LET'S TRY THIS AGAIN, 84M Short Action Bolt Swap, Simple, or Individually Fit?

G

gunsbam45

New member
I'm wondering if got a bolt from a Kimber Pro Varmint in .204 or .223 if it is the same size and fit as the bolt in the Kimber Montana .308, 7mm-08 or .243 etc so I could rebarrel a Montana to a .222 Based cartridge?

Please see my new explanation from 2-4-20 about 3:30 PM. I apparently did not make myself clear here. Thanks guys.
 
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I think you should slow down a bit. It's clear you don't really know much about what you are getting into. I would place a WTB ad on multiple hunting/gun sites and buy a Montana. Then if you want do some smithing to it, you will be on the right track.
 
Tim's advice is good.
While addressing a feeding issue with my Kimber Varmint I took the bolt out of my Montana and put it in the Varmint to check something. Both rifles were in 204. The Montana bolt was loose in the Varmint action which surprised me. I would not go the Varmint 308 path. You will create issues you will have to address and cost a heck of a lot more money.
You can buy a Varmint in 204, rebarrel and restock it, but again, it will cost more than just finding one in 223 and rebarreling.
Patience is your friend.
 
The bolt might "Fit", but it won't work. You would need a bolt as well as a barrel if you go with a rifle with a 308 bolt face. Buy a rifle in a 17,222,223,204 and you will have the correct bolt.
 
Originally Posted By: Tim NeitzkeI think you should slow down a bit. It's clear you don't really know much about what you are getting into. I would place a WTB ad on multiple hunting/gun sites and buy a Montana. Then if you want do some smithing to it, you will be on the right track.

THIS ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
 
I apparently was not near clear enough with my question, so I will try to be clearer here. I'm a gun dealer, and I'm not new to it, but I AM new to the Kimber world. I have never owned anything made by Kimber period. I know the difference between the bolt faces. Bob Jourdan taught me how to build rifles years back, but I stayed playing with revolvers and moved away from rifles. What I'm asking is will one 84M short action bolt work in another 84M short action for PURPOSES of a rebarrel? Buying two guns to make one is NOT cheap. It would be much simpler to take the .222 face bolt from the short action 84M Pro Varmint, and put it in a short action 84M Montana and rebarrel the Montana to .204, rather than cannibalize both guns. I could then simply have the bolt replaced on the Pro Varmint and resell it. What I DON'T know is if the bolts are matched to the actions by Kimber, or if they're all just drop fit parts like every other glorified bunch of liars in "high end" manufacturing use. I would ask Kimber this, but I already tried to get information by asking to speak to someone in the shop, but what I got was a new gal in training who asked her supervisor, who she said was the shop foreman, who told me to just rebarrel ANY of their current short action calibers to .204 if I wanted, but to understand that this would void the warranty. Whoever that guy actually is, really is just as stupid as you guys apparently assume I am, but I assure you, although I'm no rocket scientist, I'm not quite that dumb. SO, here is the REAL question; are the 84M short action bolts REALLY individually fit to each action, or are they simply drop in parts that will fit all the actions of that same size, so long as the barrel is chambered in a caliber that uses the bolt face installed?

K22, not ignoring you, and sounds like you've already done the experimenting to find out, but just wanting to make sure I'm clear with the question so I can possibly get other input rather than warnings to just go eat my cereal and be good until dad gets home. Yes, I'm impatient. I honestly don't think the chances of finding either of the .222 bolt face Montanas are good, and I actually like the new bolt on the Pro Varmint better anyway, so contemplating where I'll be money wise when the smoke clears. I spend a lot of time on the net hunting down hard to find guns, and there are ZERO Montanas in either .204 or .223 showing up in ANY searches in the last few YEARS. Everything I'm seeing is old ads from 5 to 9 years ago. You should sell me that .204 Montana and go back to your beloved .17 and all the world would be right.
 
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Buying two Kimbers to build one doesn't sound logical to me and I do some dumb stuff now and then. Spend the money on a good action and build a custom rifle. Money ahead in the long run. JMO
 
I'd love to just build a new one, but can't find anyone to do it. Building a custom rifle that weighs 6# scoped is NOT CHEAP either, at least as far as I can tell at the moment, and that is IF you can actually make it happen. If you guys have suggestions on how to pull that off, I am all ears. I'm at Longford, KS bout 2 1/2 hrs straight west of KC. Jim at Manners stocks told me GA Precision does great work, so I called Ash and priced a Titanium lightweight. They want 4 and a half thousand dollars to build me one that weighs a pound more than what the .204 K22 has weighs. I can buy the Pro Varmint for a grand used. I can buy a short action Montana used for $900, so call it $2K shipped. It will be under a grand to have Mark work his magic and recreate a much better Montana contour barrel in 11 twist. That's $3K to get what I want, and I buy and sell guns and parts for a living, so I can then send the Montana back to Kimber for a stock and then resell it, then sell the Pro Varmint .204 barrel and the Pro Varmint stock. I also heard a guy on here mention Kimber said they'd sell him a Montana stock for $475. That's not what they told me, but if Kimber's CS is anything like Ruger, it may very well be I simply need to just talk to the right gal and buy the Pro Varmint and a new Montana stock. Regardless, I'm looking at about $2.5K to have the rifle I've been wanting a long time, and done right, as compared to not far off from double that to get not so much. All that said, please let me know if there are other builders who can pull it off. Another thought I've had is to ask Mark if he has a better suggestion. He shut a machine down to talk to me, so did not want to keep him too long.
 
Opportunity for a light weight dream build that you can hang onto forever.

Build it exactly how you want, shop the parts and have a full custom in the $2,500-3,000 range.

Defiance Anti is coming, weight in the range of a Ti action minus the extra cost.
 
