Flesh Eater
New member
More groups. Hope these links work.
![url]](http://[url=https://imgur.com/gallery/2SYuK97 t=_blank]https://imgur.com/gallery/2SYuK97[/url])
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Leupold VX-5HD Not Holding Zero...
- Thread starter Flesh Eater
- Start date
Flesh Eater
New member
Those links work. All groups are with factory ammo, factory rifles, at 100 yards at different times throughout the year. Also, the groups were shot BEFORE zeroing (learned that lesson a long time ago). Scrubbing all the copper fouling out should get my 58 grain V Max to the Fusion and Whitetail groups (I hope). The SP's aren't great for chucks.
Some ammo doesn't group well in my .243. Federal blue box, PPU, 75 grain V Max, and Winchester Varmint are like 2-3 inch groups.
EDIT: I shoot a lot. If I miss an animal I shoot a cold group, clean my rifles, shoot them cold clean, shoot them cold dirty, everything to see where my best groups are. I have a 100 yard range off my back deck. I shoot prone as I find it easier to control my breathing and trigger squeeze. I have NEVER owned rifles that shoot as well as this CZ and Tikka. However, I have discovered they both like the carbon cleaned from the barrels. Most hunters don't shoot and group their rifles enough to know what they actually do. Heck, I've had guys behind the counter try to sell me any ammo when I ask for specifics, because I'm just sighting my rifle in, right?
I might get into reloading someday, but my guns shoot well enough for me not to justify spending the money to buy all the reloading equipment.
Some ammo doesn't group well in my .243. Federal blue box, PPU, 75 grain V Max, and Winchester Varmint are like 2-3 inch groups.
EDIT: I shoot a lot. If I miss an animal I shoot a cold group, clean my rifles, shoot them cold clean, shoot them cold dirty, everything to see where my best groups are. I have a 100 yard range off my back deck. I shoot prone as I find it easier to control my breathing and trigger squeeze. I have NEVER owned rifles that shoot as well as this CZ and Tikka. However, I have discovered they both like the carbon cleaned from the barrels. Most hunters don't shoot and group their rifles enough to know what they actually do. Heck, I've had guys behind the counter try to sell me any ammo when I ask for specifics, because I'm just sighting my rifle in, right?
I might get into reloading someday, but my guns shoot well enough for me not to justify spending the money to buy all the reloading equipment.
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Bowhntr6pt
Well-known member
Originally Posted By: DiRTY DOGWow.
Originally Posted By: Flesh EaterSo, once I set this scope, I can get 1/4" groups all day long.
Originally Posted By: Flesh EaterOnce this is zeroed, I can shoot 5-6 shot groups consistently at a 1/4" or slightly larger.
Is this the part where somebody openly calls BS on the OP shooting 1/4" groups all day long with factory ammo and factory guns?
And then the OP defends his claim. But eventually admits he was wrong- he thought 1/4" groups was just a phrase meaning it shoots good, he didn't realize it was an actual measurement meaning 0.25 inches?
And then everybody quietly chuckles and shakes their heads while secretly enjoying these 1/4" groups all day long threads and similar BS 17hmr threads.
Yep.
I've referred to ARFCOM's MOA ALL DAY LONG CHALLENGE on here and to date no one has taken me up on it that I'm aware of.
People get really offended sometimes... but when you're a REAL shooter, you know what it takes to achieve MOA all day long let alone SUB-MOA all day long.
Originally Posted By: Flesh EaterSo, once I set this scope, I can get 1/4" groups all day long.
Originally Posted By: Flesh EaterOnce this is zeroed, I can shoot 5-6 shot groups consistently at a 1/4" or slightly larger.
Is this the part where somebody openly calls BS on the OP shooting 1/4" groups all day long with factory ammo and factory guns?
And then the OP defends his claim. But eventually admits he was wrong- he thought 1/4" groups was just a phrase meaning it shoots good, he didn't realize it was an actual measurement meaning 0.25 inches?
And then everybody quietly chuckles and shakes their heads while secretly enjoying these 1/4" groups all day long threads and similar BS 17hmr threads.
Yep.
I've referred to ARFCOM's MOA ALL DAY LONG CHALLENGE on here and to date no one has taken me up on it that I'm aware of.
People get really offended sometimes... but when you're a REAL shooter, you know what it takes to achieve MOA all day long let alone SUB-MOA all day long.
