Longer Barrel?

G

greengt88

Well-known member
Went out calling this past Saturday night…my setup is a 16” Ballistic Advantage .223 Wilde 1:9 shooting 55gr Hornady V-Max factory ammo…I found it struggled to get accurate hits past 250yds. I’m using an InfiRay Geni GL35 Thermal…there was some wind…10-20mph gusts at some points.
Wondering how much a longer barrel will offer for less drop and drift?
Setup is very accurate at the range on paper.
Would I do better to get a .204 Ruger barrel? And if so what length and twist would I want for 40gr V-Max?
I seem to have no problem to right about 200yds currently, but beyond that getting some misses..
We had several shot opportunities in the 350-400yd range as well and I just passed on those.
Any advice or insight appreciated

I do have an 18” 6.5 Grendel that does well with the new 100gr ELD-VT…we shoot mostly fox with some coyotes in the 40-50lb range.
 
Have you range tested out longer ranges to get your real world drop table? Or are you just winging it?

Youll gain probably 100, maybe 150fps going from 16-20” barrel. So whatever that does in your ballistics calc. Probably about an inch difference at 300vs where it shoots now.

Wind pushes 55gr vmax 223 quite a bit, a 20mph cross wind is moving it 15” at 250yd. 24” at 300yd
 
My club only has out to 200yds, and I have it about 3in high currently
Our shots are typically in the 200-400yd range.
I guess I’m wondering if I should be looking at a different cartridge better suited to the 200-400 range with less drift and drop…basically I want to be holding over less.
 
greengt88 said:
My club only has out to 200yds, and I have it about 3in high currently
Our shots are typically in the 200-400yd range.
I guess I’m wondering if I should be looking at a different cartridge better suited to the 200-400 range with less drift and drop…basically I want to be holding over less.
Click to expand...
The point blank zero has no hold over to X distance, it's a good tool. might want to watch a you tube on it.
 
Any faster bullet with better BC will have less wind and drop. We could list 20 calibers to do it. But the 22-250 you suggested would help. Or 243win. Or 22arc, or 6arc, or 22 creed, or 6 creed. You would have to look at drop charts for each one and see what does what you want.

If you want to stick with your AR and get a new upper, 22arc or 6arc would be your best common available cartridge. 204 ruger doesnt buck wind good enough past 200yd for coyotes in open range imo.
 
Thermals are not precision sighting solutions per se. Yes, long range hits can be made I've done it many times myself.

I suspect your missed shots are a culmination of several factors and not just one... including DOPE, wind, range estimation, size and movement of the available target, and the sighting capabilities of a thermal sight. I don't think you're missing dur to one factor.

Yes, wind will push a 55gr .224 bullet around pretty good... but I doubt you're misses all involve a full-value 20 mph wind no?

A few extra inches isn't going to produce significant improvements to 300 yards. A heavier bullet probably will.

Just my thoughts...
 
Some good information here in these responses…precisely what I was hoping to hear.
I’m shooting off a Fat Boy Elevate 2 Section with Levitate head, so platform is rock solid.
So,e of the problem is judging distance for sure…looking in to a new thermal with LRF.
I’ve never been to several of the properties so hard to judge distance , especially in the dark.
The other factor in inexperience shooting distance with the thermal at night.

I would like to stick to the AR Platform. I like the fast follow up shot ability. We had 3 sets that produced doubles, so like the semi-auto for that as well.
I do have a Savage 11 22-250 that I could use. But would need to attach an ARCA plate to it.
Being a Savage that could also be easily rebarreled.

Lots to think about!
 
when the wind is 10-20 I stay home or in the truck, OR asleep be it in my bed or tent ;) I recently fired my long time, long and painstakingly developed 223 load. its a stiff charge of benchmark pushing a 50 grain blitzking. it runs 3350 fps from my 20 inch 223, it loses 300 fps from my 16 inch thermal AR 15!!! honestly I am pretty sick of the 223 generally. way too many followup shots and finishers, and lost animals. (oh for the crowd that killed 2 coyotes with your 223 you haven't shot enough to know shit from shinola) I have killed 150 ish coyotes with a 223 ar.

if I am running a lamping rig I think I am wanting some horsepower. 243 bolt gun is probably a good way to go.
 
steve garrett said:
when the wind is 10-20 I stay home or in the truck, OR asleep be it in my bed or tent ;) I recently fired my long time, long and painstakingly developed 223 load. its a stiff charge of benchmark pushing a 50 grain blitzking. it runs 3350 fps from my 20 inch 223, it loses 300 fps from my 16 inch thermal AR 15!!! honestly I am pretty sick of the 223 generally. way too many followup shots and finishers, and lost animals. (oh for the crowd that killed 2 coyotes with your 223 you haven't shot enough to know shit from shinola) I have killed 150 ish coyotes with a 223 ar.

