Is it true? St. Fransis Contest.....

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Predator Paul

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The Midwest Coyote Calling Event held in St. Francis, Ks. allows folks to "fly in" and "fly out" to hunt elsewhere, like way out of state.

If it's true.....I think this is a real unfair advantage. I think requiring everyone to drive to a hunt location puts everyone at the same level as far as loss of calling time to driving.

Anyone know if this is true? If so I would like to know so I don't line these guys pockets with my cash!

Paul
 
Where did ya hear that from Paul. It's not true, says so in the rules, must drive to and from St. Francis!
 
That's great!

I heard it from a couple large ranchers in Kansas. We were asking for land to hunt for the contest and this is what they told my partner. My partner now does not want to hunt!! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mad.gif

Hummmmm...
I hope this is not happening and nobody knows about it! :eek:
 
Wyoboy00, you missed it, I can't beleive COjay hasn't called ya or something to let ya know that you missed getting some great............................................excercise :rolleyes: We got smoked! No notta nothing /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mad.gif Had two tell us all about it after the sun went down before we got back to the truck, and that was it. You shoulda been there /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif
 
people fly to and from that contest every year. last year i was hunting south of St. Fran i had killed 4 coyotes on saturday and two contestants staying at the motel offered me $400 for them. What is ther to stop a team from sighning up for the contest and haveing 2 or 3 teams out there all four teams meet saturday afternoon prior to check in pool the coyotes . Do you ever wonder how the same 2 guys win 2 years in a row and then win in a second contest in the same year. Unless you are willing to bend the rules your are wasting your money.
 
I wondered this myself how they stop people from having more than 2 guys hunting on a team. I guess this is how it works when there is money on the line you just have to go on and try to win the fair way.
 
Yeah Paul, I dunno if I'm going.

I always get exited before I go to a contest, but usually regret it afterwards.
(not do disscourage anyone from going- you really can learn ALOT from contest hunters!) /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

I just can't spare the scrach this year.

Plus, they keep all the coyotes shot at the mid-western. If I can get $40 a piece,- unless I come in 5th or 6th I'd be loosing money. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif
 
240 page,
I hope you reported that but then again, that's not going to stop anyone. Cell phones and other things are used to "reach out and touch someone" like another team hunting for you.

Mudpuppy,
good point. I too get real excited that maybe it's my year. Then my hopes are dashed against the rocks when I hear about the same team again calling in triples ON THIER FIRST THREE STANDS and to make it worse THEY KILLED THEm ALL!!
Oh gee, and it's contest day!!! Total Bullsh!%!!

These guys are shooting coyotes off carcass piles, dead antelope, horses and other animals they killed themselves or brought in from the feed lot the day or two before.

I could go on and on. But what's the point. Until they up the contest fee and make everyone take along a paid "trustee" (nobody they know) everything will contiunue. You just heard from a guy that witnessed it first hand last year.

Oh, and don't get me started on the "all money paid back AFTER expenses" sh!$. I've seen the expenses! Norm's wife, daughter, freinds, grandsons helping scale out dogs, neighbors, the local paper boy and on and on. Funny thing is.....the prize money handed out at the banquet was in clear sandwich bags and the families and friends were in envelopes. Hummmm. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mad.gif

Whatever!
 
Paul,
Do I sense some hostility........, I know where you are coming from, I have donated my money several times to the different winners. I guess one of the reasons that I go anymore is for the social aspect, and see if I can pick-up some new hunting partners, but it is starting to get a little expensive, to do that anymore.

