Burnsome...
Well-known member
Thanks Korey for the videos and your contributions to this site. Outstanding work and kudo's for being able to handle the cold weather hunting.
Kirsch Chronicles 21 - Ep#41: 2021/2022 Coyote Season Summary
- Thread starter Kirsch
- Start date
Originally Posted By: Dark moon 63Very impressive Kirsch. I probably saw 200 coyotes last season but sure didn’t bring them home.
I'm curious, if you saw them, why couldn't you get a shot off? I'm assuming they were simply out of range?
A lot of mine have been hanging up in the 400yd range, or we see them in a field, but they simply won't respond to the call. I'd really like to be able to kill them consistently at those ranges and farther. Others don't seem to have that problem, so I wonder if it's an environment/pressure issue.
I'm curious, if you saw them, why couldn't you get a shot off? I'm assuming they were simply out of range?
A lot of mine have been hanging up in the 400yd range, or we see them in a field, but they simply won't respond to the call. I'd really like to be able to kill them consistently at those ranges and farther. Others don't seem to have that problem, so I wonder if it's an environment/pressure issue.
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Dark moon 63
New member
Originally Posted By: Ksracer
I'm curious, if you saw them, why couldn't you get a shot off? I'm assuming they were simply out of range?
A lot of mine have been hanging up in the 400yd range, or we see them in a field, but they simply won't respond to the call. I'd really like to be able to kill them consistently at those ranges and farther. Others don't seem to have that problem, so I wonder if it's an environment/pressure issue. It’s very common for me mid season and later they will hang up at 400 or so. Many times they set down and look around or drop down in a crick and I might see them come back out farther away. I try every thing from stop calling or up to I’m really in pain with a mouth call. Sometimes it works and others they walk away. I don’t take shots I’m not comfortable with. I use a mouth call 95% of the time. Vocals might help but the 5% I try them it doesn’t seem to.
I'm curious, if you saw them, why couldn't you get a shot off? I'm assuming they were simply out of range?
A lot of mine have been hanging up in the 400yd range, or we see them in a field, but they simply won't respond to the call. I'd really like to be able to kill them consistently at those ranges and farther. Others don't seem to have that problem, so I wonder if it's an environment/pressure issue. It’s very common for me mid season and later they will hang up at 400 or so. Many times they set down and look around or drop down in a crick and I might see them come back out farther away. I try every thing from stop calling or up to I’m really in pain with a mouth call. Sometimes it works and others they walk away. I don’t take shots I’m not comfortable with. I use a mouth call 95% of the time. Vocals might help but the 5% I try them it doesn’t seem to.
Kirsch
Active member
Originally Posted By: lockrotorKirsch thank you for taken the time to put all these great hunts together for everyone to come along on the hunt with you.Your welcome. Thank you for watching and for your kinds words.
Originally Posted By: lockrotorDo you know how many you shot with your AR vs bolt? I don't know the exact ratio but on a common year, I probably shoot 80% with my AR 22-250 and 20% with my bolt 22-250. This year I probably shot 60% with my bolt and 40% with my AR.
The main reason for the big drop off in my AR use was my 22-250 AR started having ejection/cycling issues. I had run it for 3-4 years without any issues. I contacted the AR manufacturer, and they thought the problem sounded like a buffer spring issue. The issue had gotten worse ever since I started shooting it suppressed. He sent me a heavier buffer spring, and I adjusted the gas again, and the problem has seemed to go away. Shooting my bolt more reminded me of how much quieter they are as well as I don't love how dirty everything gets with my AR when shooting suppressed.
There are pros and cons to both but both are very accurate shooters. I feel comfortable using both. I am actually a little surprised that I didn't forget to work the bolt or try to work it on my AR when swapping between them.
Originally Posted By: lockrotorDo you know how many you shot with your AR vs bolt? I don't know the exact ratio but on a common year, I probably shoot 80% with my AR 22-250 and 20% with my bolt 22-250. This year I probably shot 60% with my bolt and 40% with my AR.
