Max load vs. max load

pdhunter

pdhunter

New member
Just looking for your thoughts on this.
Hornady list the max 22-250 load with 55 gr. vmax as 34.6 gr.
of varget.
A couple of other sources list the max as 36.5.
I use 1 grain over Horady's max with no signs of pressure and 3 shot clover leaf groups at 100 yds.
I understand the legal hoop la when they publish their books
but aren't all loading sources under the same laws as far as max loads go? I just wonder if some manufacturers are overly
cautious.
 
Hornady is know for having their max load on the light side. I've called them for load data and it has always been less then other sources. This was only on a couple loads but still I wouldn't be surprised at all if it goes for a good part of them.
 
There are to many variables, in no particular order you did not mention:
primer used
seating depth
powder lot number
temperature
case used
neck tension
the exact reamer used for the chamber
how long the throat is
various other thing I am not immediatly thinking of.

Every gun has its own max, I use a book max as a way to know where I will start (~10% below it) but not for much else.
 
You have to look at the loading manuals as a starting guide.

I too agree about Hornady's data. Even told them I think they have their wives and mothers working up the data. Eventually someone is going to sue them for squib loads. I would never buy another loading manual from Hornady. In my opinion they shouldn't even be in business. At 34 gr the 55 gr bullet is probably moving at 3100 fps by my calculations.

You're doing right by increasing over the max but watching for pressure signs. As long as you do that you'll be alright.

My experience was with the Sierra 52 gr match bullet. Almost all my loading manuals showed a max of 36.5 gr for Varget. And I admit that load was accurate in my gun. However, before giving that load my final approval I decided to run it over the chrono. Velocity was 3420 fps, that's .223 velocity for crying out loud! The load manuals showed 3700 fps for it.

I had one other load book, Lyman that showed the charge at 38.0 gr for the 52 gr bullet. So I worked up to that and found it more accurate then the 36.5 gr load and velocity was 3700 fps, right where it should be.

I've always had this problem with Varget, even in the .308 I've been loading for years. No idea where these reloading companies are getting their powder but it's much faster burning then mine according to their records.

As stated above just use that max charge as a reference for starting.
 
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Joe, you preach it!

Reloading manuals are only a guide for what they found max using their barrel and their components....that is why the variation from book to book and may also explain why you need to exercise caution with your own rifle and lot# of powder.
 
ackleyman
"Reloading manuals are only a guide for what they found max using their barrel and their components....that is why the variation from book to book and may also explain why you need to exercise caution with your own rifle and lot# of powder."
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Well said ackleyman.

DAB
 
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I've come to the conclusion that the powder manufacturers seem to have more accurate data then the bullet companies. I looked something up last week for Alliant powder and saw their site was much higher then a few loading manuals I have.

Never take it that is the max charge in a loading manual, you could be wrong either way. Trial is about the only way to tell unless you have pressure gauges which are used by SAAMI.
 
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The folks at Hornady prefer to err on the safe side. Cant blame them. Every rifle is different and there are a lot of less than cautious folks out there. For the folks claiming they cant match published muzzle velocities, keep in mind that there can be significant variation in performance characteristics between barrels from the same manufacturer. This isnt quite rocket science but we are still launching projectiles with a lot of variables involved.
 
I can't ever remember having a max load in MY gun that was under ANY published MAX load. That said, I never start at published max's, and always work up cautiously from about 2 grains less than max to find out where MY max is for a given powder/bullet/primer combo.
 
I've noticed just about all of the major players load manuals are on the light side anymore.

Back when I started reloading loads were much hotter. Usually around max was the max, anything over and I'd get pressure signs.

The last 10 years or so I've noticed just about all manuals are pretty far under max. I only noticed because I now have a chronograph. I don't mind being a little under what the book shows but I'm seeing big differences.

What makes it bad is there are so many new powders. With new powders you can't go back to an old book for answers. So you work up looking for pressure signs, that's all you can do.
 
Maximum load in Remington brass is different from Winchester brass or some other brand. Same for primers. Your pet maximum load may be way hot when it gets to be 100 degrees.
 
Pressures also spike at temps below MINUS 25*F and ABOVE 125*F.

Guys that let their ammo sit in the sun and get warm to the touch are heading for a hard to open bolt when the round is fired...first thing most cry is TEMP SENSITIVE POWDER! Jeez........Reloading manuals have to allow for dudes like this.

Also, ever wonder what happens to the internals on a barrel where the bore got wet on the last hunt, last year and sits in the closet rusting? The same ammo that was safe may exibit pressure signs, and it will not take many rounds where copper build up will become excessive...pressure will spike from that also. I had an experience with my neighbor that let his barrel rust on is 6.5 x 55 to the point to where minimum loads would freeze up the bolt from copper fouling from rust.

Lot # of powder can vary a lot....BEWARE! Buying powder by the One pound cans can leade to a change in pressures if you shoot the same load without experimentation....some powder types are worse than others, and some leade give about uniform results. I have had some wild swings in R#22.
 
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You have to use common sense. The loading manuals are all conservative. When I am working up a load, I reference the manuals... maybe compare loads between them, settle on a conservative starting load and start working up the load. Pay special attention for pressure signs and stop when you start to see them. No big deal. Of course, if you are working with a temperature sensitive powder, you must take that into consideration when deciding what is max for your rifle. Buy the powder you plan to use in bulk and from the same lot. When it's been used up, start over with load development.

You could fill a 22-250 case with Varget, leaving just enough room to seat the bullet, fire the round and your rifle won't explode like a hand grenade. Will it be a hot load? Most likely yes. Would it hurt anything? It might but probably not. You may have a sticky bolt and flattened primer....but that would depend on the components you use and your particular rifle.

I commonly load +2 grains over listed max in my .308 with no pressure signs. But the components I use are proven and the load is worked up carefully. If something changes with regard to components (including cases), I start over with load development. It's all common sense. The loading manuals are a guide not law.
 
Swandog:

Unless you have pressure testing equipment, you can only speculate that "Nosler's manuals are on the light side of MAX loads too".

In other words, you don't really [likely]know.
 
Originally Posted By: BuckeyeSpecialAs stated above just use that max charge as a reference for starting.


Quote:joed: This is very poor advice, in case someone decides to use it.

I've been misunderstood. What I'm saying is the max charge is a reference only when working up a load, it may or may not be the maximum. As such it is only a reference until it is known. The actual max charge may be a few grains higher or a few grains lower then the max reference in the manual.

 
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