Flesh Eater
New member
Originally Posted By: Bowhntr6ptOriginally Posted By: DiRTY DOGWow.
Originally Posted By: Flesh EaterSo, once I set this scope, I can get 1/4" groups all day long.
Originally Posted By: Flesh EaterOnce this is zeroed, I can shoot 5-6 shot groups consistently at a 1/4" or slightly larger.
Is this the part where somebody openly calls BS on the OP shooting 1/4" groups all day long with factory ammo and factory guns?
And then the OP defends his claim. But eventually admits he was wrong- he thought 1/4" groups was just a phrase meaning it shoots good, he didn't realize it was an actual measurement meaning 0.25 inches?
And then everybody quietly chuckles and shakes their heads while secretly enjoying these 1/4" groups all day long threads and similar BS 17hmr threads.
Yep.
I've referred to ARFCOM's MOA ALL DAY LONG CHALLENGE on here and to date no one has taken me up on it that I'm aware of.
People get really offended sometimes... but when you're a REAL shooter, you know what it takes to achieve MOA all day long let alone SUB-MOA all day long.
5 shot groups on 5 targets on the same piece of paper? Can we clean throughout this or is it once you start shooting no cleaning? I’ll do it. I got ammo on order. If I shoot very well in this you all will call Bs or cheating. I posted a 5 shot group in my pics.
Originally Posted By: Flesh EaterSo, once I set this scope, I can get 1/4" groups all day long.
Originally Posted By: Flesh EaterOnce this is zeroed, I can shoot 5-6 shot groups consistently at a 1/4" or slightly larger.
Is this the part where somebody openly calls BS on the OP shooting 1/4" groups all day long with factory ammo and factory guns?
And then the OP defends his claim. But eventually admits he was wrong- he thought 1/4" groups was just a phrase meaning it shoots good, he didn't realize it was an actual measurement meaning 0.25 inches?
And then everybody quietly chuckles and shakes their heads while secretly enjoying these 1/4" groups all day long threads and similar BS 17hmr threads.
Yep.
I've referred to ARFCOM's MOA ALL DAY LONG CHALLENGE on here and to date no one has taken me up on it that I'm aware of.
People get really offended sometimes... but when you're a REAL shooter, you know what it takes to achieve MOA all day long let alone SUB-MOA all day long.
5 shot groups on 5 targets on the same piece of paper? Can we clean throughout this or is it once you start shooting no cleaning? I’ll do it. I got ammo on order. If I shoot very well in this you all will call Bs or cheating. I posted a 5 shot group in my pics.
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Bowhntr6pt
Well-known member
Originally Posted By: Flesh EaterOriginally Posted By: Bowhntr6ptOriginally Posted By: DiRTY DOGWow.
Originally Posted By: Flesh EaterSo, once I set this scope, I can get 1/4" groups all day long.
Originally Posted By: Flesh EaterOnce this is zeroed, I can shoot 5-6 shot groups consistently at a 1/4" or slightly larger.
Is this the part where somebody openly calls BS on the OP shooting 1/4" groups all day long with factory ammo and factory guns?
And then the OP defends his claim. But eventually admits he was wrong- he thought 1/4" groups was just a phrase meaning it shoots good, he didn't realize it was an actual measurement meaning 0.25 inches?
And then everybody quietly chuckles and shakes their heads while secretly enjoying these 1/4" groups all day long threads and similar BS 17hmr threads.
Yep.
I've referred to ARFCOM's MOA ALL DAY LONG CHALLENGE on here and to date no one has taken me up on it that I'm aware of.
People get really offended sometimes... but when you're a REAL shooter, you know what it takes to achieve MOA all day long let alone SUB-MOA all day long.
5 shot groups on 5 targets on the same piece of paper? Can we clean throughout this or is it once you start shooting no cleaning? I’ll do it. I got ammo on order. If I shoot very well in this you all will call Bs or cheating. I posted a 5 shot group in my pics.
Relax... it's just the internet.
Shooting very well and shooting 1/4" 5-shot groups all day are quite different don't you think?
You have nothing to prove... to me anyway. Looks like your set up shoots good.
Originally Posted By: Flesh EaterSo, once I set this scope, I can get 1/4" groups all day long.
Originally Posted By: Flesh EaterOnce this is zeroed, I can shoot 5-6 shot groups consistently at a 1/4" or slightly larger.
