Ki Yi after the shot?

B

Buckrun

New member
Ok guys I am sitting here watching Calling in the “thick Stuff”. I have seen this before. I’ll set it up for you. You have called in a coyote and shot it. Now you switch to the ki yi sounds. Byron says to do it, Randy Anderson says to do it. They say the shot doesn’t seem to bother the coyote, so after the shot switch to the ki yi sounds.

Well my question is if they don’t seem to pay any attention to the shot. Why switch to the ki yi? Why wouldn’t you just start a stand with a ki yi?

I have been working with my Sceery AP-6 call. I think it is the #6. It is the one with the reed between the 2 plastic pieces that you bite. I can make a call that sounds like a pup growling and barking like it is fighting with something. I can throw in a few yelps then bark and growl.

To growl I just flutter my toung like I ways trying to do a bird. Just blowing hard enough to get the sound of a growl. I don’t bite the reed. Then I huff or puff into the call with out biting down to make the bark. Then I will bite down and yelp. While doing this I am visualizing a young coyote fighting a ground hog. Maybe the ground hog gets in a few licks him self.

What do you think? Give it a try.

Steve
 
Good questions. Lets see if I can clear it up for you.

The kiyi hits the territorial response of the coyote. You've seen other dogs jump one that is down suddenly to get their licks in right. It's the same thing. You see it whenever any canine is showing its place in the pecking order. A status thing.

As a call by itself it will also work very well. Again its the territorial response to a situation.Mating season and a mated pair is establlishing their right to control a piece of ground. They hear something getting it's but kicked and they aren't doing the kicking, they will come running to establish their dominance.

But, no matter what sound you are using, even prey sounds, get right on that call as quick as possible. I have had missed coyotes leaving a setup and hear another aproach as well at the same time.You don't really know how many are in the area at that particular time. They don't pay attention to the shots, just the sounds you make wiht the call.I have even had missed animals stop for a second shot because I got right on the call again.


And the call you describe is the ap6. You have tripped on a sound similar to what I call whipped pup. It's sort of a cross between grey fox distress and the kiyi.To make the growls I hum into the call to get that raspy sound. To get the chatter I wiggle the call in my teeth. I use an open reed for this though. It starts out , YIPE,YIPEYIPE,yiyiyigrrrrryiyi Yipe yipe yiyigrrrrr. You get in mom and pop's territory and pull that one you better have your safetey off and gun up. You will hear them coming long before they get there. It will work year around, but is the best thing I have found during mating season. Kytimberman thinks it is magic /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Your sound may be a bit diferent from mine. But I can tell you it will work. As long as it sounds like a canine in trouble it will strike that territorial response in them. And if you don't try it you will never know for certain. Thats what this calling game is about, trying and learning. Thinking your way through a situation and giving it a whirl. Always be willling to experiment and try new things.Jimmie
 
I've witnessed on a number of occasions a dog shot high and it ki-yi's before expiring and the second dog that hightailed it on the shot comes running back to see what is wrong with his buddy. That makes for a good double setup. So if this happens to you be sure to cycle a round in the chamber toot sweet to be ready for the other coyote to come back to investigate. In a pinch a mouth ki-yi works very well, also.
I agree that hurt pups and ki-yi's can sound very close and I've pulled in coyotes with the hurt pup sound alone a few different times.
 
Thanks guys

My thought on the call I described, was to start the set with a young pup howl. Wait a couple minutes then go into my pup fighting.

I figure any set up you make you are depending on a coyote being there. I understand what you mean about it caring about the intruder getting a a$$ whipping.

With the call I am trying to do. It is a young coyote trying to take on something a little bigger than it can handle. A thought just came to me maybe throw a fawn bawl into the mix. Maybe the fawn gets in a few licks.Or moma came to the rescue.

