Light, fox friendly 223 loads?

ARCOREY

ARCOREY

New member
I am still working on my Baikal 12ga over 223 gun. It shoots the 40 gr. v-max pretty well and seems to prefer the light bullets ( I think it is 1-12"). Anybody got a pet load that won't skin the foxes when you hit them. Every one I've shot with a 223 was neck shot head on and blew them to pieces with my AR and my T/C. I want this to be my sole predator gun. I'm wanting to try and save some hides this year. Right now I'm pushing 40 gr. v-maxes out of it with 26 gr BL-C(2). I get the same results with the White box Winnie's on them also. I'm mainly looking for bullet recommendations and velocities, exact loads not necessary.
 
I feel for ya friend. I blow them up alot with my .17 Rem. What I've learned about the little greys I shoot a lot is speed kills the hide. If you use an explosive bullet like the Vmax you will (sometimes) get one hole and detonation inside the amimal. That one hole can be large. Or you can try an expanding or sturdy match bullet like the Berger match and possible get 2 caliber sized holes if you dont hit a large bone.

With your firearm Id use the 12ga with 2 or 4 shot on the fox and save the .223 for coyotes. In my experiance I've had maybe 75% of my fox come in within shotgun range anyways. But the few coyotes I do call tend to hang back further and dont come in as easy as fox.

I've seen excesive damage to fox with the .22 mag and .22 hornet. I honestly dont think there is a round made thats perfect for coyotes and fox. No matter what bullet you choose the speed it takes to get the .223 accurate enough is still gonna cause you to tear some hides up.

Just my 2 cents.
 
Using a .223 for Fox? You better install a bayonet and knife them. I can tell you that the Hornady TAP 60 grn, well, it ISN'T fox friendly!!!
 
I have a Marlin HMR but I really wanted a one gun solution for cat, dogs, and fox. I guess I'm expecting too much. Most of my shots will probably be with the 12 ga, but the rifle is nice when they run to 100 yds and look back at the light or if Mr. Wiley comes calling. I guess I'll have to quit hitting those necks and start hitting heads when possible, kinda hard at night though /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused1.gif.
 
ARCOREY I think sleddog had a load for the 223 that was fur friendly. I thought I had it in my files but it didn't come up. I'm thinking of getting one of spartans for the same reason. Maybe we can figure something out.
 
Guys, look into the 52gr hp from Sierra. With the right amount of Win748 behind it, you will like the end results.

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Both of these groundhogs were body shots...one no exit, the other a smaller than dime sized exit hole.
 
A pasture poodle and a little grey fox is not a real good comparision, the groundhog will soak up a lot of punch, my pard in PA has shot some with his 25-06 and 100 grain Ballistic tips, and had no exits, the same load will literally disinigrate a little grey.
I have real good luck using my 19 Calhoon, with a 27 grain bullet on our western greys,and a 17 HMR is near perfect medicine for them. Our grey fox are comparable in size and heft to a large jackrabbit.
Sorry to say, a 223 is just way to much gun for a grey.
 
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J.Holly, that is the same gun I'm working on now, except mine is the older Baikal. I shot it yesterday, let me tell you, this is no continuous fire gun. Two maybe three shots is all you get before the barrel heats up and starts stringing out shots. It took me two days to sight it in. I basically shot 1 adjusted fired another and put it up. I hit a can 3 times at 275 yds and another guy hit one at 200 yds never having shot the gun before. I think I'm going to like it if I don't blow everything in half.


JAMaidens, I have to agree with ChileRojo on the groundhog versus grey fox construction. Some of these eastern hogs can take a pretty good lick and not look worse for wear. I do like testing on the pups though, they are closer to fox consistancy. Luckily the pups are out and perfect for testing right now. Tomorrow I'll be testing some 40 gr. vmaxes with 26 gr. BL-C(2) on them between AR shots and getting use to the combo gun some more while walking. May even try some pup distress calls at day break and see if Mr. Wiley shows up /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused1.gif. Nice looking T/C you got there BTW /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grinning-smiley-003.gif.
 
I have only shot one red fox with these loads, I got the same results as the exit hole on the smaller of the two hogs. I didn't have a digital cam back then (I don't think anyone did?) /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif The Hornet gets most of my fox hunting trips...

The T/C has been my longest running predator gun besides the Savage 340 Hornet... it is a custom shop 24" bull, that pic was the "casual" stock set. The "sweet mother of God" stock set looks a little like this:

new223small.jpg
 
Dang, I thought I was the only cool guy on here! Now there are TWO of us!!!!! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif Nice rig and that press does look familiar? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif Gotta love the T/C Contenders! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/bowingsmilie.gif
 
Yea, I love my Contenders, yes I have 2 frames. I know they are switch barrel guns, I just prefer one frame for pistol and the other for rifle even though both were purchased pistol. I had a 3 or 4 year run with an Encore resulting in three dead bucks, 2 on the wall. I've never had a gun give me so much heartache /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/angry-smiley-055.gif. I couldn't even call my shots with that thing. I can shoot my bow better at 100 yds than I could my Encore. The deer were just good luck I believe. I traded that chunk of scrap metal on my RRA 24" upper and scope and some accessories. Best trade I ever made. JAMaidens, I don't have a shot glass full of brass, but did remove a couple of Keystone light cans for the picture /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif.
 
Arcorey...I would try a 55gr rem psp corelok..I head shot a deer..small hole in and maybe 3x out..deer did the pile drop!! Maybe try a lung shot for fox..I was really impressed on the deer..
 
ARCOREY - Take this suggestion with a grain of salt, as I've never loaded for fox (not many around my parts), but if I were going to with your caliber and twist, I'd probably start with something like a 33 gr. Speer TNT and try to push it with a load of something like 800X or Bluedot to anywhere between 2600-3000 fps...Like I said, just a thought...others please feel free to interject if they've tried something similar and I'm way off base /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smiliesmack.gif
 
If you want to be fox friendly, the most important thing is to make sure you miss the fox. Doesn't matter what load, just be sure to miss. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smiliesmack.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smiliesmack.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smiliesmack.gif

Jack
 
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JAMaidens, I don't have a shot glass full of brass, but did remove a couple of Keystone light cans for the picture /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif.



/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif Keystone? I didn't know they got all the way down into VA? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif

Jack, the only fur friendly loads for fox (that I have found) was the Sierra 45gr round nose Hornet bullets. They make very little trouble on a fox. You just make sure you hit them right... no shoulder, high spine, or head shots. Then they came out with the 35gr V-max and I thought my troubles were over. It is a great little bullet, but you have to step the charges down a little. I still stick with AA1680 on my Hornet loads, it has always worked VERY well in my Savage.
 
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