Is this the part where somebody openly calls BS on the OP shooting 1/4" groups all day long with factory ammo and factory guns?
And then the OP defends his claim. But eventually admits he was wrong- he thought 1/4" groups was just a phrase meaning it shoots good, he didn't realize it was an actual measurement meaning 0.25 inches?
And then everybody quietly chuckles and shakes their heads while secretly enjoying these 1/4" groups all day long threads and similar BS 17hmr threads.
Yep.
I've referred to ARFCOM's MOA ALL DAY LONG CHALLENGE on here and to date no one has taken me up on it that I'm aware of.
People get really offended sometimes... but when you're a REAL shooter, you know what it takes to achieve MOA all day long let alone SUB-MOA all day long.
5 shot groups on 5 targets on the same piece of paper? Can we clean throughout this or is it once you start shooting no cleaning? I’ll do it. I got ammo on order. If I shoot very well in this you all will call Bs or cheating. I posted a 5 shot group in my pics.
Relax... it's just the internet.
Shooting very well and shooting 1/4" 5-shot groups all day are quite different don't you think?
You have nothing to prove... to me anyway. Looks like your set up shoots good.
Clean as much or as little as the barrel tells you to. Use a separate target or mothball for fouling shots and sighters if needed. Use wind flags or wait for great conditions, or better yet wait for great conditions AND use wind flags. Give yourself and your rifle every advantage possible.
But, yeah, I'll admit it, if a factory rifle with factory ammo shows five, 5-shot groups under 1/4 MOA at 100 yards, maybe not out loud but in my own mind I'll call BS.
It's just not something that jibes with reality for me. Your pictures aren't showing quarter inch potential to me either.
I think it's mostly a matter of definition. What constitutes a quarter inch group and what "all day" might mean. I think they mean VERY different things to most guys than they do to me.
Here's a target that shows quarter inch "potential". I don't call it a quarter inch gun though because over time and many groups it aggs more like high 2's to low 3's. In truth, it is not a quarter inch all day gun. It's a quarter inch once in awhile on a perfect day gun. It is a genuine sub .4 MOA gun. Although it might do it, I wouldn't want to bet any money on showing genuine .3 MOA on any give day though. It might, it might not agg under .3 on any given day. So to me, this is what I would call a .350 gun.
Four, 5-shot groups, back-to-back-to-back. The lower right, isn't a group, it's the sighter/fouler mothball. Only took the picture because of the fly that landed while I was on the scope and decided to splat.
Factory guns with factory ammo just don't shoot like that. And even that, isn't really a quarter inch all day gun. It was just a quarter inch on that day, when BTW, it was new and still had it's guilt edge, which doesn't last very long - not that really fine guilt edge, it goes away fairly fast with round count.
None of it matters anyway. Your rifles look like they shoot plenty good enough for the intended use. More just a matter of "we aren't speaking the same language". Which doesn't matter, at all, really. Just means that sticklers like me know your guns don't shoot quarter inch all day, and probably don't even shoot half inch all day, even though you honestly believe they do. And when we are bored, we'll jump on it and make a big deal out of it, for no good reason. I don't get into this stuff very often anymore, I just glaze over and skip to the next post at first mention of quarter inch. I mostly glaze over and skip to the next post when I read half inch - it's just not being spoken in the same language I use. They are hunting rifles. It doesn't matter. No big whup. I read this thread this far because DD posted on it and I read his posts.
But hey! I have a 2-10 VX5 HD on my AR. Absolutely love the scope for the application. The fire dot combined with 2x and the "fast follow up shot feature" of the AR is awesome. Was popping jackrabbits on the run with it yesterday almost better than I could believe. Easy to hit kamikaze coyotes with. But! The dang thing has started to eat batteries. First battery lasted most of a year. Now second and third batteries have gone flat very quickly. I never remember to turn it off for storage, but if it's working right that shouldn't matter. For now, I'm using it a lot and not going to take it out of service to deal with Leupold about it, I'm just keeping spare batteries handy. It's kinda pizzing me off though and I figure come summer time when it won't be getting used much I'll have to send it in. Good thing Leupold's warranty department gets so much practice so they are so good
.
- DAA
But, yeah, I'll admit it, if a factory rifle with factory ammo shows five, 5-shot groups under 1/4 MOA at 100 yards, maybe not out loud but in my own mind I'll call BS.