The main reason for the big drop off in my AR use was my 22-250 AR started having ejection/cycling issues. I had run it for 3-4 years without any issues. I contacted the AR manufacturer, and they thought the problem sounded like a buffer spring issue. The issue had gotten worse ever since I started shooting it suppressed. He sent me a heavier buffer spring, and I adjusted the gas again, and the problem has seemed to go away. Shooting my bolt more reminded me of how much quieter they are as well as I don't love how dirty everything gets with my AR when shooting suppressed.
There are pros and cons to both but both are very accurate shooters. I feel comfortable using both. I am actually a little surprised that I didn't forget to work the bolt or try to work it on my AR when swapping between them.
Kirsch
Active member
Originally Posted By: Ksracer A lot of mine have been hanging up in the 400yd range, or we see them in a field, but they simply won't respond to the call. Others don't seem to have that problem, so I wonder if it's an environment/pressure issue. I don't care if a person lives in the West or the East or anywhere in between, if a person hunts enough they will encounter what you are talking about. Coyote populations and amount of hunting pressure absolutely impact this. People who live in areas with fewer coyotes and more hunting pressure experience it more frequently.
Calling an area from different stand locations and using different types of sounds are all good tips. For people who only or mainly use distress sounds, there are many other sounds that can trigger a coyote. Coyote vocalizations are one of those types of sounds whether trying to trigger a social, territorial, mating reaction that can be very impactful.
I know some here on PM have told me that I hunt in coyote nirvana and have an endless supply of fresh coyotes. I don't deny the areas I hunt have a healthy supply of coyotes. However, it happens to me as well. I had the wife of a co-worker contact me this year. They had lost virtually all their cats to coyotes. She said they had dozens of people try to call the coyotes, and it literally is just a small farmyard with a very limited acreage. They hear coyotes virtually every night, and they come in their yard and eat their cats, but no one had ever been able to kill a coyote around their property. The first thing I had the person do is contact her neighbors and see if I could get permission on their properties as well.
I was able to call the farmyard from various angles. I haven't 100% eliminated every coyote in the area, but I have yet to not get at least 1 coyote when I hunted there. Since I knew this area had been over-called, I never used common distress sounds. Kitten distress ironically led to a few of their demise. The majority of coyotes came off various vocalizations. This one little property and this group or groups of coyotes had been called by more than 12 different callers, and were highly educated but there was still a way.
I believe every coyote is "callable" because every coyote eats and has to interact with other coyotes even if a transient coyote. There are some that are much harder than others. If it was easy every time, it would lessen the fun and reward when they do respond. I am not proposing a person plays every sound on their electronic call or blows every type of hand call they own as that won't work very well. However, I would try several different types of sounds that may trigger a coyote. Once you find a sound that is working well, try using this sound and other similar sounds on your next stands as well to really fine tune what is working well.
My next tip is just because it works one night, this doesn't mean this is the magic sound or sequence. I had a record night for me this hunting season when I shot 20 coyotes in one night. I had a sound sequence that was absolutely crushing the coyotes. I went out a few nights later, in a different area, and this same sequence led to blank stand after blank stand. I needed to use an entirely different sequence on the next hunting night to have success. I am saying don't get stuck in a calling pattern just because it worked for you before.
Calling an area from different stand locations and using different types of sounds are all good tips. For people who only or mainly use distress sounds, there are many other sounds that can trigger a coyote. Coyote vocalizations are one of those types of sounds whether trying to trigger a social, territorial, mating reaction that can be very impactful.
I know some here on PM have told me that I hunt in coyote nirvana and have an endless supply of fresh coyotes. I don't deny the areas I hunt have a healthy supply of coyotes. However, it happens to me as well. I had the wife of a co-worker contact me this year. They had lost virtually all their cats to coyotes. She said they had dozens of people try to call the coyotes, and it literally is just a small farmyard with a very limited acreage. They hear coyotes virtually every night, and they come in their yard and eat their cats, but no one had ever been able to kill a coyote around their property. The first thing I had the person do is contact her neighbors and see if I could get permission on their properties as well.
