Mini-14 Won't Shoot (Update w/photos 26AUG2010)

What a bummer. $ 700 and it wont group. Id think about having it checked again by another Smith just in case. With that new barrel Id think it should be way better than that. I left my Mini alone except for a home made Barrel Strut. Now I just accept it for what it is. Good luck. Hope you find the cure.
 
The older series mini with the pencil barrel are the ones that shot crappy.

I have two of the newer 580 series and can shoot 1-2 inch all the time with iron sights.
I also had a mini target that shot .9-1.5 all the time with a scope on it.

I reloaded my own and was using 55gr. dogtown bullets from Midway.

Say what you want, but they never jam and and will feed anything you stick in them and are so easy to clean vs and AR. I have AR's and like them as well.
 
I thought I was clear but I guess some confusion is present. I took my old mini-14 that had a regular thin barrel on it and put a Shilen Bull barrel on it, an ASI adjustable gas block, a buffer, and some bolt parts put on.

The purpose of doing the work to it was to take a weapon that is known to not shoot well and make it shoot well. Wanted to use it as fast handling coyote brush gun.

As the barrel heats up it shoots worse. I have been told its barrel harmonics and how the barrel is supported. Free floating a mini makes it shoot very poorly. The gunsmith I used suggested I drop it back off but unsure if thats the way to go. Might be better off either selling it or sending out to a mini-14 gunsmith. But by the time it is all said and done this would be the most expensive mini ever.

Wanted to post a photo but need to figure how 1st
 
I have to stick up for the Mini, at least a bit. What series is it? Last year I bought a 580 series and it shoots 2 inch groups with a cool barrel. All I did was smooth out the trigger and install buffers. I know the older pencil barrel models had a problem with barrel whip, but the newer models are better. That being said, it is not an AR. I simply cannot just point the muzzle down range, close my eyes, and pull the trigger rapidly to obtain MOA groups. I have to put some effort into it. LOL.
 
Well the 62gr rounds I ordered and shot tody look like they did the best. I fired 5 shots of each type of new shells I received at 100yds. I let it cool after each 5 round shot and lightly swabbed the barrel.

Then tonight I did it again with the 62gr rounds and they were all over the place and the 69gr came out best.

Mini-14

Not sure I have the image thing figured out yet.......
 
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nice looking mini, I always loved the wood hand guard. You might want to think about cheek weld, if your eye is moving behind the scope it doesn't do much for tiny little groups, your scope is mounted very high is there a reason for that?
 
Try loosening the gas block screws, then re-torqueing them to 35 in. lbs. with an even gap on both sides and see if that gets you anywhere. Is there any kind of a bedding job?
If the stock is putting pressure on the gas block, that's another possibility. I'd expect with that heavy barrel you should be able to get around 2 MOA.
Perfectunion has a big Mini 14 accurizing section with some good techniques.

Perfectunion
 
Being as your Mini still has the wood hand guard, was the Barrel turned back down to standard size? Or did they modify the handguard to accept a larger barrel?
 
I would remove the high scope mount and use a set of Ruger rings and maybe different scope. Mini's can be hard on scopes. Also try removing the gas bushing and install a solid plug to make it like a bolt action. I do this while testing loads. Then install a .040" or .050" bushing later.
 
I have been over on Perfectunion and they had lots of input like this sight that is a wealth of info.

I talked to the smith this am and I am dropping it back off tomorrow. He said on the phone that there is very little bedding that can be done on these. My plan is to drop it off and tell him nicely to call me when it shoots worth the money I've spent....am spending.

So frustrated over this.....plus the wife who doesn't know about the problems, from the start was saying "don't waste the money, just buy a good AR upper". She's an AR fan and her's shoots [beeep] well.
 
I sent the rifle off to another gunsmith. This one is in Idaho and came highly recommended for his work with Mini-14's. A retired gunsmith that lives near the guy that frequents the Perfect Union Forum spend time in the gunsmith shop doing his own private work forwarded a few things about my mini-14....these posting are listed below.