I think it's mostly a matter of definition. What constitutes a quarter inch group and what "all day" might mean. I think they mean VERY different things to most guys than they do to me.
Here's a target that shows quarter inch "potential". I don't call it a quarter inch gun though because over time and many groups it aggs more like high 2's to low 3's. In truth, it is not a quarter inch all day gun. It's a quarter inch once in awhile on a perfect day gun. It is a genuine sub .4 MOA gun. Although it might do it, I wouldn't want to bet any money on showing genuine .3 MOA on any give day though. It might, it might not agg under .3 on any given day. So to me, this is what I would call a .350 gun.
Four, 5-shot groups, back-to-back-to-back. The lower right, isn't a group, it's the sighter/fouler mothball. Only took the picture because of the fly that landed while I was on the scope and decided to splat.
Factory guns with factory ammo just don't shoot like that. And even that, isn't really a quarter inch all day gun. It was just a quarter inch on that day, when BTW, it was new and still had it's guilt edge, which doesn't last very long - not that really fine guilt edge, it goes away fairly fast with round count.
None of it matters anyway. Your rifles look like they shoot plenty good enough for the intended use. More just a matter of "we aren't speaking the same language". Which doesn't matter, at all, really. Just means that sticklers like me know your guns don't shoot quarter inch all day, and probably don't even shoot half inch all day, even though you honestly believe they do. And when we are bored, we'll jump on it and make a big deal out of it, for no good reason. I don't get into this stuff very often anymore, I just glaze over and skip to the next post at first mention of quarter inch. I mostly glaze over and skip to the next post when I read half inch - it's just not being spoken in the same language I use. They are hunting rifles. It doesn't matter. No big whup. I read this thread this far because DD posted on it and I read his posts.
But hey! I have a 2-10 VX5 HD on my AR. Absolutely love the scope for the application. The fire dot combined with 2x and the "fast follow up shot feature" of the AR is awesome. Was popping jackrabbits on the run with it yesterday almost better than I could believe. Easy to hit kamikaze coyotes with. But! The dang thing has started to eat batteries. First battery lasted most of a year. Now second and third batteries have gone flat very quickly. I never remember to turn it off for storage, but if it's working right that shouldn't matter. For now, I'm using it a lot and not going to take it out of service to deal with Leupold about it, I'm just keeping spare batteries handy. It's kinda pizzing me off though and I figure come summer time when it won't be getting used much I'll have to send it in. Good thing Leupold's warranty department gets so much practice so they are so good
- DAA
Flesh Eater
New member
Originally Posted By: DAAClean as much or as little as the barrel tells you to. Use a separate target or mothball for fouling shots and sighters if needed. Use wind flags or wait for great conditions, or better yet wait for great conditions AND use wind flags. Give yourself and your rifle every advantage possible.
But, yeah, I'll admit it, if a factory rifle with factory ammo shows five, 5-shot groups under 1/4 MOA at 100 yards, maybe not out loud but in my own mind I'll call BS.
It's just not something that jibes with reality for me. Your pictures aren't showing quarter inch potential to me either.
I think it's mostly a matter of definition. What constitutes a quarter inch group and what "all day" might mean. I think they mean VERY different things to most guys than they do to me.
Here's a target that shows quarter inch "potential". I don't call it a quarter inch gun though because over time and many groups it aggs more like high 2's to low 3's. In truth, it is not a quarter inch all day gun. It's a quarter inch once in awhile on a perfect day gun. It is a genuine sub .4 MOA gun. Although it might do it, I wouldn't want to bet any money on showing genuine .3 MOA on any give day though. It might, it might not agg under .3 on any given day. So to me, this is what I would call a .350 gun.
Four, 5-shot groups, back-to-back-to-back. The lower right, isn't a group, it's the sighter/fouler mothball. Only took the picture because of the fly that landed while I was on the scope and decided to splat.
Factory guns with factory ammo just don't shoot like that. And even that, isn't really a quarter inch all day gun. It was just a quarter inch on that day, when BTW, it was new and still had it's guilt edge, which doesn't last very long - not that really fine guilt edge, it goes away fairly fast with round count.
