loaded rounds in a tumbler
- Thread starter borkon
- Start date
Evil_Lurker
New member
Quote:You forget, YOU'RE the one who wants to try it.
I do it all the time.
Quote:I've done it. You want to keep an eye on the exposed lead tips, because they'll start to erode fairly fast. I did a batch of Nosler Partitions once and the media was undercutting the tip where it was bonded to the jacket.
Just sayin.
See? That was the first post I made in this thread. Been there, done that, still have both eyes.
I do it all the time.
Quote:I've done it. You want to keep an eye on the exposed lead tips, because they'll start to erode fairly fast. I did a batch of Nosler Partitions once and the media was undercutting the tip where it was bonded to the jacket.
Just sayin.
See? That was the first post I made in this thread. Been there, done that, still have both eyes.
JBPrecision
New member
Just out of curiosity, why does every question asked on this forum turn into a pi$$ing match?
Originally Posted By: JBPrecisionJust out of curiosity, why does every question asked on this forum turn into a pi$$ing match?
There are actually just certain topics that ALWAYS generate pixxin matches. ...ie
.223 is it effective for deer
.17 HMR coyotes
tumbling loaded ammo
The longer you are involved in gun nut forums the quicker you will recognize and avoid them....or not.
There are actually just certain topics that ALWAYS generate pixxin matches. ...ie
.223 is it effective for deer
.17 HMR coyotes
tumbling loaded ammo
The longer you are involved in gun nut forums the quicker you will recognize and avoid them....or not.
JBPrecision
New member
You're exactly right bud, I offer my opinion and just stand back. Just makes a guy wonder though how many people don't post for fear of being torn up and belittled
Originally Posted By: skb2706Originally Posted By: JBPrecisionJust out of curiosity, why does every question asked on this forum turn into a pi$$ing match?
There are actually just certain topics that ALWAYS generate pixxin matches. ...ie
.223 is it effective for deer
.17 HMR coyotes
tumbling loaded ammo
The longer you are involved in gun nut forums the quicker you will recognize and avoid them....or not.
I guess the tumbling loaded ammo is a new one for me. Seems like nonsense (no reason for me to even consider it), but to each their own. I wish 'em luck.
There are actually just certain topics that ALWAYS generate pixxin matches. ...ie
.223 is it effective for deer
.17 HMR coyotes
tumbling loaded ammo
The longer you are involved in gun nut forums the quicker you will recognize and avoid them....or not.
I guess the tumbling loaded ammo is a new one for me. Seems like nonsense (no reason for me to even consider it), but to each their own. I wish 'em luck.
ballistictip
New member
what about the effects on the bullets, could it effect bullet pull on none crimped rounds,concentricity,weight, a whole lot of shaken goen on(;
JBPrecision
New member
Daryl, I wouldn't try it either (too many variables) but to each his own like you said
Originally Posted By: JBPrecisionJust out of curiosity, why does every question asked on this forum turn into a pi$$ing match? I disagree with you JB as I personally have seen one or two (wish I could post pics) questions that have not turned into pi$$ing matches, wiener fights maybe,but certainly not pi$$ing matches. By the way if it does come to a pi$$ing match I can pi$$ into one hole all day long!!! lolrotf
ballistictip
New member
guys its the same no matter where you are or what you are doing everybody has there own opinion on how or why something is done, some people think they are right but quite the issue because they dont want argue and some people wont give in no matter what if they think they are right,some don't give in even if they think they may be wrong just to argue,sometimes it's just as productive to express your point of view and move on than to get upset.jmo how about them cardinals!
Originally Posted By: skb2706thick skin helps..............
In all honesty, it's not thick skin that concerns me.
When someone asks such a question, I figure they ought to make a semi-knowledgeable decision.
Some claim to have tried it, and report no problems.
Reloading manuals generally advise against it.
If someone knows both of these, and makes a decision based on that knowledge, then I have no problem with their decision no matter which way they go. If they decide to do it and have good results, then all is well; if they blow up their gun, it's their own fault.
and either way, I won't be offended by their results.
But, the next time someone asks the question, I may very well be inclined to make sure that THEIR decision is equally informed, no matter how many others have tried it with good results.
Reduced loads in the .223 are/were popular, and some reported excellent results. A few blew up their rifles though. Is it worth the risk? Not to me, but some still do it, and I wish them well.