Steve
 
The type of sound your talking about will work by itself on young and old coyotes. Strange canines that are or may be injured get the group all hopped up and ready to rumble. The only time I have problems calling young animlas is using howling early in the season. Jimmie
 
Buckrun,

Often times when calling there is more than one coyote responding. They often travel in pairs. Sometimes your focus on the first does'nt allow you to see the second and sometimes the second just holds back out of sight. They however are often times aware of the others where a bouts(many times it's either their mate or sibling). When the first responds and is shot, the ki-yi's can trigger the other to come in to investigate. I'll usually only stay on the ki-yi's a few seconds and them go back to the prey sounds. Coyote pup in distress sounds are also very good after a shot. Proximity is everything with coyotes. When you see one, it's a pretty good assumption there is another very close. When you get them close and drop the first, the close proximity of the second will make it hard for him to resist the urge of the investigating the sounds of the wounded sibling or mate. He could also asuume he's in a fight or in trouble. Who knows? What I do know is that it works.

As to why I don't start my stands with ki-yi's. I like to start with a more apetizing sound first and then go to the vocalizations. Some coyotes act adversly to vocalizations. Regardless of what some call manufactuers will have you believe. I call 90% of my coyotes with the tired old prey in distress sounds. They come in easier and less aprehensive. Coyote responding to only vocalizations tend to come in slower and more downwind, but not always. They are often times more cautious. I believe the less intimidating prey sounds will get you more/faster reponces day in day out. Put another way they come faster to a meal than to a fight, and they come further to a meal than a fight.

Thats my take on it for what it's worth.

Byron
 
I wanted to add a little to my last post.

When using vocalizations, especially in thicker cover, it is a good idea to have a pretty good idea of the coyotes range. Get close to what I call his "safe zone" or "core area" and then howl and the game is on. Get very far off his core area and all they do is run to their safe zone and either hush or howl back. They are just defending their teritory. The closer you are to the core area the more threatend they feel and the more apt they are to respond. Coyote vocalizations are fun to use and somewhat effective, but highly effective if you have done your homework and know where they hang out in their safe zones during the day. This is true out West but way more so in the more human populated thick stuff of the east. With this being said, when calling next to these "safe zones" I still start with the prey distress sounds.

Byron
 
I think the type of howl you give them has alot to do with what kind of a responce you get from them. Also the age of the coyote and were it stands in the family group as well. And alot of it has to do with what time of the year it is.

When locating at night with a howler alot of the time it may take 15 or more min to get a vocal responce, like Byron said alot of the time they will re locate into there core area before giving away there location.

And it also depends on what kind of vocals you give the coyotes, and what you recieve from them. Not all coyote vocals will send them into a safety zone.

Pup crys and wines though and Coyote destress prey on a diffrent part of the coyotes mind than howling.

Puppy Howls, and puppy crys and wines, and destress are very effective sounds for coyotes. I have also found that here in the East, the responce is better in thick cover with coyote destress, Puppy crys and wines and howling than it is in the open counry or farm land fields. They feel more comfortable checking things out when they have some cover and wont retreat to there safety zone as fast as they wound if they were in the wide open.

Finding a coyotes safety zone can be diffrent from time to time, and depending on what cover they have will define were there safety zone is, and what type of cover you are calling will sometimes reflect how the coyote will respond to your coyote vocals.

Safety zone and Core Areas are two diffrent things to me.

Brent
 
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I don't know about Brent and Byron, but to me a safetey zone is basically an aproach lane with escape routes.A place where it can move and explore a sound from cover of some kind. That coyote that hangs up way out there isn't comfortable with what it hears and wants to keep that buffer of distance and possiblity of quick escape.You will observe this more with howling as a call at night than at any other time because of responses to the call.In daylight they either come in or you never know they were there.

Core areas are where they bed or spend a great deal of time day or night. In parts of the coyotes territory there are places where you will hear them howl from, anywhere between 2 am and 4 am. They stay put there for whatever reason for that couple of hours. There is also a bedding area they use during the day. It is more centrally located.

Howling is something I use very little, mainly as a locator. I stick with distress sounds of some kind.Distress sounds are more apt too trip the coyotes trigger and get it moving.The coyote already knows it can handle a distressed animal, this is what it does for a living. The distressed animal is less able to defend itself by fight or flight making it safer for the coyote.
Distress sounds can cause a number of reactions from territorial to hunger or curiosity.They don't trigger a fear response! Jimmie
 
I wish I knew what is going through a coyotes head when it hears the distress sounds. Do you think they wonder what is putting the hurts on that rabbit? Do they steel rabbits from hawks and owls so often thay don't even think about it?

