Is this hunting ??????????

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is it hunting? NOT AT ALL... like you said tarry, there's nothing like hearing a dog on tree or beagles running a rabbit. but i'm 17 and since a was lil boy, my dad, grandpa, and whoever else i was with, has taught me "hunting is about out smarting that animal, and when it comes down to the moment of truth, making that one perfect shot so that animal does not suffer." i've ran rabbits my whole life, and been coon hunting a few times. but i never let the dogs sit there and torture a animal. just tie off the dogs and make a good head shot and dont let him suffer by being rip limb for limp by 3-5 dogs.

now if these guys had 1 dog, 1 coyote... fair fight... but that first video made me sick, one dog was ripping the skin off the coyote... and theres no sense or sport in that.

but in the end this just give the antis ammo against us... and if you like it, fine, but that's on your conscience not mine.
 
Unless you are/were a houndsman you will probably not truely understand. No amount of verbal fodder will probably change your opinion on this type of hunting. "It is about the hounds", doing what they enjoy. Not to mention, spending time with family & friends.

Tarry,

You, no doubt are under-estimating the ability of a coyote. I've witnessed a coyote lope 9 consecative one mile sections w/o stopping. How many dogs can do that?. I've seen coyotes sail over a 5-strand fence while running uphill.

Any coyote sympathizer out there in the real World. Put your tough dog in a small pen with an aggitated adult coyote. In short order you will truely understand. A coyote doesn't need any help opening up a can of whoop butt on a tough dog.
 
wssm,

I don't think the Anti's will run out of ammo anytime soon....If they do, they'll "create" some.

What they revel in is posts like yours, that has hunters judging other hunters & openly condemning them for their practice.

As you mature & your sporting interests change, you may see that you don't hunt the same as everyone else...You may even dis-approve of a method of hunting you did in your younger years.

It's good that you have family to teach you hunting & shooting & ethics.

Just be careful about judging others on what may have been taught to them by their family as ethical.

By the way, nature is not kind in any form or fashion. The coyote pretty much does the same thing to anything it kills, including baby lambs, or family pets.

Barry
 
To each their own. For the dogs it is hunting they are bread for it. Humain? Probably not but this is the animal world.

It might be benificial to to mention there are a lot of people out there that feel calling coyotes is not "REALLY" hunting either. Luring an animal in with sounds that draw the animal in naturally while you sit there with a smoke stick and shoot it with ease. I of course think that is horse crap, BUT what I see as ethical and fine not everyone on this forum will agree with. It is what it is and if another guy considers this hunting he is still in the brother hood. When we start splittting hairs of what is hunting and what is not we are dividing ourselves against anti's no matter what way the predator is dispatched. JMO

Not so long ago I criticized a video of a mountain lion being pecked to death by a a bunch of dogs trained to do what they were doing. Not my cup of tea but better to be united than not is my new outlook on any form of hunting.
 
NASA,

Couldn't have said it better myself.

Courtgus, don't forget to send your check to the ranchers who lose countless dollars a year to yotes. I don't care how they get caught, trapped, shot, as long as they are gone. Just like TV, if you don't like it, change the channel. Remember, we are all in this battle together.

I guarantee they coyote hunters back up YOUR privelage to hunt.

They maybe shouldn't have put it on YouTube, but it's legal, and a VERY effective way to knock down coyote populations.

TA17rem, you comparing that to "banging 13yr olds in Bangkok" was the exact reason I moved out of Minnesota. Too many like you.

NASA, I doubt you need this said, but we NEED more like you.
 
All I have to say is that it isn't my kind of hunting. It is another type of hunting but just not mine. I don't think video's should be taken and put on the internet so the anti's can walk into a room full of tree huggers and say this is how they hunt coyotes! Most of those people are going to say "Oh my wehave to stop coyote hunting." They don't get to see the other types of coyote hunting. They don't get to see the one shot one kill type of hunt, they just see a very violent hunt between dogs and a coyote. They are not going to like what they see. Enjoy your sport but lets not post video's of it for the anti, treehugging, granola eaten, and animal kissers anymore to work with.
 
keep your openion to your self if you do not like what you see do not watch it.but we have to support our fellow hunters no matter what.i do not think hunting in the spring is ok but some do that is there choice.hound hunting has been around longer than calling. the houndsmen are the originel predator hunters.so if you do not like watching good dogs work go and watch bamby.
 
First I hardly think that robin is a troll. I think he is new and is looking for info to better himself as a hunter.

