Is cleaning overrated???

sleddogg,
That is pretty good shooting ESPECIALLY with those rifle conditions. (i.e. no improvements from the shelf) I would be satisfied with that on any day of the week. As for the speed demons go, I have a 22-250 that hates to be cleaned worse than my dog does. (and thats bad!) After about 125 down the pipe she needs wiped out, and then it takes 15-20 shots to get her calmed down again. She sure will print the groups for the next hundred shots or so, then its back to the range for some dirty work.

BANDIT
 
Nice shooting and nice yotes as well, sleddogg!!

I clean mine when the groups say it needs cleaned.
My cheap Marlin 17hmr will take a lot of shots before needing cleaned!

Tim
 
I clean to maintain resale values and to maintain function. I'm much more concerned about hidden rust and a smooth action. Then again, I've never shot for points.
 
My 22-250 will go about 200 rounds or so between cleanings. It has been shot alot. I have cleaned it 4 times this year alone. I am shooting 2 main loads in it. 52's and 55's at 3700 and ~3600 respectively via 36 gr of varget.

Its another topic but I ran 4064 in the 250 for a little less than 200 rounds (1 pound of powder) and it seemed to shoot much "cleaner" than the current batch of varget does.

My cleaning process goes like this, spray wipe-out in the barrel. Let it set overnight. Run a few patches through it in the morning til they come out clean. I use high quality rods (all my rods are 1 piece) and bore guides.

I am just waiting for this barrel to go [beeep] up on me. I have a pac-nor all picked out. Maybe if I clean it more it will go faster.LOL
 
I also have a savage 308 that will only get about 60 rounds or so through it before it gets squirrely on me. After cleaning it takes another 5-10 before it settles down again. I guess I cant complain too much about a 15$ factory barrel though. A new barrel for that rifle is high up on my list of gun purchases.
 
I don't think sleddogg posted at what range he made that group from and whether it was benchrest or not. Without that information it's hard to criticize his shooting. Either way, he's a better shot than me and I'm still confident in my shooting.

It may be an old military habit, but if I fire even one round through one of my firearms, that firearm gets cleaned when I get home.
 
sleddog,

I was just gonna mention what you & Pruson said in your last posts.

It isn't so much in the powder fouling, as it is in the copper fouling. Also, the smaller the bore diameter, the worse, or quicker you see the deterioration in accuracy from copper fouling, mainly.
In other words, a .308 might shoot longer dirty, with decent accuracy, than say, a .223. My hunting partner has his .17 Rem. that he has spent plenty of bench time with. He has mentioned more than once that using regular jacketed bullets, he can't go more than 20rnds. before accuracy drops off noticeably. Since he switched to using moly's in it, he can go 50 or so, before it needs a scrubbing. If you're shooting over a chronograph, you'll also see velocities start climbing as bore fouling becomes worse. ES and SD numbers also appear to fluctuate from string to string as more shots are fired, seemingly indicating that fouling is having an affect on the load somewhat.

Pruson...
Since you mentioned the .204, I'm working up loads for my father in law's Ruger now, and it's the same as you mentioned. After 20-30rnds., if you don't clean it, you start getting fliers. Once cleaned, with a couple of foulers, it returns to what it was. This is a critical observation when building loads for a gun.

I like shooting those tiny little groups just like the next guy. But, even though, as a general rule, a gun might shoot it's "best" groups when it's cleaned, with a fouling shot for good measure, realistically, hunting accuracy doesn't have to be benchrest quality.
Some guns might shoot 1/2" groups following a good cleaning, and after a good number of shots, only shoot 3/4 to 1" and stay put at that point throughout. If it's acceptible to you & your hunting needs, so be it.
Who's to judge otherwise ?

Doing load testing, or range work, I like to clean my guns every 30-50rnds as a rule. But, once my guns and loads are "tuned", I might go a whole season of hunting before I thoroughly clean the gun. A wet swab of the bore, followed by dry patching, is sometimes done mid-term though. And if I have to re-check a scopes zero, I'll do a total clean at that time. But that's a rarity.

