dcase
New member
There is next to nothing out there for reviews of Kies Firearms (Google it) and I wanted to share my experiences regarding Kies. I have purchased two AR uppers from them (Travis) and my review is as follows:
1. Both uppers were purchased through Joe Bobs outfitters and I cannot say enough good things about them. They have the best customer service in a time that no one seems to even know what that means not to mention outstanding prices and next day shipping. Joe bobs is the place to go. The first upper was a 7.62x39. If you know anything about these uppers they all have had problems with shooting military surplus ammo. The primers are set too far back.
I had been thinking about getting one for years and called and asked if the Kies would shoot military surplus ammo. I was told “yes” and asked no further questions (like if I had a custom trigger). I was unable to shoot many brands of military ammo and to make a long story short I needed a longer firing pin which Kies did provide and ended up needing to change triggers. It was an honest mistake and my light Jewel trigger had not been considered when I was told yes it would fire military ammo. I was very impressed when it was all said and done with what I could do with a 7.62x39. See my review on Joe Bobs.
2. Like I said the customer service (CS) from Joe Bobs was great however the CS from Kies was a bit lacking. The owners “bedside” manner is lacking but like I said I was taken care of and I liked the upper and the price enough to purchase another. I ordered a .264 LBC (6.5 Grendel) because I wanted a long-range, highly accurate, hunting platform.
When I received my .264 the first thing I noticed was the billet charging handle would not pull back. After several pulls it came back and the same thing kept repeating. I called Joe Bob’s immediately and they said I needed to call Kies. Kies told me they make “precision” weapons with “tight” tolerances and did not seem to be concerned. After about 15-20 minutes of charging the bolt the problem seem to get better. I did notice the smell of something getting hot and noticed that the metal had been worn on the billet charging handle. Travis later told me that this was “normal”. It did the same thing to two other charging handles from my other uppers.
I have had several AR’s all with scopes and not one of them did this. The other thing I noticed was the quality of the bolt carrier. It looked NOTHING like the quality of the bolt carrier from the Kies 7.62 or my 5.56 bushmaster. It looked like it had been finished with a file or 80 grit sand paper (Kies response to this was it was a better bolt and finish). I went to clean the weapon as I do whenever I get a new one and the barrel was extremely dirtly. It required an excessive amount of cleaning. Kies promotes their “nano-ceramic” bore liner that requires very little cleaning and that is exactly what I got from the first upper. I could clean the 7.62 after shooting wolf with about 5-6 patches. This required over 15 patches after shooting a few Hornady A-max. Later Kies told me this has happened with the .264 LBC from time-to-time.
I took the upper out to my shooting range and the groups were larger at 100 yrds than using wolf ammo through the 7.62. I was using Hornady Match A-max ammo. This was the final straw and I contacted Kies and shipped the upper back after going through over 60 rds (about $60 worth of ammo). I had sent them an e-mail with photos of the targets, pile of dirty cleaning patches, bolt carrier, and even included a few targets with the upper when shipping. I was told it would take a few weeks before they could look at it. I never received any kind of conformation that they received my upper. When I contacted them asking if they received it I was told it would be about 2 weeks before they could look at it. I assumed this meant they received it.
After several weeks I called and spoke to Travis the owner. He said that he was just looking at it and was taking it out to the range right after we spoke. That was a week ago. I sent another e-mail 5 days after he was supposed to have looked at it stating that this needed to be resolved by the end of the week once again with no response. I finally got ahold of Travis and he had made it to the range a week from when he told me he was going and it shot fine and sent me photos of the targets. They were good groups. He did mention that he fed the rounds in individually and not through the magazine. I did not think anything of this until I got to the range and got the EXACT same results as before. I had gone through about 53 rds when I remember this and individually fed 4 rds. I had a good group that looked like the ones Travis sent me. Ran the last 5 rds through the magazine and it spread out again. Why the [beeep] would you run rds individually through a magazine fed weapon to test it?
It was also suggested that maybe it was my scope mount, that I tightened it too hard or not hard enough. I went so far as to change scopes and mounts and nothing changed. Put the scope back on my 5.56 and 1 MOA groups from a 20 yr old 16” chrome lined bushmaster that has seen over 5000 rds. NOT THE SCOPE. NOT THE SHOOTER. I did this on the same day, same bench, same lower, same scope. I put on the 7.62x39 with lesser quality scope and got better groups with military surplus ammo. In science, this is called a well conducted experiment with limited variables. I was out of ammo so I could not continue my experiment but I had had enough. I wanted my money back. I contacted JoeBob’s and shipped it back to them at no cost to myself. They are going to work with me and I am waiting to get a full refund. It is taking a little longer than expected. I can tell they are getting irritated and I don’t blame them. I think JoeBob’s is caught in the middle and thus far I have no ill feeling towards them and would still do business with them.
