Tim Neitzke
New member
Last I knew , fw707 and his pard shot mils, but I could be wrong. It does happen once in awhile...
MOA v/s Mils ????
- Thread starter coleridge
- Start date
cbass,
you just don't seem to get the point so I'm gonna splain it to you.
My post to Steve was kidding him about making the statement that anything was "best" for everybody. Did you see the little smiley face at the end of the post?
That meant I was kidding.
And do you know why I was kidding?
It's because I shoot mils in every scope I have set up for longe range shooting-not because mils is "best", it's just what I like.
You seemed to have missed that fact somewhere along the line and thought I was besmirching your preference for mils.
And why do you have a problem with a moderator saying what he thinks?
I was a member long before I was a moderator, and I'm not a moderator of this particular forum anyway. If a moderator of this forum thinks I'm out of line he will let me know it, just the same as any other member.
I hope that cleared things up for you.
If you pay more attention to the little smiley faces maybe you won't take umbrage and get your panties all wadded up as often!
you just don't seem to get the point so I'm gonna splain it to you.
My post to Steve was kidding him about making the statement that anything was "best" for everybody. Did you see the little smiley face at the end of the post?
That meant I was kidding.
And do you know why I was kidding?
It's because I shoot mils in every scope I have set up for longe range shooting-not because mils is "best", it's just what I like.
You seemed to have missed that fact somewhere along the line and thought I was besmirching your preference for mils.
And why do you have a problem with a moderator saying what he thinks?
I was a member long before I was a moderator, and I'm not a moderator of this particular forum anyway. If a moderator of this forum thinks I'm out of line he will let me know it, just the same as any other member.
I hope that cleared things up for you.
If you pay more attention to the little smiley faces maybe you won't take umbrage and get your panties all wadded up as often!
Predburner
New member
Points for using "Besmirch" in a sentence.......!!!!
coleridge
Active member
Originally Posted By: 204 ARDouble points for "umbrage"....!
Infinity points that he's from Kentucky and still uses those words
Didn't really create the thread to explain one better than the other because they are not. Both is a system of the same thing. Both at long distance make corrections WAY smaller than the group your shooting so it's really a wash as to what is better there to. It's a personal preference thing. Do the one you like...
I guess a lot of verbage was making it sound like I was saying MOA was better,I wasn't... Guess that was just left over from a point i was trying to make in the other thread that MOA was a more " fine" correction. (A lot of copy paste)
I have scopes with both and can use either. My partner uses MOA & that's what i use when we shoot together. I guess my preference is slightly to MOA because that's what i use most. That [beeep] sure dont make me a better shooter.
The only thing i will say is that a standard mil reticle is way to course to use much. Split those mils in half, and i can dig it...
Getting upset because someone says one is better than the other is a little silly. What are you going to think when i say your Maytag dryer is a piece of chit???
Infinity points that he's from Kentucky and still uses those words
Didn't really create the thread to explain one better than the other because they are not. Both is a system of the same thing. Both at long distance make corrections WAY smaller than the group your shooting so it's really a wash as to what is better there to. It's a personal preference thing. Do the one you like...
I guess a lot of verbage was making it sound like I was saying MOA was better,I wasn't... Guess that was just left over from a point i was trying to make in the other thread that MOA was a more " fine" correction. (A lot of copy paste)
I have scopes with both and can use either. My partner uses MOA & that's what i use when we shoot together. I guess my preference is slightly to MOA because that's what i use most. That [beeep] sure dont make me a better shooter.
The only thing i will say is that a standard mil reticle is way to course to use much. Split those mils in half, and i can dig it...
Getting upset because someone says one is better than the other is a little silly. What are you going to think when i say your Maytag dryer is a piece of chit???
Tim Neitzke
New member
Originally Posted By: coleridgeOriginally Posted By: 204 ARDouble points for "umbrage"....!
Infinity points that he's from Kentucky and still uses those words
I was gonna say something about that, I don't even know what the heck it means...
BUT.... It's still funny !
Infinity points that he's from Kentucky and still uses those words
I was gonna say something about that, I don't even know what the heck it means...
BUT.... It's still funny !
204 AR
Well-known member
Originally Posted By: Tim NeitzkeOriginally Posted By: coleridgeOriginally Posted By: 204 ARDouble points for "umbrage"....!
Infinity points that he's from Kentucky and still uses those words
I was gonna say something about that, I don't even know what the heck it means...
BUT.... It's still funny !
I don't know either...but I heard Bill O'Rielly say it once so it must be a good word!
As far as which system, I'm just getting into it and have some MOA and 1 Mil, I always realized 1/4 moa is a finer adjustment but I really like my mil/mil scope. Has hash marks every 1/2 mil and 1/10 mil adjustments on the turret. I think it's a good system.
Infinity points that he's from Kentucky and still uses those words
I was gonna say something about that, I don't even know what the heck it means...
BUT.... It's still funny !