Mainly, I like my guns clean, as "I believe" it allows the best chance for accuracy, and that if done correctly, it allows a longer accurate barrel life.
But, that being said, it's a "to each his own" situation really, and what is acceptable to the individual.

Take care,
Bob
 
Quote:

It may be an old military habit, but if I fire even one round through one of my firearms, that firearm gets cleaned when I get home.



I was an 11B20 for 4 years. We cleaned our weapons much like you describe. Now, if any of my personal rifles were in the shape our M4's and 240's were I would cringe. I would love to look down a few of them bores with a bore scope. Do I wipe down rifles after using them, Yes if they need it. Do I clean and scrub the bore regularly, No. You have to love cleaning and break-in threads. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

It depends what an individuals defination of cleaning is. My defination of cleaning a barrel is when I have to remove copper and carbon fouling. Copper fouling is another of those discussion that could span a few pages.

Is it coyote season yet. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smiliesmack.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif
 
For the guys that clean regularly.

How does this affect you CBS?

When my yote rifle is dirty (which is most of the time) the cbs is usually within 3/4 MOA of the rest of my shots.

How about your CCBS?

The same rifle throws the ccbs up to 1 1/2 MOA out of the group. I never hunt with the rifle with a clean bore.

Handgunr, There are some good points in your post. It is a to each his own situation. I really dont give much thought to barrel life on a factory tube. I dont expect barrels to last forever. I like to think of them as an expense much like reloading my own ammo. My better half complained about my last barrel purchase, I told her I could spend that money going out to the bars with my buddies if she would like that more. She found no humor in it. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif

I have a Broughton 8tw on order now that she doesn't even know about. Gonna chamber it in 223AI and drop into a McM M40A-1 Handle. Anyone got any tips on sneaking rifles in the house?
 
Quote:
I have a Broughton 8tw on order now that she doesn't even know about. Gonna chamber it in 223AI and drop into a McM M40A-1 Handle. Anyone got any tips on sneaking rifles in the house?



Buy her a new rug, and sneak it thru in the roll. LMAO. I overheard a clerk at a gunshop tell a guy to just buy a safe, and put the gun in it before it was delivered- that way, she thinks its free. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smiliesmack.gif
 
Hey, a fellow 11B. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grinning-smiley-003.gif Spent 7 1/2 years in. Kirchgoens, Fort Stewart, Baumholder, and finally Fort Carson.

I don't clean them to the standards that some military units have, such as Q-tips to every nook and crany, but I do remove all fouling that could interfere with the operation of the firearm. The bore, bolt face, extractor, trigger mechanism, and anything else that may have carbon or copper fouling. I know leaving it on can allow it to harden and be more difficult to remove later.

In any kind of auto-loading firearm, cleaning is even more important to insure proper operation.
 
Quote:
I don't think sleddogg posted at what range he made that group from and whether it was benchrest or not.



That group was shot at exactly the 100 yard mark. I was bench shooting with good bags, a solid bench and seat. Conditions were perfect with no wind. Good as it gets for shootin' a nice group /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif

I do have good, solid Leopold rings, and a clear Nikon 3 x 9 that allows good shot placement. The only things on the 700 that aren't factory is I have done the trigger myself, and its pretty sweet. Breaks clean at 3 pounds, as I don't like an ultra light trigger on a hunting gun, but there is ZERO creep. I added a youth stock, as even though I'm six feet, I prefer a short LOP, especially when I pile on the clothes for hunting, and that scope pushes away from your shoulder.

But back to cleaning, I'm beginning to see a trend where fellas are having to clean the speedier rounds. Pruson mentions alot of cleaning with his 204's. Well thats enough to make me not buy one right there /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

As mentioned above my favorite 223 Rem handload is only traveling about 3200 FPS. Its pretty much all I shoot out of this gun, as the accuracy was good enough that I never messed with it, and it kills coyotes OK for a 223.

I just picked up a used 22-250, but am still in my load development stage with it. Just haven't hit on "the load" for it yet. But once I do, I won't clean it and see what happens.

If I have to clean this 22-250 every 50 rounds to keep it shooting MOA, I will probably just go back to my 223's. That 223 keeps my trackin' skills sharp as well /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grinning-smiley-006.gif But thats a whole 'nuther post.................

