Ladder test effective range?

Sgt_Mike

Sgt_Mike

Well-known member
I like many I have a metric ton of projects and directions to go. Some have hit a stop point, some I'm still debating.
But all will lead to load development and seeking a accuracy node. Which is why I'm asking this, I have pre-determined "opinion" I'm hoping comments from here to either confirm or replace the opinion I have on ladder testing.

Is it really effective at 200 yards?

To define what I'm asking as to what is ladder testing.
Each round is loaded from a starting level increments of 0.3grs each. For 1 round then increase 0.3grs. Fired in the same order lowest to greatest. looking for three plus rounds
desired effect at pretty much same elevation on target to get a range (of charges) to further test at.

My pre-determined opinion is that 200 yards and less is not enough distance to actually have a dispersion to accurately tell the nodes. Leaving one with a false positive.
I "think" it will play in best at 400 yards and greater.
But will help to find the upper pressure limit so there is that regardless of range of false positive accuracy nodes even a not so ideal distances.
 
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I always start at 100yds, find the best group and start from there. Course you can always tweek the C.O.A.L to the lands to further dial her in. Personally I like to see how they're grouping at any given yardage.
 
I load and shoot the same as you while running them through a chronograph (.3 increase on small cases, .5 on large cases). What i am looking for are consecutive shots with the least velocity spread (velocity node). I continue to until I start to see pressure signs.
I'll then load 5 rounds with a powder charge in the middle of said velocity node to see how they group and to check for ES and SD.

Most the time I just scream and pull out my hair.
 
Down here it is often hard to spot bullet holes past 200 yds due to mirage. I used a chronograph @ 100, or 200 if 200 yd range available. You can generally "see" the nodes @ 100, by group size and velocity combined. I believe all the big guns in XTC shooting recommend 300 yards and if you have the range and pits to spot shot I'm sure that is more effective.
 
Generally 200 yards, and 3 shot groups for each increment, & always over the chrony.

Hopefully low ES & small groups coincide.

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Then on to a seating test:

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After posting the question I headed out to the range today.

For this one I didn't load a ladder test for this (which I usually in the past had access to ranges beyond 200 out to 1000. Dang retirement) Just don't trust the feedback from 200 using incremental load. I "think" they would group too much (close) together @ 200 and below. I maybe wrong which was the point of this thread.

Rifle:
Remington 700 PCR (factory chassis rifle that they produced right before going out by a few years) in 6.5 Needsmoor (lol needs more load development Needs more shooting) 1-8"T 5R heavy barrel (actually I think they call it a medium Bull) Just shot with the brake today, usually use suppressor.
MY Intent was for a gopher load. just for the giggle factor.

Instead of a ladder test I used a old method that I've used in the past.
I've usually been close, work about 1 gr off max and go down and up by 0.3grs find tightest then mess with seating depth to refine.
The target bullet was 100 gr sierra Varmint . Found engagement to leade backed off 0.020" which was 2.686" COAL. Sierra listed 2.650" which doesn't surprise me simple reamer difference.

I decided to go to the max load and back off 1.0 gr for RL15 netted me @42.8grs (43.6grs max per sierra) (loaded 20 rounds)
The results was the expected no pressure, fired 5 shots honest 1 inch outside to outside .... (fired this twice same exact results at 100 yards)

The next powder up was IMR 8208XBR same same as above except the charge powder and weight. I had loaded them at 40.3grs I glanced at the data wrong line and thought max was at 41.2 instead of the actual 42.1.
results 5 shot group barely edged the RL-15 load out ( I had to use calipers 0.020" smaller) . I caught this before going to the range but figured to go ahead and try them versus a breakdown.

So why ask ? Well the two powder aren't the only powder I intend on checking, The ladder should get me in a node using less bullets, primer etc.

ohhh a post while I was typing

Antgrit said:
300yds in .2gr - .3gr increments
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OK what I thought and seems DAA agrees on the range.
Well then, I guess it's pointless to attempt a Ladder test as I'm limited in ranges to less than 300 yards.
Right now the Needsmoor (needs more cleaning after firing) is soaking a bit before cleaning. ( I do like the rifle and cartridge quite a bit even though I attempt humor with it)
 
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Antgrit said:
300yds in .2gr - .3gr increments
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300 or more for a ladder if the conditions allow it.

My 1K BR gun I typically did load work at 330 yards tucked into the corner of a rock quarry, after supper, when conditions were ideal.

A good rule of thumb for increments is 10% of case capacity, give or take.

I always remember reading about a guy working up a load for his 300/378 Weatherby, which holds upwards of 120 grains of powder, in 2 tenths increments.

Hope he had Krieger on speed dial......
 
If your not using flags( wind indicators)when group testing at 200+ yards, the results have a variable that could be very misleading. Especially with ladder testing where you looking for.similar points of impact in a .4-.6 gr range of powder charge.
 
Man I’m lazy compared to you guys. I do half grain increments and find pressure. Back off that by half grain and go shoot. If I can get a 10 round group under an inch at 100, I’ll use that and take it to distance (500-1000 yards). So far, it’s always worked without any head scratchers.

Just took a 53 vmax out to 650 and 812 yards with that method.
 
Duhhh said:
Man I’m lazy compared to you guys. I do half grain increments and find pressure. Back off that by half grain and go shoot. If I can get a 10 round group under an inch at 100, I’ll use that and take it to distance (500-1000 yards). So far, it’s always worked without any head scratchers.
Just took a 53 vmax out to 650 and 812 yards with that method.
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After shooting point blank BR, Hunter BR, and 600/1000 yard BR for over 35 years, I'm preprogrammed to find the most accurate load, no matter the platform.

Doing it your way is not lazy, especially if you're satisfied with the results, & fur on the ground is the ultimate test.

Now explain what you do when your load doesn't meet your 10 shot, under an inch, benchmark.....ha ha....
 
alf said:
After shooting point blank BR, Hunter BR, and 600/1000 yard BR for over 35 years, I'm preprogrammed to find the most accurate load, no matter the platform.

Doing it your way is not lazy, especially if you're satisfied with the results, & fur on the ground is the ultimate test.

Now explain what you do when your load doesn't meet your 10 shot, under an inch, benchmark.....ha ha....
Click to expand...
Fair enough. I usually just switch powders, primers, bullets, or brass (very rarely brass). Luckily, I really haven’t run into an issue with load dev.

I recently stopped annealing, cleaning, and neck sizing brass and that’s made reloading so much more enjoyable for me.
 
Watch this series, Some really good info and aspects of reloading and ladder testing most dont think of. Tim goes way in depth using gordons reloading tool, the ladder testing video really breaks it down.
 


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