Daryl
In all honesty, it's not thick skin that concerns me.
When someone asks such a question, I figure they ought to make a semi-knowledgeable decision.
Some claim to have tried it, and report no problems.
Reloading manuals generally advise against it.
If someone knows both of these, and makes a decision based on that knowledge, then I have no problem with their decision no matter which way they go. If they decide to do it and have good results, then all is well; if they blow up their gun, it's their own fault.
and either way, I won't be offended by their results.
But, the next time someone asks the question, I may very well be inclined to make sure that THEIR decision is equally informed, no matter how many others have tried it with good results.
Reduced loads in the .223 are/were popular, and some reported excellent results. A few blew up their rifles though. Is it worth the risk? Not to me, but some still do it, and I wish them well.
Daryl
cornstalker
Active member
Okay, here is Hodgdon's response.
Tumbling loaded rounds can break down the propellant. This will change the burn rate of the powder. I don’t recommend the practice.
Dave Campbell
Hodgdon Powder Company
Ballistician/Customer Service
But then, what does he know?
Haven't heard from Alliant yet. Will let you know.
Tumbling loaded rounds can break down the propellant. This will change the burn rate of the powder. I don’t recommend the practice.
Dave Campbell
Hodgdon Powder Company
Ballistician/Customer Service
But then, what does he know?
Haven't heard from Alliant yet. Will let you know.
RE: Technical Inquiries‏
From: tech (tech@hornady.com)
Medium risk You may not know this sender.Mark as safe|Mark as junk
Sent: Wed 9/23/09 8:51 AM
To: bench_d@msn.com
Tumbling the loaded rounds can remove the coating on the powder in the
case and change the burn rate of the powder. Making the round possibly
too high of pressure.
-----Original Message-----
From: bench_d@msn.com [mailto:bench_d@msn.com]
Sent: Tuesday, September 22, 2009 6:39 PM
To: tech
Subject: Technical Inquiries
***WEB REQUEST***
Subject: Technical Inquiries
DAB
Well here it is From Hornady AND THEY DO MAKE AMMUNITION.
Waiting for a reply from Ramshot.
DAB
cornstalker
Active member
Quote:Well here it is From Hornady AND THEY DO MAKE AMMUNITION.
Yeah, but what do they know?
(Sorry, couldn't help it
)
Yeah, but what do they know?
(Sorry, couldn't help it
Here is my concern with this whole debate. We have been told by industry reps NOT to do a specific thing and they give a potential result if you go ahead and do this. In this case we're talking about tumbeling loaded rounds. In other cases I read on this and ALL the other reloading sites I frequent that guys regularly exceed maximum loads listed in the manuals even though every one gives a very specific warning; "DO NOT EXCEED MAXIMUM LOADS LISED" Many have even stated that they do it all the time and nothing has happened to them. And I'm not talking just a few 10ths of a grain over max, some guys are way over. Even my own brother used to say that guns were proof tested to more than 10% over max loads listed. Here's my BIG beef. When someone blatantly ignores warnings given by people who spend their lives testing and researching these product just to keep us safe, you aren't putting just your safety on the line, you're putting the safety of your hunting companions at risk, family members and even strangers at the gun range where you shoot. I think it's a selfish and inconsiderate thing to do. It makes me sad that I won't shoot or hunt with my brother any more because of his reloading practices.
Ducksoup,
Perhaps to "ease" your mind a little, or perhaps to just discuss the topic...
To simply assume that a firearm is OK with loads loaded above maximum listed loads is a bad idea. I've personally seen good quality rifles (one Ruger 77 in 7mm mag comes to mind) that wouldn't handle anything over about a medium load with the powder/bullets we were loading. In contrast, my own rifle (same cartridge) will handle max loads without a problem.
Data from various loading manuals usually varies as well, depending on the results they get from their test barrels.
So, loading manuals are a good guideline for loading data, but they can't tell anyone what the maximum load is for any particular rifle. They're a great reference to go by, but actual results will depend on the firearm. Even rifles of the same make and model can vary.
Fortunately, there are signs to watch for that will guide a knowledgeable handloader to know when (s)he's reaching the max load for his/her firearm. These are signs that EVERY handloader should watch for, no matter what the book says "may be" max load.
