Keyholing

Rustydust

Rustydust

Active member
Hey Guys

Got back from the shooting range a bit ago where I had a frustrating day. Did a scope swap on a couple of .22 rimfires, checked to make sure that my .204 was still sighted in and it was and shooting good. Then took out my Remington 700 in .17 Rem to check its zero and my first shot completely missed the paper at 100 yards. Never did that before. Got it sighted in at 50 yards and when I moved back to 100 yards my targets now were showing perfect keyholes in them. Three different loads with three different bullets did the same thing. WTH? Rifle shot great last time that I fired it with exactly the same ammo. Never had a keyhole in my life with any gun that I can remember. And I cleaned the bore well before I put it away last time too. Been a few months but still, I wonder what happened.

I am doing a quick soak with some Montana Extreme bore cleaning solvent right now and then going to spend a bit of time scrubbing the bore and see if that helps but if it dont then I dont know what to do. How can a gun go from shooting half inch groups to keyholing all over the target from one shooting session to another I wonder. Any guesses?
 
How many rounds through that barrel?
Its happened to me but the barrel was toasted after 30 yrs of shooting.
Got a line on a bore scope you can look with?
 
Originally Posted By: 5spdHow many rounds through that barrel?
Its happened to me but the barrel was toasted after 30 yrs of shooting.
Got a line on a bore scope you can look with?

Don't really know how many. Less than 1000 and and none pushed to max ever. No bore scope. Patches still coming out blue so I will hit it some more.

Just funny that it shot so well before putting it away for the winter. Want to take a few whistlepigs (sage rats, ground squirrels, etc) with it shortly and suddenly it is shooting like crap. I did not run my usual patch of Kroil and then a dry patch though it before shooting but I dont always do that anyway.

I will keep pushing patches though it until then come out clean and head back to the range in a day or two and see what it does then. If it still shooting as bad as it did today I dont know what to do then.
 
Originally Posted By: K22Check for a carbon ring in the throat area.

Need a bore scope for that dont I or not? Have access to one but the smallest bore that it can go down is .224 so still stuck for now. Ah well. I go hit it some more with bore cleaner. At least I will have a nice shiny bore and a floor full of dirty patches when this is all done.
 
What was the temperature difference between the last time you shot the rifle and now. I have seen barrels that were slow enough twist that they would go from shooting round bullet holes at 60 degrees, to shooting oval holes at 40 degrees, and be completely unstable and keyholing at 20 degrees. You may or may not be in this situation, but it is something to consider.
 
I had a Savage .204 that would consistently shoot in the .2s that would give me the occasional keyhole flier. A very experienced and seasoned friend of mine was getting similar results in his .204 and attributed it to excess velocity. He backed his load off and he stated that the occasional keyholes ended.
 
It has been really warm here as of late. Was around 60 today when I was at the range. I think that the last time that I shot it it was around 90 degrees out in Wyoming but I have shot the gun in considerably cooler temps than 60 and it shot fine. One of the loads that I shot today was a long favorite of that particular gun and it just shot awful just as the other two loads did.

One reason that I went to the range today was to try some loads that I had neck sized and when they shot bad I thought that it was the load itself but I had my old tried and trues with me and they shot no better.

Oh well. I really stink right now. Smell like I took a bath in bore cleaner. I am going to run a couple more patches though the bore and then call it a night and start again tomorrow. Good thing I got a lot of those little patches on hand as I have gone though quite a few already.

And thanks for the words of advice guys. Even old timers can learn something every now and then. Remembering it, well, that's a different story there.
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My .204 did almost the same thing a few years ago, just before leaving on a pd trip. For some unknown reason, I started shooting groups at 300, then 200, and when I reached 100 yards, my Cooper .204 wouldn't hit an IDPA target. Don't know if it was keyholing or not since the rounds were completely off the paper. Went over the usual: scope, rings, something loose, etc. Problem was "fouling", and a lot of it. After a good scrubbing with a brush and copper solvent, I was back to the small groups I was used to getting. I started cleaning better, and more often in the pd fields to keep the accuracy where it needed to be. My gun had nearly 2000 rounds when that happened. Hope your gun just needs a good cleaning.
 
this thread reminded me of a Oooophs moment: I had a box of .308 150 grain tried and true reloads, and a box of 7mm-08 reduced recoil reloads with 130 grain bullets. I shot 3 of the 7mm/08 down the .308! Talk about keyholes and all over the target! Is it possible? .17 fireball or something?
 
When I saw the subject line in the topic... I thought... Oh My... it's not Dirty Dog and his 17 cal is it...? Well... I'm glad he got his worked out... and I'm sure that Rusty, the Man with a Plan... will get her right when it's all over... and we'll all learn something.
 
Rusty,,,From a curiosity factor,,,Have you ever shot the rifle from 'super clean' to the point where the accuracy either got better, or fell off??...If your powder happens to be temperature sensitive, that can cause some serious differences in expected results as well...

Too bad you are not right around the corner from me, I'd like to look at the barrel with my bore scope...You may have a build up of some kind that is causing the problems...If you have a competent gun smith close, he should have one..

You might consider getting your hands on some OSSO bore paste, it's a little more gentle than JB paste, and scrubbing the bore thoroughly with it on a patch...While there are faster ways to clean the barrel, short of doing it with an electric bore cleaner (another consideration), some tend to have the potential for more damage to the barrel...
 
Back during the dog Wars, we used to shoot our 17 Rem's till the bullets hit the ground 25 feet infront of the truck.

So, your issue is just plain ole copper fouling, good bronze bristle brush, followed by Montana extreme copper killer should do you well. I have had some barrels that would foul out in 40 shots till they got 500-600 rounds through them.

The JB and Montana Extreme Copper cream on their plastic brush will make short work out of cleaning that barrel, no brainer on this one!!!


For all 17's, coating the bullets with Lee sizing wax will more than double the shooting string #, and drop the standard deviation down to single digits!!!
Good luck!
 
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Well guys, I just got though putting that .17 back in the safe. Phew. Patch after patch littered my garage floor. Wow, but that Montana Extreme stuff is strong smelling. I am going do some serious airing out of that garage today.

I am guessing that this really was a seriously dirty bore that was causing the problem. It kept shooting so good previously that about all I would do after I got home from shooting it was was to shoot a bit of solvent down the barrel and pull a bore snake though it a time or two and call it good. After all those blue patches were scattered all over my floor I suppose that calling it good and it actually being good and clean were two different things.

Now I suppose that another trip to the range will be the proof of the pudding. I almost dread it because if it still shoots like crap then I dont know what I will do then. I cannot handle going from half inch shooter to half yard shooter.

And Keith, I am going to wax some of those bullets like you suggested to me a few months ago. I have done some .224 bullets but still have not loaded them. Might as well try a few of the .172" and see how they do.

Oh, and Turtle? That rifle has shot so good from day one that I never really cleaned it all that well. A lot of foaming bore cleaner went down the pipe but that was the most that it ever got. I was assuming that was plenty good but it seems that all of those blue patches were telling a different story.
 
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