Originally Posted By: dkac2;602578I was over at Savagegunsmithing today and saw your rifle. The action was so loose it wiggled in the the stock. No rifle will shoot a decent group with the action loose in the stock and yours was the worst I've ever seen in a mini 14, it wiggled side to side about 1/8th of an inch with the top of the scope being the referance point.
The action has been bedded and is now tight as can be. It was glassed in like an M1a rifle is with just a couple of changes due to the difference in design of the action.
The barrel that you have on your rifle is the Shilen barrel that was made for the mini. It has the stock specs of the pencil barrel until right after the gas block, then turns into a bull barrel. It has been a problematic barrel.
I'm sure Scott will get it to shoot for you.
Scott is removing the barrel and cutting a new crown. The old crown was not horrible, but was not the best either. A good crown really helps with the accuracy. He said he was going to check the headspace and make sure that it was in spec. With an aftermarket barrel fitted, you never know if the barrel was headspaced correctly.
The screws holding the gas block togather had so much thread locker on them that they were basically wrecked. The threads in the gas block were OK.
Scott cleaned the threads in the gas block and shortened a new set of allen head screws to put back into the gas block. That way having allen head screws will make it easier to get the correct inch pounds of torque VS trying to get a good reading with screws that had regular slotted heads. The way the screws were, he would have never got a correct reading when tightening the screws.
As you can see, Scott is not overlooking anything and checking everything.
Who built the rifle for you in the first place? I saw that it has an ASI gas block.
I'll keep you updated.
Don't worry about getting ripped of money wise. Scott charges a fair rate for the work he does. He's one of those smiths who works on firearms because he loves them. While Scott is in the business to make money, it's not his primary motivotion. He could make far more money as a machinest or welder, he is an expert at both.

Best Regards, John K

Then I received this one yesterday

Originally Posted By: dkac2;603361Kag, I PMed you about your rifle.
I explained the problems with KAG's rifle to him in the PM. For the rest of you following this post, KAG had a gunsmith install one of the aftermarket Shilen bull barrels that were made to go on the older pencil barreled mini's. It's not a true bull barrel, it's a regular barrel until after the gas block where the barrel flairs out to a bull barrel.
Kag's mini has a couple of problems. One was the bedding. The action was really loose in the stock. Bedding the action took care of that problem.
The second problem is excessive headspace.
Ruger machines all of their barrels chambers just a little bit long then adjusts the headspace by taking metal off of the bolt lugs until the headspace is correct.
Since Ruger does not sell bolts, the Shilen barrel needs to be headspaced by cutting the shoulder of the barrel until the headspace is correct and then the gas bushing hole is milled in the correct place on the barrel and then the gas hole is drilled in the middle of the gas bushing hole.
The Shilen barrels come with the chamber already cut.
It appears that the gunsmith just screwed the barrel into the action without checking the headspace and then drilled the holes for the gas bushing/gas hole.
We put a 5.56 "GO" headspace guage in the barrel and started adding shims to check the headspace. The bolt was stripped of the extractor and ejector and we started with a .005" shim. The bolt closed easily on that shim. We kept adding shims. By the time we got to .015" worth of shims and the bolt still closed easily on the H.S. guage and shims, we knew the gun had a serious amount of excessive headspace (we knew it had a headspace problem long before we got to .015" worth of shims, but got tired of cutting shims. Looks like it's at least .020" or more).
Anyway, if you are going to have one of the Shilen bull barrels for the .574" barrrel model installed, be sure your gunsmith knows how to correctly install the Shilen barrel.
The Shilen barrel does not need to have a cut out for the extractor because the cone is cut larger all the way around so it will index correctly for the extractor in any position.
Scott will either fix the Shilen barrel or replace the barrel with a new one machined from a blank with the correct contour depending on what KAG wants to do.
Sorry for the bad news KAG
angry.gif
You might want to find out if the gunsmith that did this still has the original barrel from your mini. We could work with it and get your Mini to shoot well.
I'm thinking that the gunsmith who did this could break a ball bearing with a rubber hammer.

Best Regards, John K

I am so deep into into this mini that I almost have no choice but to push forward. If I need a new barrel made from a blank I am going to have him chamber it in 6x45 for me.
 
Well, good luck with your Mini. I was wondering if it was indeed a true Bull Barrel all the way, or just standard size up to the Gas Block. Hopefully the previous Smith will help you out with some of the costs that you are incurring. Keep us posted on the results.
 
I feel for you in this position but I tend to agree, you're at the point now that you may as well give it another try. I would let this latest gunsmith give it a try and if no success it would be hard but I'd have to give up.
I borrowed my in-laws mini to coyote hunt with and after many attempts to get it sighted in to what I would feel comfortable shooting with I returned it. It sounds like you had the major areas that were supposed to affect the accuracy addressed, just too bad it didn't come together.
I used to drool over my in-laws mini's until I actually got one out in the backyard and it was fun to shoot, but for what even Walmart charges, about $750 I believe, it has no place in my gun cabinet.
 
i almost tried to do an upgrade job on a mini once. glad i decided not to. i was debating the mini and the AR routes and ended up going the AR route. I would love to have a mini that could shoot but it just seems too exensive and the results vary so much that it's hard to justify the cost.

good luck. and i hope it ends up being a tack driver after all the headache.
 
Didnt anyone ever watch "THE A-TEAM",,,up until i shot a mini,,i thought they never hit anyone,ever cause they were all bad shots,,lol................X
 
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