What a mess this can cause to a forum. I had previously commented on the second video in the hound forum and was labeled a troll. Hardly! I don't even let my kids watch Bambi just because of the evil hunter theme. Everyone has their opinion but having an opinion for or against something isn't divisive. If we all agree to be 100% for everything remotely hunting, we would be as goofy as the anti's(drinkin the koolaid just another flavor). It is what makes us intelligent, you know being able to decide for yourself using your own logic.

Do I like it? Nope. I would say that I value life in general. Coyotes deserve as much of my respect as deer or turkeys or whatever I am hunting. It was how I was taught and it is the way my children will be taught. I guess it is a regional thing. Coyotes don't kill many cattle here in MN. Most yote hunters I know consider it worthy of respect. That respect includes how you take them and what you do with them afterwards.

"Just because I can," FOR ME, generally means "I don't care." Which also says to me that you are not hunting.

There's enough well respected members on both sides to make it obvious we don't all want to support things we find questionable. Just ask the reloading forum about using a .22lr to shoot yotes!! There are many issues of hunting in general that are hot topics. I personally refuse to be a sheep in my sport that I love so much. So I will make a stand to support what I believe is morally and ethically correct. If you think I am selling out, whatever, but my conscience is clear, so I could care less.

I think discretion is key to survivability of hunting. We all know there can be some unsavory occurrences in any form of hunting, but not promoting them is a good idea. Much like the photo policy here at PM. I believe it is imperative to police ourselves to hold on to that higher standard here.

Do I want to see dogs ripping up a coyote? No. I am not going to post it either. I believe that the photo policy should apply to certain video too.

KH
 
When I was young this woundn't bother me, But as I get older it does. We as sportman owe it to the animals we kill to do it quickly with the least amount of suffering. My 2 cents.
 
The post by furmaster on page 2 of this thread pretty much says it all!! He is dead on correct!

Putting videos like this on youtube for the WORLD to see is STUPID. STUPID. STUPID. That video right there is just what the anti whackos love to get their hands on. That video is way better than the prairie dog videos for their agenda.

Some common sense and discretion in this day and age of computers, internet, the W.W.W. and youtube would go a long way. If the hound guys, the prairie dog hunters, the trappers, etc. want to keep enjoying our sport, we better start using a little better judgement on things.

It's surely not going to get any easier for us to keep enjoying what we do guys. We don't want to make it harder.
 
The antis' have message boards too. Do a search and you'll eventually finds links to and quotes from this thread. Read the current petition to end prairie dog hunting in Colorado and you'll find references to PM, other boards, outdoors writers etc. The antis' are laughing themselves right out of their Birkenstocks and high-fiving each other at what is going on in this thread. Divide and conquer is a very effective way to destroy our rights. I suspect some of you would vote to ban hound hunting, but whine and cry if bow, M/L hunting, baiting and calling where to be outlawed. Where are we going to draw a line in the sand?
 
Kirby I understand what you are saying about the coyote. I agree they have great endurance and strengh for their size. When pursued by a pack of dogs they have the choice of standing there and whooping all of them or running. They have no method of excape unless they are fortunate enough to exhaust the dogs or out distance them. They can't go in a hole deep enough like a rabbit and they can't tree and wait it out like a cat. There is only one way to end a coyote chase once the yote gives up. At that point it is about the killing and since the dog handlers, no I don't call them hunter because at this point I don't think they are, do nothing but watch I fail to see the challenge in it. Now remember this is my opinion, I not putting down what they do I just asking someone to explain the challenge and enjoyment in it to me. I personally don't consider it hunting. I open to change my mind if someone can provide a reasonable explanitation of why they think it is. I liken it to dog racing where they dogs chase the lure around the track but when it comes down to it the humans are nothing more than spectators

I agree that unless you are a houndsman you will not understand this. I use to chase coon and loved it. The dogs were trained to chase coon and tree them. The baying in the night was like a song. Once I got there they were leashed they would followed me out. I don't sell the hides and coon don't taste that good so I saw no reason to kill it. The dogs could have cared less if they killed it. They were rewarded for the chase. Was it enjoyable, yes, was it hunting, not in my book because all I did was follow the dogs. If I had killed the coon I would have thought of it as getting rid of pest. There was no challenge or in shooting a treed animal, I was't going to eat it and if I killed it just for enjoyment then I would be one sick fella.

In my opinion the anti-hunting crowd should not hold this against hunter because it is hunting.
 