None of it matters anyway. Your rifles look like they shoot plenty good enough for the intended use. More just a matter of "we aren't speaking the same language". Which doesn't matter, at all, really. Just means that sticklers like me know your guns don't shoot quarter inch all day, and probably don't even shoot half inch all day, even though you honestly believe they do. And when we are bored, we'll jump on it and make a big deal out of it, for no good reason. I don't get into this stuff very often anymore, I just glaze over and skip to the next post at first mention of quarter inch. I mostly glaze over and skip to the next post when I read half inch - it's just not being spoken in the same language I use. They are hunting rifles. It doesn't matter. No big whup. I read this thread this far because DD posted on it and I read his posts.
But hey! I have a 2-10 VX5 HD on my AR. Absolutely love the scope for the application. The fire dot combined with 2x and the "fast follow up shot feature" of the AR is awesome. Was popping jackrabbits on the run with it yesterday almost better than I could believe. Easy to hit kamikaze coyotes with. But! The dang thing has started to eat batteries. First battery lasted most of a year. Now second and third batteries have gone flat very quickly. I never remember to turn it off for storage, but if it's working right that shouldn't matter. For now, I'm using it a lot and not going to take it out of service to deal with Leupold about it, I'm just keeping spare batteries handy. It's kinda pizzing me off though and I figure come summer time when it won't be getting used much I'll have to send it in. Good thing Leupold's warranty department gets so much practice so they are so good
.
- DAA
All day long probably wasn't the phrasing I should've used (forgot everyone hangs onto every word on the interwebs), but these rifles do have the potential to shoot unbelievably tight groups with factory ammo. Even 1/2" in my opinion is impressive for a $600-$800 off the shelf rifle.
I was doing some shooting today. After about 20 rounds of V MAX, my .17 Hornet started grouping the 25 grain JHP quite well...then I cleaned the barrel. I can't hold the 25 grain JHP in under 3". Guess I'll be ordering more ammo this week.
My rifles seem to shoot the nest with a clean, cold barrel, which is great I suppose since they're hunting rifles.
What accuracy do you expect in your hunting rifles/scopes?
But, yeah, I'll admit it, if a factory rifle with factory ammo shows five, 5-shot groups under 1/4 MOA at 100 yards, maybe not out loud but in my own mind I'll call BS.
I think it's mostly a matter of definition. What constitutes a quarter inch group and what "all day" might mean. I think they mean VERY different things to most guys than they do to me.
Here's a target that shows quarter inch "potential". I don't call it a quarter inch gun though because over time and many groups it aggs more like high 2's to low 3's. In truth, it is not a quarter inch all day gun. It's a quarter inch once in awhile on a perfect day gun. It is a genuine sub .4 MOA gun. Although it might do it, I wouldn't want to bet any money on showing genuine .3 MOA on any give day though. It might, it might not agg under .3 on any given day. So to me, this is what I would call a .350 gun.
Four, 5-shot groups, back-to-back-to-back. The lower right, isn't a group, it's the sighter/fouler mothball. Only took the picture because of the fly that landed while I was on the scope and decided to splat.
Factory guns with factory ammo just don't shoot like that. And even that, isn't really a quarter inch all day gun. It was just a quarter inch on that day, when BTW, it was new and still had it's guilt edge, which doesn't last very long - not that really fine guilt edge, it goes away fairly fast with round count.
None of it matters anyway. Your rifles look like they shoot plenty good enough for the intended use. More just a matter of "we aren't speaking the same language". Which doesn't matter, at all, really. Just means that sticklers like me know your guns don't shoot quarter inch all day, and probably don't even shoot half inch all day, even though you honestly believe they do. And when we are bored, we'll jump on it and make a big deal out of it, for no good reason. I don't get into this stuff very often anymore, I just glaze over and skip to the next post at first mention of quarter inch. I mostly glaze over and skip to the next post when I read half inch - it's just not being spoken in the same language I use. They are hunting rifles. It doesn't matter. No big whup. I read this thread this far because DD posted on it and I read his posts.
But hey! I have a 2-10 VX5 HD on my AR. Absolutely love the scope for the application. The fire dot combined with 2x and the "fast follow up shot feature" of the AR is awesome. Was popping jackrabbits on the run with it yesterday almost better than I could believe. Easy to hit kamikaze coyotes with. But! The dang thing has started to eat batteries. First battery lasted most of a year. Now second and third batteries have gone flat very quickly. I never remember to turn it off for storage, but if it's working right that shouldn't matter. For now, I'm using it a lot and not going to take it out of service to deal with Leupold about it, I'm just keeping spare batteries handy. It's kinda pizzing me off though and I figure come summer time when it won't be getting used much I'll have to send it in. Good thing Leupold's warranty department gets so much practice so they are so good
- DAA
All day long probably wasn't the phrasing I should've used (forgot everyone hangs onto every word on the interwebs), but these rifles do have the potential to shoot unbelievably tight groups with factory ammo. Even 1/2" in my opinion is impressive for a $600-$800 off the shelf rifle.