Bottom line, I would NOT recommend Kies to my friends and would recommend that they spend a little extra money and go with another company. I am happy with the first one (7.62x39) however customer service is extremely important to me and Travis has a lot to learn about dealing with the customer. I found the following thread below regarding their customer service policy’s which I did NOT experience. They do a great job of talking when it suits them but they don’t walk the talk in my experience. I have been around weapons my whole life, I have my own shooting range, shot expert in the military and I do NOT like being dwelt with like an idiot when it comes to weapons. I am not a gunsmith nor do I claim to know everything about AR-15s but I do know how to shoot and I know when a weapon does not shoot the way it should. I have decided to go with D-tec for my .264 LBC. I spent some time on the phone with Mike (the owner) and I was very impressed. It is a bit more money but I bet it will be worth it.
(A thread found on this forum from Kies)
Jeff, Thank you for the introduction and thanks to the forum for having me.
This is the perfect forum as well, If any of you are thinking of a new rifle in the near or distant future, please give us a look, and let us know what you want.
We are a brand new company and we specialize in AR type rifles.
What sets us apart from the myriad of AR manufactures is, customer service, Quality, value, and if we dont build exactly what you want let us know and we will build it for you at a fair price. We also have a very nice 22LR upper, that functions great with standard walmart bulk ammo.
Customer service:
I am available almost any time you call our factory, if you have an issue, or just want to get some input on your next rifle, you can talk with me directly, if you are not able to reach me there, you can always reach me by email, and it is a great rarity if it takes me more then 1 day to answer, if it does it is because i am somewhere completely isolated on a hunting or fishing trip more then likely. So when ever you need us you will always be able to talk to a "gun person" not a professional salesman who doesn't know a BCG from a LPK.
Quality:
All our lowers are billet lowers, and in keeping with our ideals of a "One Rifle System" all our uppers are caliber marked.
Each upper be it in 22lr or 458socom or any other caliber, is lapped true and square for the best possible barrel to receiver geometry and fit.
Each upper ordered by an individual is built at the time of their order so that we can make any adjustments that customer may want.
Value:
Just have a look at our prices, and what you are getting.
If you have any questions, please feel free to email me.
Thanks
Travis
Kies Firearms
1. Both uppers were purchased through Joe Bobs outfitters and I cannot say enough good things about them. They have the best customer service in a time that no one seems to even know what that means not to mention outstanding prices and next day shipping. Joe bobs is the place to go. The first upper was a 7.62x39. If you know anything about these uppers they all have had problems with shooting military surplus ammo. The primers are set too far back.
I had been thinking about getting one for years and called and asked if the Kies would shoot military surplus ammo. I was told “yes” and asked no further questions (like if I had a custom trigger). I was unable to shoot many brands of military ammo and to make a long story short I needed a longer firing pin which Kies did provide and ended up needing to change triggers. It was an honest mistake and my light Jewel trigger had not been considered when I was told yes it would fire military ammo. I was very impressed when it was all said and done with what I could do with a 7.62x39. See my review on Joe Bobs.
2. Like I said the customer service (CS) from Joe Bobs was great however the CS from Kies was a bit lacking. The owners “bedside” manner is lacking but like I said I was taken care of and I liked the upper and the price enough to purchase another. I ordered a .264 LBC (6.5 Grendel) because I wanted a long-range, highly accurate, hunting platform.
When I received my .264 the first thing I noticed was the billet charging handle would not pull back. After several pulls it came back and the same thing kept repeating. I called Joe Bob’s immediately and they said I needed to call Kies. Kies told me they make “precision” weapons with “tight” tolerances and did not seem to be concerned. After about 15-20 minutes of charging the bolt the problem seem to get better. I did notice the smell of something getting hot and noticed that the metal had been worn on the billet charging handle. Travis later told me that this was “normal”. It did the same thing to two other charging handles from my other uppers.
I have had several AR’s all with scopes and not one of them did this. The other thing I noticed was the quality of the bolt carrier. It looked NOTHING like the quality of the bolt carrier from the Kies 7.62 or my 5.56 bushmaster. It looked like it had been finished with a file or 80 grit sand paper (Kies response to this was it was a better bolt and finish). I went to clean the weapon as I do whenever I get a new one and the barrel was extremely dirtly. It required an excessive amount of cleaning. Kies promotes their “nano-ceramic” bore liner that requires very little cleaning and that is exactly what I got from the first upper. I could clean the 7.62 after shooting wolf with about 5-6 patches. This required over 15 patches after shooting a few Hornady A-max. Later Kies told me this has happened with the .264 LBC from time-to-time.
