Old No7
Member
OK, I know some folks think these guns are a solution looking for a problem...
For survival or subsistence hunting, sure, an accurate .410/20 over a .22/.22 Mag would probably be a really good combination to have, but these combo guns aren't too popular overall -- over here, that is, as opposed to all the double-rifles and drillings used across the pond. One reason why they're not very popular here may be they're really not known for accuracy from both bores, as on the cheaper ones with fixed rifle-to-shotgun barrels, it's tough to get both to hit to the same point of aim. "Not even close" is what I've seen to date. Until now, that is...
Since I sometimes will carry both a 12 ga shotgun along when hunting for fox or coyotes, as well as my .222 Rem (Mdl 700), it does add to the carry load -- especially when there's deep snow and I'm pushing through unbroken terrain in snowshoes to reach my stands. Plus carrying a pack with survival and fur skinning gear, and some snacks and the FoxPro electronic call and remote. So I've often thought that a neat -- but accurate -- combination gun would be something to get. And I got finally got one that passes the grade.
This is the "American Arms RS" (rifle/shotgun) 12ga/.222 Remington combination gun made in Italy by Marocchi using many of the Finn-designed "Valmet 412" features (except mine has a double trigger) and I've also read that it was made on the same Finnish tooling as used for Valmet's or Tikka's combination guns that was eventually moved southeast to Italy. It has 26" barrels, a brass bead out front with a flip-up rear blade, a screw-in choke for the shotgun (mine is choked Full+) , and it's 43" OAL with a Monte Carlo walnut stock with what looks like impressed skip-checkering, QD swivel studs and an automatic safety. Overall, it looks pretty nice and handles very well, and the lockup of the Greener crossbolt is very secure. But notice how thin that lower rifle barrel is... (Then again, I won't be shooting 5- or 10-shot groups with it either.)
The rifle barrel is fixed to the solid breech, of course, and there's just a tiny bit of play at the muzzle end; but that's a design feature so it floats a little to allow for elevation changes (just like how a 1911 barrel can tilt in a barrel bushing). The slide located under the shotgun barrel flexes the middle of the rifle barrel down or up slightly -- thus bowing it -- and with the rear fixed at the breech, the front floats just enough to allow the barrel to throw the shot up or down. Somehow it all works, as I was able to move the elevation (-4") on the first try today, and then back +1.5" to where I needed it to be. There are no witness marks (yet, although I may add some) but once she's dialed-in, I don't expect to touch the adjustments screws at all.
At the muzzle, there are these witness marks so you can slightly flex the front of the bore (remember, we're talking 1,000th's of an inch movement for any adjustments) to correct for the windage. One could adjust the rear sight in its dovetail too, but since the shotgun barrel is fairly heavy and fixed, I fired it first and found it right-on with the windage, but low without the rear sight being used. Raising the rear blade put my shot load right on target at 30 yards, so the rifle bore needs to be tweaked to make it align with the rear blade. The factory's witness marks were right-on when I started, but the shots were to the right, so I moved the lower barrel just a tad to the left (as you're moving the bullet -- not the front sight) and it's pretty close now. But I'll do some more testing before I call it done.
Here's a load of #4 buckshot at 30 yards, using the rear blade sight to get the elevation I needed. Yup, I think this will take a coyote out to maybe 40 yards or more, but I'll have to test it at those ranges to be sure. (After all, it was windy and a balmy 22 degrees over at the range this morning, so I didn't test everything...)
And here's a 3-shot group at 50 yards with the .222 Rem barrel, with 2 shots touching. Given the c-c-c-cold temps and that I'd already been on the firing line for 1.5 hours shooting some other stuff -- and this was shot with coarse iron sights -- I was pretty pleased with it. Also remember that as a break-open action, I had to move it off the rest to unload & load and setup for the next shot each time. Given those conditions and the sights, this group exceeded my expectations, and I'll test it next at 75 and 100 yards to fine-tune it. By proving the ability for me to adjust and dial-in the rifle's bore to match the same sight setting as the shotgun, I was very pleased overall.
One thing I'll have to get used to is that the "close" shot (shotgun) is the rear trigger on this gun, while the far shot (rifle) is the front (which breaks clean right at 4#) -- and this is totally opposite how I've setup my side-by-side 20 ga Dickinson Estate for clays or hunting. I'll have to remember this gun's model is "RS" for rifle-shotgun, so the rifle fires first (front trigger, that is...)
I haven't bloodied it yet, but I'm really thinking that with the patterns and groups it shot today -- in some very tough conditions -- it should do really well in the thick woods here in Maine when out hunting for fur. I can think of many places where the shotgun would work great for a close shot, but there are multiple open lanes where a rifle shot would be possible -- now I have the choice by only moving a finger, not by changing guns.
It will get used for fox, bobcat or coyotes, but I'm now calling this my "Coyote Killer" which seems to be appropriate.