I don't know either...but I heard Bill O'Rielly say it once so it must be a good word!
As far as which system, I'm just getting into it and have some MOA and 1 Mil, I always realized 1/4 moa is a finer adjustment but I really like my mil/mil scope. Has hash marks every 1/2 mil and 1/10 mil adjustments on the turret. I think it's a good system.
xphunter
Well-known member
To the OP: Good explanation.
I use MIL based scopes some, but I prefer MOA.
Most of my scopes are 1/4 MOA clicks, but the ones I use for 1000 yard F-Class are 1/8 MOA clicks since it is score game and the X-Ring at 1K is 5".
A 1/4 MOA adjustment will move approx 2.5" at 1K while a 1/8 MOA set-up 1.25"
MOA and MIL, just different ways of skinning the cat in most shooting.
I use MIL based scopes some, but I prefer MOA.
Most of my scopes are 1/4 MOA clicks, but the ones I use for 1000 yard F-Class are 1/8 MOA clicks since it is score game and the X-Ring at 1K is 5".
A 1/4 MOA adjustment will move approx 2.5" at 1K while a 1/8 MOA set-up 1.25"
MOA and MIL, just different ways of skinning the cat in most shooting.
rudymontana
New member
I'm sure Tugboater's comment was just a typo. Probably meant to spell Touché ,just hit the D instead
of the T.
of the T.
Coyotehunter_
New member
Originally Posted By: xphunterTo the OP: Good explanation.
I use MIL based scopes some, but I prefer MOA.
Most of my scopes are 1/4 MOA clicks, but the ones I use for 1000 yard F-Class are 1/8 MOA clicks since it is score game and the X-Ring at 1K is 5".
A 1/4 MOA adjustment will move approx 2.5" at 1K while a 1/8 MOA set-up 1.25"
MOA and MIL, just different ways of skinning the cat in most shooting.
If you are shooting longer ranges then the greater resolution or sensitivity of the 1/8 click MOA scope would be nice to have. I wont' say Precision as that's not really the definition of "Precision". I'm a student of Quality Control and to me Accuracy and Precision have different Definitions so I try to not use them indiscriminately.
So I like to use the term "Resolution" instead of Precision. Yea I'm anal like that. Sorry if I offend anyone. But my experience has been in Science and microscopy and analytical Chemical analysis as well as Pre Veterinary Medicine. Although I still have to look up Veterinary in order to spell is correctly.
Now that I explained why I use the word "Resolution" I also would like to say that it's easier to use the Metric (Base 10) system in calculations than to use the old English System where the base numbers vary from 4 to 12 to 36 etc. IE 12" in a foot. 3 ft in a yard and x number of yards in a mile. Where as there are always ten units in the metric system used to make up the next type of unit. 10mm in a cm and 100 cm in a meter and 1000 meters in a Kilometer. All are based on ten. Strange that we also have ten fingers if you count the two thumbs on both hands.
I would like to get a Front Focal Plane scope that is calibrated in mils and tenth's of a mill and try to use it to determine distances to the target as well as to figure out corrections to the bullet's path. But I'm limited to a gun range that only has a 200 yard range and nothing longer. I'd have to join a shooting range that has the 500 yard range and they are not taking new members at this time. They are all full right now.
I use MIL based scopes some, but I prefer MOA.
Most of my scopes are 1/4 MOA clicks, but the ones I use for 1000 yard F-Class are 1/8 MOA clicks since it is score game and the X-Ring at 1K is 5".
A 1/4 MOA adjustment will move approx 2.5" at 1K while a 1/8 MOA set-up 1.25"
MOA and MIL, just different ways of skinning the cat in most shooting.
If you are shooting longer ranges then the greater resolution or sensitivity of the 1/8 click MOA scope would be nice to have. I wont' say Precision as that's not really the definition of "Precision". I'm a student of Quality Control and to me Accuracy and Precision have different Definitions so I try to not use them indiscriminately.
So I like to use the term "Resolution" instead of Precision. Yea I'm anal like that. Sorry if I offend anyone. But my experience has been in Science and microscopy and analytical Chemical analysis as well as Pre Veterinary Medicine. Although I still have to look up Veterinary in order to spell is correctly.
Now that I explained why I use the word "Resolution" I also would like to say that it's easier to use the Metric (Base 10) system in calculations than to use the old English System where the base numbers vary from 4 to 12 to 36 etc. IE 12" in a foot. 3 ft in a yard and x number of yards in a mile. Where as there are always ten units in the metric system used to make up the next type of unit. 10mm in a cm and 100 cm in a meter and 1000 meters in a Kilometer. All are based on ten. Strange that we also have ten fingers if you count the two thumbs on both hands.
I would like to get a Front Focal Plane scope that is calibrated in mils and tenth's of a mill and try to use it to determine distances to the target as well as to figure out corrections to the bullet's path. But I'm limited to a gun range that only has a 200 yard range and nothing longer. I'd have to join a shooting range that has the 500 yard range and they are not taking new members at this time. They are all full right now.