if I am running a lamping rig I think I am wanting some horsepower. 243 bolt gun is probably a good way to go.
Click to expand...
My cousin had to do some follow ups with his 6.5 Creed for me. We lost one that I hit and rolled it over and then it crawled down a den. So that’s another consideration. I’m not super concerned with pelt damage. I have a huge red fox mounted so no need for another. Most of the places we are hunting is farmers or Amish and they just want the predators gone.
I personally have never seen a coyote, let alone shot one..95% fox around here in PA..my cousin has gotten a few but none while I’ve been along.
I just want fas, flat..minimal hold over or guess work, and ability to anchor reliably from 200-400+ yards.
 
greengt88 said:
I would like to stick to the AR Platform. I like the fast follow up shot ability.

Lots to think about!
Click to expand...

There are a couple good things about sticking with the AR besides fast follow up shots.

First off, AR parts prices are in the toilet which means you can build another upper quite affordably. Second, you have multiple cartridge choice to choose from that will give you better terminal performance at distance. Those include commercial offerings such as the 22 ARC, 6mm ARC, 6.5 Grendel, and the 6.8 SPC.

Not to start a "this cartridge is better than that" debate, but any of the above are a terminal performance improvement of the .223 Rem. I have all the above, including some wildcats like the 6mmx45 and .30HRT/TAC 30, and have killed hogs, coyotes, and deer very effectively. Only potential downside is ammo costs if you don't reload.

Now, if you like the .243 Win., perhaps you can do like I did, build out an AR10... I used Rock River's 20" barrel and Aero M5 parts. I've yet to kill anything but it shoots very well.

 
Bowhntr6pt said:
There are a couple good things about sticking with the AR besides fast follow up shots.

First off, AR parts prices are in the toilet which means you can build another upper quite affordably. Second, you have multiple cartridge choice to choose from that will give you better terminal performance at distance. Those include commercial offerings such as the 22 ARC, 6mm ARC, 6.5 Grendel, and the 6.8 SPC.

Not to start a "this cartridge is better than that" debate, but any of the above are a terminal performance improvement of the .223 Rem. I have all the above, including some wildcats like the 6mmx45 and .30HRT/TAC 30, and have killed hogs, coyotes, and deer very effectively. Only potential downside is ammo costs if you don't reload.

Now, if you like the .243 Win., perhaps you can do like I did, build out an AR10... I used Rock River's 20" barrel and Aero M5 parts. I've yet to kill anything but it shoots very well.

Click to expand...
In my head 243 was honestly my 1st choice if I was going to go with another rifle…then I thought about just swapping out the barrel, or getting an upper.
I think the 58-75gr bullet range in 243 would def do the trick. But was unsure if something else would be better for hold over. Or less hold over.
I don’t current;y have an AR10, and have been wanting to do one in 6.5 Creed anyhow. So that might be a great choice actually.
 
popper43 said:
That scope is a 384, probably about it's max use @ 250. As you have a decent tripod setup, maybe 243 ish.
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This is the 1st thermal I’ve ever had…would you have any recommendations for something better suited?
My budget is around $2000, more if I can sell current scope.
Would want LRF function…the new DNT Thermnight series or Hydra look good from what I’ve seen.

Is 384 limited to around the 250yd mark, or is it the magnification capability or overall clarity the limiting factor?
 
3" high at 100 yards, with a typical 2.5 " above bore thermal sight will be a problem. You will need to confirm poi at 200 250 300 325 350 375 and 400 yards. With a 53 gr superformance vmax a true 200 zero would put the 300 poi about 5" low.
If you are 3" high at 100 with a sight 2.5" above center of bore, all bullet poi will be high out to about 325 yards. About 4.5 " high at 200 yards, a miss on fox. Edge wound on coyote.
 
I used to own a Rock River Arms .223 Wylde in a 16" bull barrel that was extremely accurate. I had it sighted in, "dead on" at 200 yards. However, I had 50% losses with that cartridge, no matter of shot placement. :cautious:(n)
I hit this one 3x and I had to blood trail it to the edge of the woods. :mad:
RRA Coyote 3.jpg


I sold it and purchased a Savage Predator, in .243 and never lost a single coyote. :cool: I reloaded a 75 gr. Hornady V-Max at 3300 fps, sighted it in at 200 yards and went hunting. Nothing but "bang flop" shots with it.
Savage 243.jpg
 
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