I was able to call the farmyard from various angles. I haven't 100% eliminated every coyote in the area, but I have yet to not get at least 1 coyote when I hunted there. Since I knew this area had been over-called, I never used common distress sounds. Kitten distress ironically led to a few of their demise. The majority of coyotes came off various vocalizations. This one little property and this group or groups of coyotes had been called by more than 12 different callers, and were highly educated but there was still a way.
I believe every coyote is "callable" because every coyote eats and has to interact with other coyotes even if a transient coyote. There are some that are much harder than others. If it was easy every time, it would lessen the fun and reward when they do respond. I am not proposing a person plays every sound on their electronic call or blows every type of hand call they own as that won't work very well. However, I would try several different types of sounds that may trigger a coyote. Once you find a sound that is working well, try using this sound and other similar sounds on your next stands as well to really fine tune what is working well.
My next tip is just because it works one night, this doesn't mean this is the magic sound or sequence. I had a record night for me this hunting season when I shot 20 coyotes in one night. I had a sound sequence that was absolutely crushing the coyotes. I went out a few nights later, in a different area, and this same sequence led to blank stand after blank stand. I needed to use an entirely different sequence on the next hunting night to have success. I am saying don't get stuck in a calling pattern just because it worked for you before.
Originally Posted By: Kirsch
I believe every coyote is "callable" because every coyote eats and has to interact with other coyotes even if a transient coyote. There are some that are much harder than others. If it was easy every time, it would lessen the fun and reward when they do respond. I am not proposing a person plays every sound on their electronic call or blows every type of hand call they own as that won't work very well. However, I would try several different types of sounds that may trigger a coyote. Once you find a sound that is working well, try using this sound and other similar sounds on your next stands as well to really fine tune what is working well.
My next tip is just because it works one night, this doesn't mean this is the magic sound or sequence. My best night this year was 20. I had a sound sequence that was absolutely crushing the coyotes. I went out a few nights later, in a different area, and this same sequence led to blank stand after blank stand. I neededt to use an entirely different sequence.
Or I could just get a new xELR thermal and launch 75eld'm @3400fps and kill them from 600yds while they still feel safe...
Your way is probably more practical and might produce better results. My way sounds more fun!!
Seriously though, thanks for the tips and all the other help.
I believe every coyote is "callable" because every coyote eats and has to interact with other coyotes even if a transient coyote. There are some that are much harder than others. If it was easy every time, it would lessen the fun and reward when they do respond. I am not proposing a person plays every sound on their electronic call or blows every type of hand call they own as that won't work very well. However, I would try several different types of sounds that may trigger a coyote. Once you find a sound that is working well, try using this sound and other similar sounds on your next stands as well to really fine tune what is working well.
My next tip is just because it works one night, this doesn't mean this is the magic sound or sequence. My best night this year was 20. I had a sound sequence that was absolutely crushing the coyotes. I went out a few nights later, in a different area, and this same sequence led to blank stand after blank stand. I neededt to use an entirely different sequence.
Or I could just get a new xELR thermal and launch 75eld'm @3400fps and kill them from 600yds while they still feel safe...
Your way is probably more practical and might produce better results. My way sounds more fun!!
Seriously though, thanks for the tips and all the other help.
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Kirsch
Active member
Originally Posted By: Ksracer Seriously though, thanks for the tips and all the other help. One more thing to consider is another reason some coyotes hang up at longer distances is they don't feel comfortable approaching.
I totally respect people who "hand-call." I did it for years and still do on some occasions. One of the key reasons I use mainly electronics is we all know coyotes want to use their nose. I use this to my advantage and to their disadvantage. I purposely set up my stands and place the call in a manner a coyote can take the "path of least resistance" in an attempt to get downwind of the call. This may be fence lines, draws, trees, hill-sides, or whatever would be natural for them to do. I don't try to force them to do something they wouldn't normally do. In my belief and experience, coyotes don't hang up as much this way and finish better. At night this may not be quite as critical as during the day, but it is still very, very important. Just another thing to think about.