And, as long as a handloader is careful and knows what (s)he's doing, it is possible to safely load ammo that's above "book" max in some rifles. Again, it's not something that should be attempted blindly, or based on an assumption of "strength" of a firearm.
SAAMI (Sporting Arms & Ammunition Manufacturer's Institute) spec's are generally formed around the weakest firearms chambered for any particular firearm. Good examples of this are the old 45/70, .45 Colt, and even the newer .32 H&R mag. Load data for these are generally found with low pressures in mind, because a lot of older firearms won't handle high pressures (in the case of the .32 mag, it's because of the weak break-top revolvers made by H&R that the cartridge was designed for). Even so, in modern firearms they can each be "pushed" quite a bit by those who know what they're doing. Some loading manuals recognise this, and include data for newer/stronger firearms, but others don't. Even when they do, the loads should be approached with an aire of caution, just as any max load should (book or actual).
But, all these things are done with a known powder type, and experimentation can be gradual, deliberate, and the results checked to some degree.
In the case of tumbling loaded cartridges, it's the unknoiwn that might cause problems. If powders get altered by tumbling, then we're no longer dealing with a known substance, and results may become unpredictable.
And THAT's scary to me.
Daryl
Perhaps to "ease" your mind a little, or perhaps to just discuss the topic...
To simply assume that a firearm is OK with loads loaded above maximum listed loads is a bad idea. I've personally seen good quality rifles (one Ruger 77 in 7mm mag comes to mind) that wouldn't handle anything over about a medium load with the powder/bullets we were loading. In contrast, my own rifle (same cartridge) will handle max loads without a problem.
Data from various loading manuals usually varies as well, depending on the results they get from their test barrels.
So, loading manuals are a good guideline for loading data, but they can't tell anyone what the maximum load is for any particular rifle. They're a great reference to go by, but actual results will depend on the firearm. Even rifles of the same make and model can vary.
Fortunately, there are signs to watch for that will guide a knowledgeable handloader to know when (s)he's reaching the max load for his/her firearm. These are signs that EVERY handloader should watch for, no matter what the book says "may be" max load.
And, as long as a handloader is careful and knows what (s)he's doing, it is possible to safely load ammo that's above "book" max in some rifles. Again, it's not something that should be attempted blindly, or based on an assumption of "strength" of a firearm.
SAAMI (Sporting Arms & Ammunition Manufacturer's Institute) spec's are generally formed around the weakest firearms chambered for any particular firearm. Good examples of this are the old 45/70, .45 Colt, and even the newer .32 H&R mag. Load data for these are generally found with low pressures in mind, because a lot of older firearms won't handle high pressures (in the case of the .32 mag, it's because of the weak break-top revolvers made by H&R that the cartridge was designed for). Even so, in modern firearms they can each be "pushed" quite a bit by those who know what they're doing. Some loading manuals recognise this, and include data for newer/stronger firearms, but others don't. Even when they do, the loads should be approached with an aire of caution, just as any max load should (book or actual).
But, all these things are done with a known powder type, and experimentation can be gradual, deliberate, and the results checked to some degree.
In the case of tumbling loaded cartridges, it's the unknoiwn that might cause problems. If powders get altered by tumbling, then we're no longer dealing with a known substance, and results may become unpredictable.
And THAT's scary to me.
Daryl
cornstalker
Active member
As promised, here is the response from Alliant powder.
I am underwhelmed, but at least it is honest.
(I asked them if cleaning loaded ammo in a vibratory case cleaner would change the burn rate of the powder.)
I do not know. However, we are not in favor of cleaning loaded ammo.
This practice makes us a bit uneasy from a safety standpoint. Thanks
for your note and have a nice day.
Ben Amonette
Consumer Service Manager
Alliant Powder Company
I am underwhelmed, but at least it is honest.
(I asked them if cleaning loaded ammo in a vibratory case cleaner would change the burn rate of the powder.)
I do not know. However, we are not in favor of cleaning loaded ammo.
This practice makes us a bit uneasy from a safety standpoint. Thanks
for your note and have a nice day.
Ben Amonette
Consumer Service Manager
Alliant Powder Company
JB...you are dead on. I learned a long time ago that if there is ANY chance someone in the forum MIGHT step up and start a pizzing contest...they will. Wonder how many new, potential members or might-want-to-be members have seen us treat others this way, and decide they don't want to participate???