I have alot of one-off, remote places to practice, and to shoot over a hundred rounds (or more)on a gun in an afternoon is very common, so I spend alot of time handloading. Hate to have to spend a bunch of time cleaning also. Maybe the cleaning is just overrated for slow rounds.

So I guess fast rounds = lots of cleaning? I'm starting to like that 223 more every minute /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grinning-smiley-003.gif

Thanks for the info guys, I'm learnin' alot from this post, and I think you just saved me some money on a new round /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif Man I HATE cleaning guns /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grinning-smiley-006.gif
 
Good thread. I was wondering if I was the only one here that didn't like the smell of Shooters Choice &/or Sweet's. (don't really mind the smell, just HATE CLEANING).

I've seen several cloverleafs shot from rifles with 40-100rds down the tube. Never went to 2-3000 though /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush.gif wow.

Thanks for the post, good luck with that trashy gun /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif


Just as a side note... Can anyone here shoot a better group than that (even with a benchgrade rifle) sitting on there @$$ off a pair of shooting sticks (real world hunting situation)? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smiliesmack.gif I think sometimes we all get a little carried away. I mean just imagine what that thing would do if you cleaned it. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grinning-smiley-006.gif
 
I for one had rather spend time shooting than cleaning. I don't think much of those so-called break-in processes either! Some barrels foul for some reason and require cleaning. If I had one of those, would sell the rifle and get another one.

I believe in cleaning them when they need it. My competition pistols would go 1500 rds before they told me a cleaning was needed. My varmint rigs will go about 4 or 500 rds before extreme accuracy starts to open up. A rifle used for just predator hunting for most folks could go years without cleaning the barrels. However, do believe in cleaning them off on the exterior when in bad weather.

I generally clean the barrel on a new rifle out of the box and then shoot the hell out of it. When done, clean it and put it up.
 
Quote:
sleddogg,
That is pretty good shooting ESPECIALLY with those rifle conditions. (i.e. no improvements from the shelf) I would be satisfied with that on any day of the week. As for the speed demons go, I have a 22-250 that hates to be cleaned worse than my dog does. (and thats bad!) After about 125 down the pipe she needs wiped out, and then it takes 15-20 shots to get her calmed down again. She sure will print the groups for the next hundred shots or so, then its back to the range for some dirty work.

BANDIT



My 22-250 is the same and i shoot 1" groups at 200 yards and kill yotes all year long /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grinning-smiley-003.gif
 
My old Ruger 25-06 hated cleaning also, and I disliked doing it because it would take 20-30 rounds to get it to settle down again.

My Bushmaster v-match bore had never been cleaned till this last summer, I'm guessing between 1,500 and 1,700 rounds. The groups before and after cleaning where vitually identical.

I had a Rem. 700 VS in .223 that needed cleaned every 100 rnds.

I only clean if it's needed, and that is dictated by the individual firearm.
 
Barrel break I believe in. I think some that have problems with theri guns and not liked to be cleaned and needing multiple rounds to get groups back I'm betting never broke in there barrels with 3 shot groups and then cleaned for the first 50 rounds or so?

I know 2 very good 1,000 yrd compition shooters and they and many others they compete with clean often. When dealing with fast rounds and small bores what happens with all the fouling? I have a hard time believeing in 1,000 or 1,500 rounds going down a 22 cal barrel at high speeds and accuracy not being effected.

A guy I know had his 22-250 went 200 or so rounds then cleaned on paper after cleaning that gun shot 4" high and 3" left. The copper,powder residue does build up and carbon buildup can be bad on your chamber, and you need more than solvent to get rid of this after it as been under pressure and heat from firing. My 1,000 yrd friends gace me a product told me to clean my gun until patches came out really clean then run a few patches of this and scrub the chamber and the barrel 2" at a time, I was amazed at the carbon that came out! I clean my gun every 20-25 rds, doesn't take as long as less to take out, but the carbon issue was an eye opener for sure.

We all do as we see fit but I'll continue to clean every 20 or so rounds and remove that carbon.
 


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