I personnally think this was a Baited debate, but I quess Ill jump in with my opinion.

Its Hunting, they use dogs, others use a rifle to shoot them blah blah blah. Its all been said.

The problem lies in the fact that those who dont approve of someones method of "legally" taking game, are the first to come out against it, and it isnt from the antis, Its from a fellow hunter that thinks his code of ethics is the only one to adhere too. thats what turns my stomach!!!!! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/angry-smiley-055.gif

So the next dang time I see some guy telling me that running dogs isnt hunting, or that he isnt a sportsman because he uses dogs, and that person comes up to the great state of ND to hunt our Pheasants with HIS pointer, lab or spaniel. Im gonna tell him to keep his dog in the truck, get his lazy butt out there and find them himself, because using a dog "isnt sporting", im sure he'll agree /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif

I dont run dogs, but I would love the chance to try, and that may happen some day, but if all you hollier than thou hunters keep this up it just may not ever happen. What those dogs are doing to that coyote is about what some of you are doing to hunting. And I think that may be the intent of the topic itself. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif

To say that we should not post these pics or videos on you tube is insane, then we should get rid of the forums/mags/and other vids too that talk/teach or show how to harvest, er KILL an animal.
Im not saying that the first vid is a great example of what they do, but I dont think we should be apologetic or ashamed of who we are or what we do either.

We all say its so the anti's dont get us that we need to hide what we do, NOW I can safely say im a bit more worried about other hunters trying to decide how I can hunt.

To summerize if it isnt illegal stay out of my dang business! Hunt your way and let me hunt mine.

and please before you post on how you dont like this method, maybe go and educate youselves a bit more on the subject down in the houndsmen forum, yeah its there ya just have to get past the guns and gadget forums. they are more than willing to answer ANY question on the subject.

Dave
 
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but we have to support our fellow hunters no matter what.



Wood60 I can't agree with this statement but from the rest of your post I don't think it is coming across as you mean it. It is plain to see that you have a belief that people should be ethical when they hunt, unless I am misinterputing your statement about hunting in the spring. But, there are too many out there who hunt and disregard the laws, disrepect the land, the land owner and the prey and make the rest of us look bad. Poacher are hunters but I don't think any of us would want to support them or even be associated with them.
 
I personally dont care for it, but hey, its legal and houndsmen love it. Have fun! It doesnt matter to me how you do it as long as you arent creating more problems for fellow hunters by being irresponsible or careless. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grinning-smiley-003.gif Antis will always have something against us, that will never change as long as there is any type of hunting. Well exept Good Will Hunting the movie, they probably like that one. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif
 
This may be classified as some as hunting by some, but you would be hard pressed to find an intelligent individual that would classify it as either sporting or ethical in this day and age. The crucial factor in sporting ethics is the one shot one quick kill mantra. Obviously this is not the case here.

This tired, old, bull about we are all hunters so we must support any form of hunting is pure nonsense. Ethically objectionable activities like those posted in the video are what gives people a false impression of the 95% of us "real" hunters and is what leads to bans. Additionally, philisophically speaking, the notion that the majority of hunters should support ethically questionable activities such as this is fundamentally flawed from the outset - since all unethical bahavior should always be resisted (this is one of the basical principals of ethics / morals -- it's not a you scrach my back I'll scrack your proposition).
 
Kal in bird huning you are definately an active participant. The dog find and flushes the game, you have to have the skill to hit the moving target. I see no comparison there at all.
 
/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/angry-smiley-055.gifHow dare anyone say that these houndsmen aren't hunters! It is legal, and therefor ethical. Your own values, ethics, and morals are yours, and you have no right to push those beliefs on others! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/angry-smiley-055.gif

Also, I am so sick of people talking about videos being "fuel for the anti's." I DON'T GIVE A TINKER'S [beeep] WHAT SOME ANTI A-HOLE THINKS OF MY HUNTING/SHOOTING PASSION! I, for one, enjoy videos of hunting and shooting - including watching p-dogs explode in slow motion - and I will never ask a fellow hunter not to video him/herself hunting. Does it mean I "have some screws loose?" No! If you don't like it, don't freaking watch it! But, stop worrying about giving fuel to the anti's, they're never going to go away and they will make crap up anyway, so don't bend your ways to them, don't give an inch!
 
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It is legal, and therefor ethical.



Well that definately is NOT true...
I can think of a hundred things I could do that are legal but completely unethical.
However, I do agree that houndsmen are legal AND ethical. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grinning-smiley-003.gif
 
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