M700 and 221fb ejection

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getfoxy

New member
First let me say this is my 2nd m700 that I have owned in 221 fireball and was very aware of the ejection issues firsthand. Ok to the question.


This may be simple for some of you guys but has me perplexed. So the 700 221s are notorious for flipping the cases backwards into the port instead of kicking them out. If the case is loaded it does not do this. Just running loaded rounds through the chamber and back out results in perfect ejection. But once you fire it that is when the flipping over backwards begins. Why is this? Why wouldn't it do it all the time and is there any modifications a gunsmith could do to aid in better ejection?
 
I have a 700 cambered in 300 Blackout and was having the same issue. Sent it to the gunsmith for an m-16 extractor and problem solved.
 
The shorter fired case clears the side of the action port sooner than a loaded round does and you can get the backward flipping of the case as a result.

You might try carefully clipping the ejector spring a twist at a time. If you go too far with the surgery, the ejector won't have enough "umph" left to eject the case at all. Also, maybe try cycling the bolt a bit more brisk/faster when you extract and eject the fired case.

Remington moved the ejector location on 221 FB bolts to cure this problem on later built 221 FB rifles, but some people have clipped the ejector spring and cured the problem on earlier rifles.

I have Sako rifles and others with Sako or M-16 style extractors and they work fine. Just know that you're giving up some action strength design features against a blown cartridge with an extractor cut in the bolt face.
 
That was the first thing I tried, if I run the bolt hard it will sometimes kick it out. It's really about 60/40 with 60% of the time it still staying in the port. I have kinda gotten in the habit of just throwing the bolt backand rolling the rifle to the side. Which works but makes finding brass harder.

If I do the Sako extractor route, explain the action strength I'd be giving up?
 
Originally Posted By: getfoxyIf I do the Sako extractor route, explain the action strength I'd be giving up?


Ever heard of "three rings of steel"? After the modification, you only have two and three-quarters rings of steel
laugh.gif
.

Wonder why Rem. didn't do them all with the different ejector location. Both that I had, were the real earliest ones - Classic's (forget the year, 2002 maybe?), and they had the correct (different) ejector location. So Rem. obviously knew about how to do it long before the other models came around.

I kept one as a FB and had the other rebarreled as a Mach IV before I even shot it. 'smith screwed up the factory extractor groove squaring the bolt face. Fought it for a few years then finally had a Sako installed.

Both rifles ejected just fine though, with the differently clocked ejector.

- DAA
 
Yea I'm familiar with three rings of steel lol. Pretty sure you are correct with the 221 classic being 2002. I never had a classic. I had the LS and now the LVSF.



So with the action strength I'd be giving up, would you fellas reccomend doing the sako extractor or just keep it as is?
 
Originally Posted By: getfoxySo with the action strength I'd be giving up, would you fellas reccomend doing the sako extractor or just keep it as is?

Have a Sako put in it and don't worry about it...
 
I have a Sako extractor on a 6BR for the same reasons. Really short empty, especially compared to a loaded round. It works rather well on extraction.

Both Gre-Tan and LRI can hook it up well for $175.
 
As I stated, I own numerous rifles with the types of extractor you're considering. All I was saying is that the design Remington built into their rifles to vent gases (the 3 rings of steel) will be compromised by the 1/4 ring of steel that is now missing. And in the area of this maybe insignificant 1/4 ring is where the gases will exit the action likely along with pieces of the extractor/ejector.

It will probably never happen, but it's worth understanding. I definitely don't blink when I shoot one of my Sako and similar rifles, but it is a design weakness worth understanding when compared with other rifle action designs.
 
Originally Posted By: Winny FanThe shorter fired case clears the side of the action port sooner than a loaded round does and you can get the backward flipping of the case as a result.

This^^^^^^ the weight of the bullet doesn't have anything to do with it, the short case ejects before it clears the ejection port.

As much as I like 700's the 221 sized cases have always been problematic. Even the newer bolts with the relocated ejectors aren't 100% reliable.

I'm down to four bolt action rifles, three 700's and one CZ. Guess which one is chambered for a Fireball cartridge....
 
Originally Posted By: RePete
Winny Fan said:
The shorter fired case clears the side of the action port sooner than a loaded round does and you can get the backward flipping of the case as a result. [/quote

I'm down to four bolt action rifles, three 700's and one CZ. Guess which one is chambered for a Fireball cartridge....


If I had not gotten such a great deal as a package I would not have bought this 700. I knew going in what I was in for but I pretty much stole it. On top of that the darn thing just shoots too well to get rid of. I am thinking about just picking up another 527 in 221. And making this one a range gun/back up loaner rifle.
Click to expand...
 
Another WAG but I don't think the fireball will generate enough pressure to worry about if you go the Sako extractor route. Sako and Tikka both use them, they aren't worried.
 
Originally Posted By: pyscodogAnother WAG but I don't think the fireball will generate enough pressure to worry about if you go the Sako extractor route. Sako and Tikka both use them, they aren't worried.

That is a WAG. IIRC, the SAAMI spec for the 221 FB cartridge is ~46K, but I don't remember if that is SAAMI (PSI) or CUP pressure units. Its possible to blow up any cartridge case when a loading mistake is made.

No designer of rifle actions worry abut their design. Pre-64 Win Model 70 action are coned breeched which leaves the rear of the cartridge case exposed far more than other action designs do, but it didn't keep Winchester from making a bunch of rifles. One design change in the 1964 and later rifles was a flat breech to give additional cartridge case support. Rifles in both designs have been destroyed when a cartridge case failed.

Case failure is what destroys any rifle action. How the action is designed determines how each individual manufacturer hopes to handle at least part of the escaping pressure.
 
Originally Posted By: pyscodogAnother WAG but I don't think the fireball will generate enough pressure to worry about...

You should give up WAG's... That's one of the more ignorant, uninformed, just plain stupid things I've read here lately. And that is saying something!

- DAA
 
I didn't say you can't blow it up. But if loaded with CORRECT loads it shouldn't happen. But your smart, I'm dumb so what does it matter. He's got all you Einsteins to lead him .
 
IIRC the OP was asking about ejection problems not reloading. So, assuming he is reloading safe loads in his Remington 700, 221 Fireball, pressure should not be a problem using a Sako extractor. There is that better?
 
Oh, my. Sorry I caused you to get your daubers pinched.

Yes, the thread was originally about ejection problems, but altering a factory rifle can also cause other unseen issues to arise. I have no idea how the OP might load his rifles so I added the thought as just something to consider.

Gees. Man up, Dude. Posting on the internet isn't life and death either way.
 


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