I took the upper out to my shooting range and the groups were larger at 100 yrds than using wolf ammo through the 7.62. I was using Hornady Match A-max ammo. This was the final straw and I contacted Kies and shipped the upper back after going through over 60 rds (about $60 worth of ammo). I had sent them an e-mail with photos of the targets, pile of dirty cleaning patches, bolt carrier, and even included a few targets with the upper when shipping. I was told it would take a few weeks before they could look at it. I never received any kind of conformation that they received my upper. When I contacted them asking if they received it I was told it would be about 2 weeks before they could look at it. I assumed this meant they received it.
After several weeks I called and spoke to Travis the owner. He said that he was just looking at it and was taking it out to the range right after we spoke. That was a week ago. I sent another e-mail 5 days after he was supposed to have looked at it stating that this needed to be resolved by the end of the week once again with no response. I finally got ahold of Travis and he had made it to the range a week from when he told me he was going and it shot fine and sent me photos of the targets. They were good groups. He did mention that he fed the rounds in individually and not through the magazine. I did not think anything of this until I got to the range and got the EXACT same results as before. I had gone through about 53 rds when I remember this and individually fed 4 rds. I had a good group that looked like the ones Travis sent me. Ran the last 5 rds through the magazine and it spread out again. Why the [beeep] would you run rds individually through a magazine fed weapon to test it?
It was also suggested that maybe it was my scope mount, that I tightened it too hard or not hard enough. I went so far as to change scopes and mounts and nothing changed. Put the scope back on my 5.56 and 1 MOA groups from a 20 yr old 16” chrome lined bushmaster that has seen over 5000 rds. NOT THE SCOPE. NOT THE SHOOTER. I did this on the same day, same bench, same lower, same scope. I put on the 7.62x39 with lesser quality scope and got better groups with military surplus ammo. In science, this is called a well conducted experiment with limited variables. I was out of ammo so I could not continue my experiment but I had had enough. I wanted my money back. I contacted JoeBob’s and shipped it back to them at no cost to myself. They are going to work with me and I am waiting to get a full refund. It is taking a little longer than expected. I can tell they are getting irritated and I don’t blame them. I think JoeBob’s is caught in the middle and thus far I have no ill feeling towards them and would still do business with them.
Bottom line, I would NOT recommend Kies to my friends and would recommend that they spend a little extra money and go with another company. I am happy with the first one (7.62x39) however customer service is extremely important to me and Travis has a lot to learn about dealing with the customer. I found the following thread below regarding their customer service policy’s which I did NOT experience. They do a great job of talking when it suits them but they don’t walk the talk in my experience. I have been around weapons my whole life, I have my own shooting range, shot expert in the military and I do NOT like being dwelt with like an idiot when it comes to weapons. I am not a gunsmith nor do I claim to know everything about AR-15s but I do know how to shoot and I know when a weapon does not shoot the way it should. I have decided to go with D-tec for my .264 LBC. I spent some time on the phone with Mike (the owner) and I was very impressed. It is a bit more money but I bet it will be worth it.
(A thread found on this forum from Kies)
Jeff, Thank you for the introduction and thanks to the forum for having me.
This is the perfect forum as well, If any of you are thinking of a new rifle in the near or distant future, please give us a look, and let us know what you want.
We are a brand new company and we specialize in AR type rifles.
What sets us apart from the myriad of AR manufactures is, customer service, Quality, value, and if we dont build exactly what you want let us know and we will build it for you at a fair price. We also have a very nice 22LR upper, that functions great with standard walmart bulk ammo.
Customer service:
I am available almost any time you call our factory, if you have an issue, or just want to get some input on your next rifle, you can talk with me directly, if you are not able to reach me there, you can always reach me by email, and it is a great rarity if it takes me more then 1 day to answer, if it does it is because i am somewhere completely isolated on a hunting or fishing trip more then likely. So when ever you need us you will always be able to talk to a "gun person" not a professional salesman who doesn't know a BCG from a LPK.
Quality:
All our lowers are billet lowers, and in keeping with our ideals of a "One Rifle System" all our uppers are caliber marked.
Each upper be it in 22lr or 458socom or any other caliber, is lapped true and square for the best possible barrel to receiver geometry and fit.
Each upper ordered by an individual is built at the time of their order so that we can make any adjustments that customer may want.
Value:
Just have a look at our prices, and what you are getting.
If you have any questions, please feel free to email me.
Thanks
Travis
Kies Firearms
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