years. The old bird was under twenty yards and pretty intent on keeping a couple of subordinate toms in line. Just as I pulled the trigger I was aware he jerked his head away to peck at one of his buddies and my softball sized pattern whizzed by to the left. The gobbler gaggle spooked at the shot and began long legging through the timber for the crest of the ridge and I panicked and missed with shot number two. One of the two year olds was at the back and separated by about five yards when I finally got my act together. Focusing hard on the out stretched head I swung through and crushed the trigger of the Benelli. Tumbled him... Glass on top wouldn't have prevented the miss or helped with the running shot through the timber. It did remind me that I can open my pattern late in the season when everything is greened up and ranges are closer.
I missed a coyote at twelve yards a couple years ago also. I called him directly to me while hand calling. He was a hard charger bearing down on me like a rocket. I would have shot him sooner but my son was set up about ten yards to my left and the shot was supposed to be his. He couldn't get on that fast moving coyote flashing through the timber with his scoped rifle. Finally in desperation as the coyote streaked by at around ten yards my son took a shot and missed. I was staring down the rib right on that big males head when my son shot. As soon as I heard the shot I snapped a shot at the head of the coyote as it wheeled and spun back down the mountain. I missed, but a follow up at about twenty five yards took the rear wheels out and a third shot in the chest sealed the deal. Familiar story to my turkey episode.
Optics help turkey or predator hunters (not upland game/small game, waterfowl or wingshooting games) when there is a point of impact/point of aim issue that shims or gun fit can't help. Or when a shooter has poor shooting form or bad habits they can't break. Otherwise it's just more weight or bulk and something else to go wrong bolted on to the gun. In my opinion of course...
Originally Posted By: coleridgeIf your "aiming" a shotgun at a moving target, your about to miss...
Shotgunning is about focusing on your target & knowing were to point. The bead is there but your not paying much attention to it. Just a reference point.
When pointing your finger at a bird, it's instinctive & you just do it (your not lining your fingernail up with your eyeball).
Aim a rifle, point a shotgun. For stationary targets, slugs or EXTREMELY tight turkey chokes -maybe-. For flying, diving, looping, cutting, dodging targets, I don't want a [beeep] thing obstructing my view....
AA, 27 yard trapshooter here. These are the basics of shotgunning. Make the shotgun fit and learn the basics. What GC has said is also correct. Also, shoot with both eyes open. Why limit yourself to only half of your vision?
Shotgunning is about focusing on your target & knowing were to point. The bead is there but your not paying much attention to it. Just a reference point.
When pointing your finger at a bird, it's instinctive & you just do it (your not lining your fingernail up with your eyeball).
Aim a rifle, point a shotgun. For stationary targets, slugs or EXTREMELY tight turkey chokes -maybe-. For flying, diving, looping, cutting, dodging targets, I don't want a [beeep] thing obstructing my view....
AA, 27 yard trapshooter here. These are the basics of shotgunning. Make the shotgun fit and learn the basics. What GC has said is also correct. Also, shoot with both eyes open. Why limit yourself to only half of your vision?
Originally Posted By: pk1Originally Posted By: coleridgeIf your "aiming" a shotgun at a moving target, your about to miss...
Shotgunning is about focusing on your target & knowing were to point. The bead is there but your not paying much attention to it. Just a reference point.
When pointing your finger at a bird, it's instinctive & you just do it (your not lining your fingernail up with your eyeball).
Aim a rifle, point a shotgun. For stationary targets, slugs or EXTREMELY tight turkey chokes -maybe-. For flying, diving, looping, cutting, dodging targets, I don't want a [beeep] thing obstructing my view....
AA, 27 yard trapshooter here. These are the basics of shotgunning. Make the shotgun fit and learn the basics. What GC has said is also correct. Also, shoot with both eyes open. Why limit yourself to only half of your vision?
Made the 27yd line by 16. Good point about both eyes open-with a rifle as well. With one eye closed you lose your depth perception.
Shotgunning is about focusing on your target & knowing were to point. The bead is there but your not paying much attention to it. Just a reference point.
When pointing your finger at a bird, it's instinctive & you just do it (your not lining your fingernail up with your eyeball).
Aim a rifle, point a shotgun. For stationary targets, slugs or EXTREMELY tight turkey chokes -maybe-. For flying, diving, looping, cutting, dodging targets, I don't want a [beeep] thing obstructing my view....
AA, 27 yard trapshooter here. These are the basics of shotgunning. Make the shotgun fit and learn the basics. What GC has said is also correct. Also, shoot with both eyes open. Why limit yourself to only half of your vision?
Made the 27yd line by 16. Good point about both eyes open-with a rifle as well. With one eye closed you lose your depth perception.
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