mountain lion in east TN?

Missouri has had two Mountain Lions found as road kill. Both by DNA were wild animals and not escaped/released pets. A couple of more have been video taped by crediable sources, once by a Conservation Agent. This cat was on a deer kill a mile as the crow flys from my deer hunting area in the National Forest. Several more have been photographed, a couple have been treed by hounds and pictures taken while the critter was in the tree. I saw a few pictures of one of these. A couple of guys were rabbit hunting and their beagles jumped the cat and it took treed nearly immediately. It went up in a little Osage Orange tree that was barely big enough to get it eight feet off the ground. The guys were lucky enough to get a couple of pictures and the cat got nervous and bailed out on them. Pretty incrediable stuff! A taxidermist had a fellow bring one in for mounting. He claimed it was killed "out west" and said he'd lost his tag. The taxidermist called the Conservation Agent who then investigated and eventually the guy admitted to killing it here in Missouri. I think this is the kind of evidence that leaves conclusive and absolute proof of an actual population of animals.

And yes, bobcats and coyotes, even bears do get occasionally killed by vehicles on the roadways. I know of two bobcats killed by vehicles here in this county last year. I see coyotes dead roadside often enough to not be unusually surprised. Obviously, the numbers aren't as high as deer, so there would be far less roadkill of the predators, ratio per population as compared to the more numerous whitetails. And perhaps they are more wary of the roadway than deer. I'm thinking of turkeys right now, we have as many turkeys as deer here in Missouri, yet that is a species that doesn't seem to get killed in the roadway too often. It happens on rare occasion, but not nearly as much as with whitetails. Of course, turkeys are roosted at night and not on the roadways, so maybe that has a large part to play. Even so, they are seldom hit during the daylight hours when they are active.

A couple of other comments related to the above. Many states have what is called a "permissive" wildlife code. In other words, they permit you to hunt certain animals and during the set aside season. Killing anything that isn't mentioned in the code book is illegal. It isn't permitted to kill something just because it isn't mentioned in the book. Food for thought, you may want to check your state wildlife regs before jerking the trigger on something you're unsure of.

And last, to the best of my knowledge, there has never been a documented "black" Mountain Lion. Panthers (leopards/jaguars) are a different animal and not native to the US, being found in Africa and Asia. The exception being the Jaguar of the Central America's, which does occasionally roam into the extreme southern U.S. Black Panther stories float around, yet, in all the good wide open western states since recorded time, and, all of American history of the east, has there ever been an actual black Mountain Lion documented. Not in all of our history. If there was such a critter ever, you'd think that when the populations were high and they were being hunted to the point of extermination in the eastern U.S. and hunted extensively in the western states, that at least ONE would have been found. Mountain Lions are still hunted in the western states and much, much, research in modern times has been devoted the big cat, and yet, there still are no black melanistic phase animals showing up. Food for thought... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused1.gif
 
If you ask me, I would say there are cats out east.... here is why. First NOBODY is KILLING them, we'd still have lots of cats here too, if every Tom, Dick and Harry didn't have a pack of hounds. I mean there are way too many guys that just want to kill a cat, no matter what sex, or size. Second lions need lots of wild country to set up a home range, and find enough food. The eastern US is more populated, but cats can adjust to that, and that is why I believe people out there see them more frequently.(That doesn't mean the "I saw a cat" stories are any more true then the BS I hear around here.) It simply means there are more people, less vast wilderness areas, and maybe some lions running around. It is funny that me having a dog box in the back of my truck is like an invitation for everybody to come and tell me they just saw a lion, or a bear. I gave up investigating those claims a long time ago. Take care, Mason
 
We have a lot of cougars here in Florida. I've seen one and have seen their tracks and heard them "scream".

It's very rare here for one to get hit by a car but once in awhile it happens.

They're most often seen from tree stands and RARELY from the ground.

The reason that states won't admit that they're there, or at least way under report their numbers, is that they'll lose funding to introduce and protect them.

$bob$
 
West TN mountain lions? I think not. There are some mountain lions that people had as pets, and had to "release" them when they got too big to handle. (There are a lot of cat sanctuaries here in E. TN) I wonder if released cats have hooked up and bred? I have personally never seen one here, even though I did come across some very suspicious tracks on our land in Overton Co.

Blake
 
I saw a show this weekend on Animal Planet. It showed a map of where mountain lions are located. They clearly showed that it was mostly located in the west, but pointed out that Florida had a population as well as small pockets of them all throughout the east......hmmm? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grinning-smiley-003.gif
 
are all these "had them as pets and then released them" stories just plants by the DNR? who do you know of that would get a mountain lion and keep it as a pet? realistically? honestly? no one that i know! do you hear of people keeping bobcats as pets? not me. probably because they don't and wouldn't. they'd be more manageable than a cougar. we don't have bobcats showing up in SE MI that were "kept as pets and released", but there are plenty of pet and release cougar stories.
 