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Been a while since it was built,so I weighed it . My semi-custom 223ai mountain rifle is 7# 1oz with a 3.5-10 x40 Leupold . If I switched the fiberglass stock for a carbon shell, it should be mid 6#.

Thinking I'm under $2k with the scope.
Ahhhh... the good ole days.
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I would buy a Sako .22-250 in the 5 lb range with the ability to shoot 35-55 gr bullets. Factory loads over 4000 fps.
 
Originally Posted By: tripod3I would buy a Sako .22-250 in the 5 lb range with the ability to shoot 35-55 gr bullets. Factory loads over 4000 fps.

Except he wants a Kimber Montana in 204 Ruger.
 
Originally Posted By: pyscodogOriginally Posted By: tripod3I would buy a Sako .22-250 in the 5 lb range with the ability to shoot 35-55 gr bullets. Factory loads over 4000 fps.

Except he wants a Kimber Montana in 204 Ruger.

He did ask for suggestions and that is mine.
 
Originally Posted By: gunsbam45I'm wondering if got a bolt from a Kimber Pro Varmint in .204 or .223 if it is the same size and fit as the bolt in the Kimber Montana .308, 7mm-08 or .243 etc so I could rebarrel a Montana to a .222 Based cartridge?

Please see my new explanation from 2-4-20 about 3:30 PM. I apparently did not make myself clear here. Thanks guys.

Your new explanation clears a lot up and certainly would have gotten different responses...however,your original post was very vague and left a lot to speculation and I think a lot of people responded seriously to try to help you...I don't think anyone thought you were "dumb". So you should not take offense to those who responded to your original post.
I still think you should go with Mark Penrod...he is very accomplished and will give you sound advice for your project. It may not be a cheap build, but you will have what you want in the end.
 
Guess I'll weight in again. LOL
gunsbam is right on the costs. When I set about to build a true Ultra light Predator rifle I owned a Rem. 7 in 17 Rem. Nice little gun, but not light, not even with an 18" barrel. That Model 7 was the platform I was going to use since I already had the rifle. Rebarreling and truing up the action would not have cost more than the Kimber work did.............but that is where it ended. The action and bolt on the Rem. weighed more than a Kimbers so work lightening work needed done there. Then I had to add a trigger as I don't find Rem trigger safe enough to lower where the Kimber trigger weight is on mine. Now the Stock. Ever priced a carbon fiber stock finished? Let alone pillar bedded?
So in my case, it was cheaper to buy another Kimber Montana in 204 and have it rebarreled and the action squared than to take an existing rifle and try and get down to the Kimber Montana weight. My Kimber Montana in 204 scoped and ready to hunt weights 6lbs. 4oz. give or take an oz. I have a total of $1850.00 in mine and that includes the cost of a new rifle in 2010 along with a new Lilja barrel.
I bought a new Kimber Varmint in 204 with the sole idea of rebarreling it to a 17-204 and installing it in a Kimber Classic stock I have unless I can find a Montana stock.
Kimber will fit Kimber rifle to a Montana stock for $475 but they have to do the work and it has to originally be a Montana rifle.
 
K22, if you don't mind, could you weigh it again, and tell me again what scope and rings you have on it? Also, do you mind pulling the screws and weighing the stock and rest of the rifle separate? I just bought one of the all stainless Pro Varmint rifles in .204, so if I knew what I'm dealing with weight wise on individual factory components from Kimber, it might help me explore other stock options more easily accessible, but may just be simplest to get a short action Montana to rob the stock from. Thanks to ALL you guys for your help so far, and hopefully will have some cat pics by this time next year with the new lightweight .204.
 
Originally Posted By: G AndersonOriginally Posted By: gunsbam45I'm wondering if got a bolt from a Kimber Pro Varmint in .204 or .223 if it is the same size and fit as the bolt in the Kimber Montana .308, 7mm-08 or .243 etc so I could rebarrel a Montana to a .222 Based cartridge?

Please see my new explanation from 2-4-20 about 3:30 PM. I apparently did not make myself clear here. Thanks guys.

Your new explanation clears a lot up and certainly would have gotten different responses...however,your original post was very vague and left a lot to speculation and I think a lot of people responded seriously to try to help you...I don't think anyone thought you were "dumb". So you should not take offense to those who responded to your original post.
I still think you should go with Mark Penrod...he is very accomplished and will give you sound advice for your project. It may not be a cheap build, but you will have what you want in the end.

G,

None taken, and I'll be sticking with Mark for the custom Kimber. I was just curious about whether other builders were offering full build lightweight rifles that could get in the weight range of the Montana.
 
Originally Posted By: gunsbam45K22, if you don't mind, could you weigh it again, and tell me again what scope and rings you have on it? Also, do you mind pulling the screws and weighing the stock and rest of the rifle separate? I just bought one of the all stainless Pro Varmint rifles in .204, so if I knew what I'm dealing with weight wise on individual factory components from Kimber, it might help me explore other stock options more easily accessible, but may just be simplest to get a short action Montana to rob the stock from. Thanks to ALL you guys for your help so far, and hopefully will have some cat pics by this time next year with the new lightweight .204.

When I get a chance I can do that, but in the meantime this may help you.
The Montana I had the 17 cal. barrel installed on weights 1oz for than the 204 Montana. The barrel is a Lilja Kimber Contour and is finished at the original 22". Both rifles have Talley Lightweight ring mounts in low. One rifle, the 204 has a VX3 2.5-8X36 and the 17 has a VX2 2-7X33 on it.
Both have Vero Vellini slings and Brute sling swivels.
I realize that I need to have nothing less than an 18X scope on them to shoot Predators way out there, but the Bobcat I shot at 225yds. I forgot to take the 2.5-8 scope off of 3X.
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