Lets talk about this idea about sending a person with the teams. How would a guy make this possible? I think it is a great idea, but I am a little unsure of how to make it work. I have always wanted to put on a contest in Cheyenne, and have it 3 man teams with one team member going with a unknown team. I am not sure how to keep that person honest? I would be interested on how you would suggest to do that, or anybodies elses idea. Maybe we are onto something here and can maybe put a little dent in these cheaters pocket. Just a thought. WHAT YA THINK

WYO
 
This would be a great idea but you are going to have troubles find more than 100 people to go along with the teams. This would be a problem unless you were to reduce the number of teams allowed to hunt. Just throwing my $.02 in. Lets here more guys
 
Predator Paul, I find this extremely interesting. If you saw someone cheating did you report it? Who did you tell? Or are you just saying that since they won 2 years in a row they they must be cheating? If someone is cheating then speak up. If your just letting off steam then say so and shut up. I don't know those guys from Adam but I did talk to them after the contest and they told me how they did it. Word for word. If your saying someone is lying, cheating, being unethical, then you should have no problem telling here what you saw and naming names.

As for the money changing hands I didn't see that. What did you see? Did you see the people get paid?

So far it just sounds like someone with an axe to grind, or a conspiracy theorist.
 
32,
I have not shot in this contest but expect it to be my first. I don't know if Paul has first hand knowledge of the statements being made or not. I will have to say this. If one had the time and connections, it would not be a problem to have 20 people hunting all over creation of that area for a team. Not to mention, hunting in different states and then flying yotes in on a small plane too for check in. Any of the other situations he mentioned would be a simple matter too.

The only way to stop this and this would not be foolproof would be a judge has to be with the teams at all times. Witness every kill. However, $500 bucks to your judge to sit in the truck or look the other way might make a difference too!! LOL!!!

The love of money is the root of all evil!
 
sos,
can you read? I haven't even hunted in the St. Fransis contest, but was going to this year until I just found out about the fly-ins from around the globe. Actually, Mississippi to be real. I never saw anyone cheat. I just know from years of calling what it takes to call the numbers of dogs the winners are calling CONSISTENTLY these days. And it's NOT CALLING at all. Someone in this post has witnessed it first hand. ANd by the way, it just happens to be THIS contest by some fly-ins. To make this eben better, the information that was given to my partner was spit out during an after dinner sit-around after a pheasant hunt in Kansas last week. The thing that's amazing is the "guide" on this bird hunting ranch that offered this information had NO IDEA my partner was even considering hunting in the St. Fransis contest. Nobody in the group did! Asked if he would hunt in it he responded "are you kidding! nobody would have a chance against these guys"
I don't have any ax to grind. I don't like dishonest people in a group I'm going to hang out with.

Wyo,
As for the partner idea. It would be very simple. There are many, many groups from churches, youth groups, boys and girls clubs, fund raising activities etc. that would jump at the chance to make $5000-8000 for the group. Simply charge an extra 100 per team and pay a ride along $50 per day for the organization. They could remain at the vehicle and make sure the rules are followed. Is this perfest? No, but I bet you would see the numbers drop BIG TIME!.

Remember the early 90's when Coyote populations were much better than they are now? How about the winning numbers in Wyoming when the Schmidt bros (some of the best dog slayers in this area) from Colorado won it? How about 6-8 dogs!! 12 dogs used to be the ultimate two day contest number. CONTEST number folks! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif

Wake up people! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif
 
Paul,
That sounds good as far as the groups go, a person might have to try that. Only thing that concerns me is the education that the youth would get from the hunters. You know as well as I do, that while hunting the 4 letter words get to flying a little more freely. Say a hunter misses a coyote at 100 yrds the first thing they do when they get back to the vehicle is say "I should of hit that F&*(^@# thing". I know it probably isn't something they haven't heard before, but might give the coyote hunt a bad name. Like you said it would be had to get anything perfect, but I think that would be a great start. Lets here more ideas. I can tell you have been hashing this out through your head quite a while.

WYO
 
Paul-

May I offer a piece of advise. If you are just repeating hearsay 3 parties removed keep your mouth shut in less you have first hand knowledge of something like this.
Do you honestly believe you can't tell the difference between a W. Kansas or Colorado Coyote and one taken in Mississippi.
As for the Schmid brothers, you will not find better people tahn Tom and Ted. They hunt harder get more sets in and hunt good ground. They have been hunting contests for years and know what it take to win.
For someone who if I recall has hunted in one contest you sure seem to know it all. It's a whole differnt ball game than rec hunting.
keep to the facts.
 