I was doing some shooting today. After about 20 rounds of V MAX, my .17 Hornet started grouping the 25 grain JHP quite well...then I cleaned the barrel. I can't hold the 25 grain JHP in under 3". Guess I'll be ordering more ammo this week.
My rifles seem to shoot the nest with a clean, cold barrel, which is great I suppose since they're hunting rifles.
What accuracy do you expect in your hunting rifles/scopes?
DiRTY DOG
Well-known member
Pretty sure I called this outcome with remarkable precision.
Originally Posted By: DiRTY DOG
And then the OP defends his claim. But eventually admits he was wrong- he thought 1/4" groups was just a phrase meaning it shoots good, he didn't realize it was an actual measurement meaning 0.25"
Originally Posted By: Flesh Eater
All day long probably wasn't the phrasing I should've used (forgot everyone hangs onto every word on the interwebs), but these rifles do have the potential to shoot unbelievably tight groups with factory ammo.
Your rifles do appear to shoot well for factory rifles. You chose well.
Originally Posted By: DiRTY DOG
And then the OP defends his claim. But eventually admits he was wrong- he thought 1/4" groups was just a phrase meaning it shoots good, he didn't realize it was an actual measurement meaning 0.25"
Originally Posted By: Flesh Eater
All day long probably wasn't the phrasing I should've used (forgot everyone hangs onto every word on the interwebs), but these rifles do have the potential to shoot unbelievably tight groups with factory ammo.
Your rifles do appear to shoot well for factory rifles. You chose well.
Flesh Eater
New member
Originally Posted By: DiRTY DOGPretty sure I called this outcome with remarkable precision.
Originally Posted By: DiRTY DOG
And then the OP defends his claim. But eventually admits he was wrong- he thought 1/4" groups was just a phrase meaning it shoots good, he didn't realize it was an actual measurement meaning 0.25"
Originally Posted By: Flesh Eater
All day long probably wasn't the phrasing I should've used (forgot everyone hangs onto every word on the interwebs), but these rifles do have the potential to shoot unbelievably tight groups with factory ammo.
Your rifles do appear to shoot well for factory rifles. You chose well.
So, I checked out the end of my barrel on my .243 and the copper fouling is horrible. With that said, a 9/16” group is solid for a fouled barrel. Haha! I scrubbed it tonight and had to let the bore soak. I’ll get back to cleaning tomorrow. Then shoot it with a clean bore when more ammo arrives.
Originally Posted By: DiRTY DOG
And then the OP defends his claim. But eventually admits he was wrong- he thought 1/4" groups was just a phrase meaning it shoots good, he didn't realize it was an actual measurement meaning 0.25"
Originally Posted By: Flesh Eater
All day long probably wasn't the phrasing I should've used (forgot everyone hangs onto every word on the interwebs), but these rifles do have the potential to shoot unbelievably tight groups with factory ammo.
Your rifles do appear to shoot well for factory rifles. You chose well.
So, I checked out the end of my barrel on my .243 and the copper fouling is horrible. With that said, a 9/16” group is solid for a fouled barrel. Haha! I scrubbed it tonight and had to let the bore soak. I’ll get back to cleaning tomorrow. Then shoot it with a clean bore when more ammo arrives.
Originally Posted By: Flesh EaterOriginally Posted By: GhostmanImagine that....a Leupold scope that doesn't hold zero or track accurately.
Common, then?
$1,100 for a scope that can’t hold zero is outrageous.
I would agree if it is the scope. He sent it to Leupold & it checked negative for defects.
I own a lot of Leupolds. Never had a defective one.
US law enforcment agencies & US Military use Leupold. Gotta be a reason for that.
I have no clue of cause of his group deviation. My guess is it's not related to scopes. When scopes lose zero, they're off by feet, not fractions of an inch.
Common, then?
$1,100 for a scope that can’t hold zero is outrageous.