Anyone else have any experiences with these combination guns?
Old No7
For survival or subsistence hunting, sure, an accurate .410/20 over a .22/.22 Mag would probably be a really good combination to have, but these combo guns aren't too popular overall -- over here, that is, as opposed to all the double-rifles and drillings used across the pond. One reason why they're not very popular here may be they're really not known for accuracy from both bores, as on the cheaper ones with fixed rifle-to-shotgun barrels, it's tough to get both to hit to the same point of aim. "Not even close" is what I've seen to date. Until now, that is...
Since I sometimes will carry both a 12 ga shotgun along when hunting for fox or coyotes, as well as my .222 Rem (Mdl 700), it does add to the carry load -- especially when there's deep snow and I'm pushing through unbroken terrain in snowshoes to reach my stands. Plus carrying a pack with survival and fur skinning gear, and some snacks and the FoxPro electronic call and remote. So I've often thought that a neat -- but accurate -- combination gun would be something to get. And I got finally got one that passes the grade.
This is the "American Arms RS" (rifle/shotgun) 12ga/.222 Remington combination gun made in Italy by Marocchi using many of the Finn-designed "Valmet 412" features (except mine has a double trigger) and I've also read that it was made on the same Finnish tooling as used for Valmet's or Tikka's combination guns that was eventually moved southeast to Italy. It has 26" barrels, a brass bead out front with a flip-up rear blade, a screw-in choke for the shotgun (mine is choked Full+) , and it's 43" OAL with a Monte Carlo walnut stock with what looks like impressed skip-checkering, QD swivel studs and an automatic safety. Overall, it looks pretty nice and handles very well, and the lockup of the Greener crossbolt is very secure. But notice how thin that lower rifle barrel is... (Then again, I won't be shooting 5- or 10-shot groups with it either.)
The rifle barrel is fixed to the solid breech, of course, and there's just a tiny bit of play at the muzzle end; but that's a design feature so it floats a little to allow for elevation changes (just like how a 1911 barrel can tilt in a barrel bushing). The slide located under the shotgun barrel flexes the middle of the rifle barrel down or up slightly -- thus bowing it -- and with the rear fixed at the breech, the front floats just enough to allow the barrel to throw the shot up or down. Somehow it all works, as I was able to move the elevation (-4") on the first try today, and then back +1.5" to where I needed it to be. There are no witness marks (yet, although I may add some) but once she's dialed-in, I don't expect to touch the adjustments screws at all.
At the muzzle, there are these witness marks so you can slightly flex the front of the bore (remember, we're talking 1,000th's of an inch movement for any adjustments) to correct for the windage. One could adjust the rear sight in its dovetail too, but since the shotgun barrel is fairly heavy and fixed, I fired it first and found it right-on with the windage, but low without the rear sight being used. Raising the rear blade put my shot load right on target at 30 yards, so the rifle bore needs to be tweaked to make it align with the rear blade. The factory's witness marks were right-on when I started, but the shots were to the right, so I moved the lower barrel just a tad to the left (as you're moving the bullet -- not the front sight) and it's pretty close now. But I'll do some more testing before I call it done.
Here's a load of #4 buckshot at 30 yards, using the rear blade sight to get the elevation I needed. Yup, I think this will take a coyote out to maybe 40 yards or more, but I'll have to test it at those ranges to be sure. (After all, it was windy and a balmy 22 degrees over at the range this morning, so I didn't test everything...)
And here's a 3-shot group at 50 yards with the .222 Rem barrel, with 2 shots touching. Given the c-c-c-cold temps and that I'd already been on the firing line for 1.5 hours shooting some other stuff -- and this was shot with coarse iron sights -- I was pretty pleased with it. Also remember that as a break-open action, I had to move it off the rest to unload & load and setup for the next shot each time. Given those conditions and the sights, this group exceeded my expectations, and I'll test it next at 75 and 100 yards to fine-tune it. By proving the ability for me to adjust and dial-in the rifle's bore to match the same sight setting as the shotgun, I was very pleased overall.
One thing I'll have to get used to is that the "close" shot (shotgun) is the rear trigger on this gun, while the far shot (rifle) is the front (which breaks clean right at 4#) -- and this is totally opposite how I've setup my side-by-side 20 ga Dickinson Estate for clays or hunting. I'll have to remember this gun's model is "RS" for rifle-shotgun, so the rifle fires first (front trigger, that is...)
I haven't bloodied it yet, but I'm really thinking that with the patterns and groups it shot today -- in some very tough conditions -- it should do really well in the thick woods here in Maine when out hunting for fur. I can think of many places where the shotgun would work great for a close shot, but there are multiple open lanes where a rifle shot would be possible -- now I have the choice by only moving a finger, not by changing guns.
It will get used for fox, bobcat or coyotes, but I'm now calling this my "Coyote Killer" which seems to be appropriate.
Anyone else have any experiences with these combination guns?
Old No7
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