Predator Paul, So you've never hunted the contest, gone to the contest, or talked to anyone from the contest? I'm glad that part is out of the way. Now Let's go over what you've said so far:

You started out this thread with a question about fly ins? The answer was no. Let me quote from the printed information given out about the event, "The calling is anywhere you want to call, as long as you can-DRIVE-there in a 4-wheel vehicle." The answer to your question was no. However, you felt you needed to continue with unsubstantiated allegations that people must be cheating.

You then said, "I heard this from a couple of large ranchers in Western KS." And in the same paragraph, "And this is what they told my partner." So were you told this, or told by your partner? Tell me what you meant by that. But then you later said, "This information was given to my partner" on his bird hunt by a guide. Could you clear that up, please. Was it ranchers who told you? The guide told you? Your partner? What.

240page then says he was offered 400.00 for two coyotes. Apparently he didn't report it to anyone. And this was the first he has posted about it. You would think if he hadn't told anyone he would at least post on here about it after the contest and not wait until the upcoming contest to comment on what happened.

Then, Paul, comes your best posted reply: "These guys are shooting off carcass piles, dead antelope, and other animals they killed themselves, or brought in from the feed lot 2 or 3 days before." Really? You weren't there. Tell me more about that. Your basing that statement on what?

"I could go on but what's the point." I think it would be a very good point if anything you said was witnessed or could be cooborated. But it can't be cooborated. If it could be I'm sure you would have said so by now. You weren't there.

"The prize money was handed out in sandwhich bags and the families & friends were in envelopes." That's an interesting observation considering you weren't there. Who gave you that information? Another 3rd party source?

Now we get to the meat of the matter. "I know from years of calling what it takes to call the numbers of dogs the winners are calling consistently. And it's not calling at all."
So you know that based upon the number of coyotes taken by the winners that they must be cheating! Incredible! You must be an amazing caller with a lot of experience who has done well in contests. If you want to then feel free to name the contests and how you did. What do you think the winning numbers of the Midwest Event will be, or should be, this year?

"And by the way, it just happens to be this contest by some fly-ins." I have no idea what you mean here. But the winners of last years event drove to the contest. I know of no contestants who were from Mississippi.

"Remember back in the early 90's when the coyote populations were much better than they are now?" Please tell me you can cite a source on this one. Was this your own personal research that you published? You saw this in a wildlife journal? This is the first I've heard of the gradual decline in the coyote population.

Predator Paul, Let me suggest that before you get on the internet and start making allegations of cheating that you try to at least cite a source or something verifiable. That does not include your years of calling experience. To suggest or make claims like you have done on here is incredibly reckless. Furthermore it's moronic. You're speaking of men's reputations. And, so far, you have said nothing to back up the allegations. The most significant thing you have said is that you weren't there.

And also let me add to anyone reading this thread. If you know someone is cheating in any contest (bass fishing, big buck contest, coyote calling contest) Report It! Report it to the event officials, law enforcement, or District or Prosecuting attorney. Get names, dates, times license plate numbers, witnesses, etc. In Texas it's is a criminal offense to cheat in a public contest.
 
All I can say (from personal exp.) is it's not with your time or money to go if you have any doubts about other contestents.
If they are cheating and you report it to the people running the contest, there is no garontee they will do anything about it.

My partner at 2 different contests asked for the lie detector test for the winners and was refused.

Lots of people cheat, and some contests get a bad rep, wiether it's true or not.
The St. Francis 'event' Has a bad rep.


If you have never been to a contest, go you'll have a great time /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif .
After you go to two or three, well - you start to question whats going on. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

If you enjoy coyote calling and don't need to prove anything to anybody, go call your local haunts and kill a reasonable 3 or 4 coyotes.
And save your money. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif
 
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