Smithers,

back about 15 years ago when I lived on Long Island I would have to drive out to West Hampton to the Air National Gaurd base. For an entire summer there were two black panthers roaming around the area of scrub pines along the highway. They would sun them selves on the side of the interstate on the raised embankments. These were pretty big cats. Lots of pictures in the paper and on the local TV. They said they were pets that had been released or had gotten loose. Lots of people with more money than common sense live out that way. It caused quite a stir for a long time. They tried for a about 9 months to catch or kill them but were never able too. When I finally retired and moved away from that rat race, they were still roaming around out there. Don't know what happened to them, but it just goes to show what some people will do. I never put anything past a human. Unperdictable critters (the humans not the cats) to say the least /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Al
THO Game Calls
 
Back in 2000, these was a 150# Mountain Lion killed just a little south of the TN line in GA. In Ga part of the Cherokee National Forest.

It was all over the news and in the papers.

And the area that it was killed in is just down the road a ways from where I do a lot of my calling..

I'm hoping to someday get one to come into my calls, so I can finally verfiy that there are lions around these parts.


Now I have seen large cat tracks here and there up in the Mountians around here in South East TN, but never seen one personally..
 
i don't know much about the tn cat's, but if they are around in east tn they would have to be in the smokie's and i can beleive that they are there, since i get down that way at least once a year if not more. most of the mtn's that i have been in down that way are with in the park but there could be plenty of place's for them to hide in cave's and what not. if they are there i can all so undrstand why not to many are hit, speed's in the park are slower speed's and with all the tourist gone up and down they might think that it is a dog or some thing so they slow down for it with out realy knowing what for sure it was.
we have alot of report's of them being seen here in michigan as well, some close to my house and other's in area's that i hunt. we have a good number of bear's here as well, and i have been comming to this area all of my life but moved here about 8 or 9 year's ago and i have only seen a hand full of bear's here, but a lady i work with has them in her back yard eating out of the bird feeder just about every night and now she has started feeding them bread and other stuff. but yet i have only heard of a hand full of bear's hit by car's, one of witch was hit last spring that went over 300lbs witch is large for this area. i do hear just about evey bear hit do to having a fire department radio that scan's the police channel, and trust me win i say one or two bears i hear are hit every year.
florda has about 80 panthers in the southern area. they are a total different type of cat compared to a mtn lion, or at least that is what they dnr down there say. as a matter of fact i seen on the new's a week or two ago that one had moved farther north than they thought and it was hit by a car on the highway. the game warden that the new's intrviewed had been on the job for about 12 year, and in that time he had only seen 2 hit by car's. and he has only seen one or two in the wild and he is on patrole in that area. so they can be sneeky and can stay hidden farly well.
as far as any viewing's by me here i have yet to see one in this area. how ever we used to go every year out to colorado hunting mule deer. one year my self, my mother and grandfather where comming back from the meat shed and had just crossed in to a cow pashter, as a matter of fact i had not even gotten back in the blazer from closing the gate when i seen some thing about 200yrd's away. it was long and i pointed out to my grandfather and mother. all we had to get a closer look was are rifle scope's, so we pulled them out. well come to find out what we where looking at was a mtn lion, it was moving low to the ground on a sneek. that's when we relized what it was doing, there where about 10 head of cattel feeding in the bean stubble and the lion was sneeking in on them. it was about 100yrd's out from them when we seen it. since we where good friend's with the ranch owner and he told us to keep a look out for one since he had some cow's come up missing, we knew what we had to do. i am not sure on the rule's for that out there but where we came from if some thing is about to take some thing away from us that we work hard for we stop it from happening. well we opened fire (i was holding off, till my grandfather did some thing then i let the lead fly). my mom didn't shoot how ever since my grandfather had her rifle (he had taged out and wasn't carrying a gun). at first the dog gone thing didn't know what to do since we cought it out in the open, and it realy didn't know for a shot or two that we where shooting at it. on my secound shot i must have grazed it or hit it in the foot or some thing cause it jumped about 5 feet in the air and was favering it's left leg witch slowed it down some. i couldent conect with any other round how ever and my grandfather told my mom she could that her 243 and put it where the sun don't shine, lol. the big cat got out of sight fast how ever and we went to where it was at to see if there was any blood or hair, but not before we took the rental blazer for a cross country chase, well we where reloading. we never did get another shot and we never seen the cat again. then thats when we went to look for blood or hair, witch we couldent get a pin point on where it was at when we shot, witch was are own fault. but we did look how ever, then went and told the owner what we seen and that we think that i might have winged it. that's when we found out that in the area we where hunting that they did not have a season, but the border of the ranch was a river and on the other side there was a season. but we all so found out that the owner or any of his ranch hand's talked to the fur fish and game and where told that if it was seen to kill it since it taking live stock. at least that is what the owner told us, weather it was true or not was another story.
i think that there might be a few in some of the eastren state's but i don't for see a big population ever happening since the human population won't let that happen. i don't mean to sound like some one that break's the law's, but if i see one around my house (witch i am in a area that is more state land than privet, and is all big wood's) i am going to dump it, the reason why is i have two young kid's and i am not going to even risk the chance of them getting hurt by one. i would do the same if i seen a bear hanging around my yard more than 3 time's in a month. (i had one come in to some roten carret's once but that was it)it might be wrong but my kid's are my world and i wouldn't think twice to protect them, since they play around some in the back yard witch is wood's but they know where to stop and where it is ok to play. just my 2cent's.
bow
 