I imagin that a coyote or fox kills its small prey pretty quick. So there wouldn't be a lot of squalling.

How many of you guys have seen a coyote in action with a rabbit? Have you heard a rabbit screaming with a predator after it?

Steve
 
A safety zone to me is were a coyote desides to hold his ground, this is were they feel the most comfortable, at the time, depending on what vocals you are using will define what kind of a responce you are going to get from the coyote and how it will respond. They may hold there ground, re-locate, or circle down wind, or find a travel lane to use to give it some comfort. all this is effected by the age of the coyote, the family group, if it is in a group, and how comfortable the coyote feels in the teritory that it is in, and even if it is in its teritory or out of its teritory, and time of year. It maybe a area right of the edge of there teritory and you just happen to set up your stand just out side the line. Sometimes they just seem to draw a line and will not cross it, for what ever reason. And thet Safety zone is were they pick to hold there ground because thats were they feel the most comfortable at the time.

A core area to me, is a area inside there teritory that they feel the most secure, and depending on the time of year this maybe the area they will defend the most. Again you can get alot of diffrent responces from the area depending on alot of diffrent things and time of year and all that good stuff.

I have had coyotes hang up and howl and bark for well over a Hr and never move or re-locate. And I hav had coyotes that move around inside an area for well over a Hr, howling and barking and never break over and move into the call. And I have seen them hold up for a Hr and then break down and come in.

A aproach lane to me is the lane that a coyote uses to respond to a call, fence line, ditch, revene, creek bed, Ect. This is the area that they will travel that makes them feel the most comfortable during a responce to a call, or there taraveles.

Brent
 
Distress sounds are just that. They can be any animal besides a rabbit or mouse. So don't put such a limit on your imagination and what you can get out of a mouth call. Most open reeds will do a wide variety of sounds. Grey fox,coyote pup, deer or fawn, canine puppies, bird and or rabbit can all be gotten out of a single open reed call. Some calls have more versatiltiy that others though, so when you find a good one hang onto it .And the great thing is you don't have to sound exactly like what you are trying to mimic. It can be just a bit off in pitch and still draw them like a magnet.

And I do think they manage just often enough stealing food from other critters to keep them coming . I think what they hear dictates how they respond. Rabbit or mouse screams and they trot in. Give them a canine sound and you will get a number of responses in body language and posture. Running in with hackles raised happens quite often. But there isn't a sound out there that makes them drop their guard completely. Jimmie
 
Brent, Jimmy,

I think were talking about the same places just using different words. To me their "core area" is their "safety zone". They mark their territory with as wide a berth as they feel they can handle, but the "core area" is what they will defend with the most vigor. This is also where they go when the SHTF so to speak. Sometimes aggresive coyotes will make a bee-line for you regardless of your proximity within their range. Others won't. I learned a long time ago to never say "never" or "always" when talking about coyotes. They have habits that are often predictable, but they are aslo very adaptable and will redily abandon those habits to survive.

As Brent mentioned, different times of year also make a difference as well as age when considering what vocalizations to use. Another wrinkle in the deal is attitude, or disposition. Some coyotes regardless of age, sex, or time of year are very aggresive, and others aren't. The one thing they all have in common is that they like to eat. This is why I like to start with the prey sounds first (wider apeal). Then if this doesn't work try a non-threatning, inviting, low howl and work up from there. At some point you "might" stike a nerve and get a responce. When calling, I'm playing the odds. I start with what I feel has the most appeal in each circumstance. Most of the time it's a meal.

There are lots of different opinions, tactis and techniques, and over the years we all taylor our own ways of doing things. I enjoy reading or hunting with people that have a different twist on things.

Great thread. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grinning-smiley-003.gif

Byron /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif
 
I agree Byron. One of these days we all need to sit down and discuss the language for coyote 101 /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grinning-smiley-006.gif No matter what words we use to describe it though, coyote behavior is much the same and depends on the pressure they recieve where they are at the time. This behavior makes them just predictable enough for us to hunt them on our terms.And like the coyote , I am just succesful enough to keep me at this insanity /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

And if I ever get to the point that I am totally inside the coyote's mind and what makes him tick ,I'll quit /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif I don't look for that to happen anytime in the future though.Jimmie
 


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