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Varminterror
New member
Originally Posted By: Coyotehunter_If you are shooting longer ranges then the greater resolution or sensitivity of the 1/8 click MOA scope would be nice to have. I wont' say Precision as that's not really the definition of "Precision". I'm a student of Quality Control and to me Accuracy and Precision have different Definitions so I try to not use them indiscriminately.
So I like to use the term "Resolution" instead of Precision.
Accuracy = measurement of truth relative to a desired goal
Precision = refinement of measurement
Resolution = degree of refinement or precision visible in measuring device
So in the comparison of 1/8MOA clicks vs. 1/4MOA clicks, the 1/8MOA is a MORE "PRECISE" INSTRUMENT.
So the mechanical adjustment of a 1/8MOA scope is a reflection of it's standard for PRECISION. RESOLUTION is largely irrelevant in this adjustment, since we have positive detent adjustments in scope turrets - the resolution - the visibility of the measureable increment - is fixed, either it's clicked to this notch or that notch, but there's no interval for adjustment between clicks. I suppose a guy can break it down into semantics that each detent position could have a slight amount of imperceptible slack, so these devices don't afford us the RESOLUTION to tell whether we're clicked to 1.118MOA or 1.130MOA, even though we're showing position in the 1.125MOA detent, but the PRECISION of adjustment is still 1/8MOA +/- that small variability for un-measured RESOLUTION.
So I like to use the term "Resolution" instead of Precision.
Accuracy = measurement of truth relative to a desired goal
Precision = refinement of measurement
Resolution = degree of refinement or precision visible in measuring device
So in the comparison of 1/8MOA clicks vs. 1/4MOA clicks, the 1/8MOA is a MORE "PRECISE" INSTRUMENT.
So the mechanical adjustment of a 1/8MOA scope is a reflection of it's standard for PRECISION. RESOLUTION is largely irrelevant in this adjustment, since we have positive detent adjustments in scope turrets - the resolution - the visibility of the measureable increment - is fixed, either it's clicked to this notch or that notch, but there's no interval for adjustment between clicks. I suppose a guy can break it down into semantics that each detent position could have a slight amount of imperceptible slack, so these devices don't afford us the RESOLUTION to tell whether we're clicked to 1.118MOA or 1.130MOA, even though we're showing position in the 1.125MOA detent, but the PRECISION of adjustment is still 1/8MOA +/- that small variability for un-measured RESOLUTION.
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Varminterror
New member
I like MOA for the greater PRECISION over MIL's, when I thought I could do something in tactical competitions, I liked having a Milling reticle with mil adjustments. The math is fast for me, even working in inches mentally, but with a MIL/MIL scope with a First Focal reticle, it's brainless.
coleridge
Active member
Originally Posted By: Varminterror
Accuracy = measurement of truth relative to a desired goal
Precision = refinement of measurement
Resolution = degree of refinement or precision visible in measuring device
So in the comparison of 1/8MOA clicks vs. 1/4MOA clicks, the 1/8MOA is a MORE "PRECISE" INSTRUMENT.
So the mechanical adjustment of a 1/8MOA scope is a reflection of it's standard for PRECISION. RESOLUTION is largely irrelevant in this adjustment, since we have positive detent adjustments in scope turrets - the resolution - the visibility of the measureable increment - is fixed, either it's clicked to this notch or that notch, but there's no interval for adjustment between clicks. I suppose a guy can break it down into semantics that each detent position could have a slight amount of imperceptible slack, so these devices don't afford us the RESOLUTION to tell whether we're clicked to 1.118MOA or 1.130MOA, even though we're showing position in the 1.125MOA detent, but the PRECISION of adjustment is still 1/8MOA +/- that small variability for un-measured RESOLUTION.
My thoughts exactly. I was going to write a VERY similar post but didn't because last time i corrected someone i got called a douche
Accuracy = measurement of truth relative to a desired goal
Precision = refinement of measurement
Resolution = degree of refinement or precision visible in measuring device
So in the comparison of 1/8MOA clicks vs. 1/4MOA clicks, the 1/8MOA is a MORE "PRECISE" INSTRUMENT.
So the mechanical adjustment of a 1/8MOA scope is a reflection of it's standard for PRECISION. RESOLUTION is largely irrelevant in this adjustment, since we have positive detent adjustments in scope turrets - the resolution - the visibility of the measureable increment - is fixed, either it's clicked to this notch or that notch, but there's no interval for adjustment between clicks. I suppose a guy can break it down into semantics that each detent position could have a slight amount of imperceptible slack, so these devices don't afford us the RESOLUTION to tell whether we're clicked to 1.118MOA or 1.130MOA, even though we're showing position in the 1.125MOA detent, but the PRECISION of adjustment is still 1/8MOA +/- that small variability for un-measured RESOLUTION.
My thoughts exactly. I was going to write a VERY similar post but didn't because last time i corrected someone i got called a douche