Missouri has just declassified Mountain Lions from "Endangered Species" to "Threatened" status. This for better management purposes.
 
About 3 weeks ago there was an "alert" at Andrews AFB outside of Washington DC (just outside the Beltway, but in MD) when there were 2 seperate reports of a panther/mountain lion on the same day. One from a group of shoppers at the PX who saw it outside the door, and the other from gate guards. Lots of hullaboo. Lock downs, swat teams, game wardens, APs, etc. roaming the base looking for the cat(s). At sundown a decision was made to not search in the woods for a mountain lion during the dark. Search resumed the next day. Nothing found.

Tysons Corner and McLean, VA have been plauged by unverified reports of big cat sightings for years. About one sighting every 2 or 4 months. Nothing ever found.

Further West, about 6 years ago, in Clarke, I shot a buck deer w/a muzzle loader just a few minutes after sundown. Although seemingly a solid hit the deer ran off into the bushes. I waited a few minutes then followed. I picked up the blood trail and heard it thrashing a hundred or so yards away, but due to low light and really thick rasberry brush couldn't see it. It just stayed out of sight but kept moving. A good blood trail. About 7 I went back to the house and got a flashlight. Discovered the batteries were dead and drove to the store to get new ones, then returned with them to the scene. I figured the delay allowed the animal to either bleed out, or at least hopefully stiffen up a little. I resumed tracking. I found where it had laid down. A pool of blood by a tree, but no blood trail leading away. I did the spiral thing from that spot but found only the trail leading in. Once I thought I heard a growl, but the noise didn't repeat. At 10 O'clock at night I called it quits. It was freezing cold and I was growing weary of crawling around under rasberry bushes on my hands and knees with a flashlight and a musket. The next day I resumed the hunt. I retraced the still visible trail and again was led to the pool of blood. It was bigger than I remembered. Puzzled, I looked at it. As I studied it, a new drop of blood dropped into the center of the pool with a plop. I looked up. About 10 or 12 feet off the ground in the tree was my deer. I had to go back to the house, get a ladder then return. I got the deer out and discovered something had bitten off it's butt. Right through the pelvic bone and half a haunch was missing. Some disagreement resulted at the check station and the butcher between gamewardens and the personnel doing the processing. It seems it is an official position of VA Fish and Wildlife that there are no cougars in VA. [In WV where the butcher was, that game warden looked at the bite and declared cougar.] In VA, the gun store owner doing the check in processing was told by the local VA warden the bite was from a dog or a bear or a coyote and the dog or bear or coyote must be what hauled the animal up the tree. The shot, for those who care, was good one. Took out a lung and clipped the aorta. My suspicion is the thrashing I heard wasn't just the deer crawling away. More probable is it was already dead and being dragged and hauled up into the tree. Likewise if I had looked up when scanning for trail, I might have had a nasty shock. I think I know what growled at me. I am a little more cautious when hunting this area these days and no longer assume it is just me, bambi, and an occasional fox.
 
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I have never heard of a Mountain Lion doing this. Are you sure that you don't have any African Leopard there?
 
SuperC,

I have never even once heard of a mountain lion carrying a deer up a tree to feed on it. I doubt it's even possible.

The only animal I EVER heard of doing that is an African leopard and they almost always do it.

Your story just doesn't add up. Makes for quite interesting reading though. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

$bob$
 
Mountain Lions will pull a deer up a tree. I have just seen this on the Discovery Channel, and have found evidence of it while hunting lions. SuperC could be dead on! Take care, Mason
 
I know they are in north AL I called one in early fall 2 years ago.I reported it and the GPS location.I was able to watch this cat for 20 min while calling coyotes with a kitten distress.I was only 2 miles from the TN line up on skyline.

This past winter we hunted coyotes in the same area give or take a mile.One morning after a rain we came across these tracks,the tracks crissed crossed up and down a steep bank.There were no claw marks as a dog would clearly make at this angle.

here are a few frame grabs from the film we took of the tracks.

NVE00006.png


NVE00007.png
 
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