I would agree if it is the scope. He sent it to Leupold & it checked negative for defects.
I own a lot of Leupolds. Never had a defective one.
US law enforcment agencies & US Military use Leupold. Gotta be a reason for that.
I have no clue of cause of his group deviation. My guess is it's not related to scopes. When scopes lose zero, they're off by feet, not fractions of an inch.
Redneckbmxer24
New member
A couple points on the matter.
1. If your rifle has to acclimate to the temperature to be repeatable then you have a bedding issue, not a barrel temp issue. Depending on your stock material/bedding normal temperature changes will cause the material to shrink or expand and change your action torque. This can cause a POI shift without a doubt. The barrels temp whether it stars at 0 degrees or 100 degrees should have no bearing on POI, that 100 degree shift that is extreme to us is nothing to a steel barrel, they increase in temperature way more than that when shooting a string.
2. Your barrel should not have POI shifts from one day to another from being clean or dirty, I have never heard of such a thing and that's not how barrels work. Generally a barrel will be more accurate when fouled, usually it takes 5-10 shots after a good cleaning for the barrel to settle in but it's not uncommon for some barrels to take more. I've had barrels that have taken as many at 30-40 rounds before they tighten up and are consistent after a cleaning. This is why I only do a thorough cleaning when the barrel needs it from extreme fouling that will effect accuracy. For some really fast small bore rounds they may foul quicker to the point of needing cleaning, but most centerfire rounds are capable of going several hundred rounds between cleanings with nothing more than a bore snake pulled through after a shooting session to get the loose stuff out.
How many rounds are on your barrel and whether it's broken in also plays a significant role in how it shoots when fouling up and how long it will shoot before it's too fouled. I'm not talking about barrel break in procedures because pushing an abrasive brush down a bore after a round for 50 rounds doesn't work and it doesn't take a genius to figure out why. Generally a good hand lapped barrel will take 150-250 rounds to smooth up and a factory grade barrel usually take 200-300 but some really rough ones can take longer. The Tubbs final finish system works really well to speed up this process without taking a bunch of rounds and burning up your throat. IMO it's a must for factory barrels but even top quality hand lapped barrels I will start by putting 3-5 of the throat maintenance bullets (same as the finest compound final finish) and then run a two more every 300-400 rounds right before I will clean the barrel. I'd highly recommend using the final finish if you've got a barrel that's being finicky.
1. If your rifle has to acclimate to the temperature to be repeatable then you have a bedding issue, not a barrel temp issue. Depending on your stock material/bedding normal temperature changes will cause the material to shrink or expand and change your action torque. This can cause a POI shift without a doubt. The barrels temp whether it stars at 0 degrees or 100 degrees should have no bearing on POI, that 100 degree shift that is extreme to us is nothing to a steel barrel, they increase in temperature way more than that when shooting a string.
2. Your barrel should not have POI shifts from one day to another from being clean or dirty, I have never heard of such a thing and that's not how barrels work. Generally a barrel will be more accurate when fouled, usually it takes 5-10 shots after a good cleaning for the barrel to settle in but it's not uncommon for some barrels to take more. I've had barrels that have taken as many at 30-40 rounds before they tighten up and are consistent after a cleaning. This is why I only do a thorough cleaning when the barrel needs it from extreme fouling that will effect accuracy. For some really fast small bore rounds they may foul quicker to the point of needing cleaning, but most centerfire rounds are capable of going several hundred rounds between cleanings with nothing more than a bore snake pulled through after a shooting session to get the loose stuff out.
How many rounds are on your barrel and whether it's broken in also plays a significant role in how it shoots when fouling up and how long it will shoot before it's too fouled. I'm not talking about barrel break in procedures because pushing an abrasive brush down a bore after a round for 50 rounds doesn't work and it doesn't take a genius to figure out why. Generally a good hand lapped barrel will take 150-250 rounds to smooth up and a factory grade barrel usually take 200-300 but some really rough ones can take longer. The Tubbs final finish system works really well to speed up this process without taking a bunch of rounds and burning up your throat. IMO it's a must for factory barrels but even top quality hand lapped barrels I will start by putting 3-5 of the throat maintenance bullets (same as the finest compound final finish) and then run a two more every 300-400 rounds right before I will clean the barrel. I'd highly recommend using the final finish if you've got a barrel that's being finicky.