There is so much more to coyote hunting besides this spot looks good, and a person putting a call out 50 yards and start calling. In my opinion, stand and call set up is one area that really separates novice coyote hunters from the more advanced and often successful callers.
I totally respect people who "hand-call." I did it for years and still do on some occasions. One of the key reasons I use mainly electronics is we all know coyotes want to use their nose. I use this to my advantage and to their disadvantage. I purposely set up my stands and place the call in a manner a coyote can take the "path of least resistance" in an attempt to get downwind of the call. This may be fence lines, draws, trees, hill-sides, or whatever would be natural for them to do. I don't try to force them to do something they wouldn't normally do. In my belief and experience, coyotes don't hang up as much this way and finish better. At night this may not be quite as critical as during the day, but it is still very, very important. Just another thing to think about.
There is so much more to coyote hunting besides this spot looks good, and a person putting a call out 50 yards and start calling. In my opinion, stand and call set up is one area that really separates novice coyote hunters from the more advanced and often successful callers.
in this post you write: "I use a zero of .5" high at 100 yards ", but I seem to remember that previously you put zero 1" high at 100 yards ... and it was very good ... I seem to have I understand that you have changed it to decrease the maximum cant ... But, perhaps in this way, you end up too low at 400 yards .... In short, I understand that the choice of zeroing is like having a short blanket ... that covers you on one side and discovers you on the other ... With my 308W caliber I set zero at 55 yards with the Hornady Superformance (3000 ft/s) 150 grain (G2 calibration) to shoot hogs, jackals and foxes and with the fmj Fiocchi subsonic (1000 ft/s) 200 grain (G4 calibration) to shoot the coypu .... I wonder ... how much will the cant be and where will the second zero end in the 2 cases?
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Kirsch
Active member
This year I moved from a 1" high zero at 100 yards to around .5" high because I have the Super Yoter on a 5/8" riser. I am now roughly 3.3" above the bore. It is due to the additional height of the riser that I don't zero my thermal at 1" any longer. If I stayed with the same 1" high zero with my bullet and the increased height of my scope, I would be around 2" high for the majority of my shots. This would result in hitting most coyotes on the top edge of their body or maybe even missing. Moving my zero down to .5" makes the max height around 1" above my zero vs 2". I don't want to shoot over coyotes on lots of closer shots just to shoot the occasional long shot. I also cheat a little and tend to aim a little low compensating for even the 1". I wouldn't have to do this, but it is just habit, and it is more accurate.
If I have been shooting a lot of close coyotes, I will even bring it down a bit lower to about .25" high at 100. I would have to guess more than 80% of my shots are taken from 75-275 yards. Yes, I shoot an occasional coyote from 300-450 yards, but I don't want to sacrifice the accuracy for the majority of my shots for the occasional longer shots. There are lots of ballistic calculators available for free online. You just need the speed of the bullet, ballistic coefficient of the bullet, and the height above bore your scope sits. With this data, you can determine what happens to your bullet at different distances.
Keep in mind this is with a very fast, and flat shooting 22-250. If I was using slower rounds, this effect would be even more substantial.
If I have been shooting a lot of close coyotes, I will even bring it down a bit lower to about .25" high at 100. I would have to guess more than 80% of my shots are taken from 75-275 yards. Yes, I shoot an occasional coyote from 300-450 yards, but I don't want to sacrifice the accuracy for the majority of my shots for the occasional longer shots. There are lots of ballistic calculators available for free online. You just need the speed of the bullet, ballistic coefficient of the bullet, and the height above bore your scope sits. With this data, you can determine what happens to your bullet at different distances.
Keep in mind this is with a very fast, and flat shooting 22-250. If I was using slower rounds, this effect would be even more substantial.
