ND740 4x or ATN MARS 4x3

5

5spd

New member
I searched a ton here but failed to see any posts on the ATN MARS NV scopes. Plenty on the ND740/760s though.
I have a pal that has the nd740 & like it, BUT what I want to know is how that ATN MARS line 4x3 VS the nd740, 4x performs, 3rd gen of course.
I would like to know what the internals are a as well, plastic or paper seals or real O rings, plastic parts for windage/elevation controls in each or metal/plastic. TNVC Im sure you have worked on both units, any info you want to share about internals?
If you dont own an ATN MARS reason to state "I heard" about either unit, need actual ATN users to post up. Under search everything with "scope" pops up unrelated to NV scopes
Im looking at both.
Thanks
 
I had a atn gen2+ 4x scope had it two weeks sent it back and bought a night optics ns520 there was no comparison in tube and glass quality going to the night optics. I have had the chance to look through a mars and a d760 and the d760 is a far better scope IMO. If your looking for a 4x dedicated scope you should also consider the d750 it is basically a d740 with better resolution.
 
I'm kind of curious about the ATN Mars as well- I can get one for a big discount. I'm TOTALLY new to all the NV stuff but aren't the Pinnacle tubes really good? The ATN Mars 4x-3P, supposedly, uses a ITT Pinnacle gen 3 tube. Wouldn't this be the same as any other Pinnacle tube, like those used by TNVC and USNV?
 
Most guys that are knowledgeable about GOOD night vision have a disdain for anything ATN. It is difficult at best to tell what quality tube you'll get.
 
Originally Posted By: JB55Most guys that are knowledgeable about GOOD night vision have a disdain for anything ATN. It is difficult at best to tell what quality tube you'll get.
They list what tubes they have in them, standard, hand select, pinnical etc., why would that be different than any other brand thats out there & listed the same way on any NV site?
Is it because no one is sure of the actual internal MFGs of said tubes or something else. Are all NV tubes imported or some made in USA & others else where of unknown quality. This is the info I cant find yet or get from websites.
Are internals for the 740/ATN line such as focus/eleveation/windage plastic or brass/light weight metals, what type of seals are used such as actual o-rings or paper seals, siliconed together or otherwise.
This is info no MFG prints in their paper work info on stats.
Thats what Im trying to find out on a ATN vs NO & other brands..
I can find all that info on a standard day scope all over but when it comes to NV no one has cut away views or internal pictures of the units they sell. It seems like no NV seller wants that listed or is afraid to say.
For a company to say our NV is better than the other, but wont tell you how/what the actual internals are besides it has this tube just dont make a lot of sense to a person spending $4k plus on a tool, but isnt told how/where/what its made of.
This is why Im looking for anyone who has to had to either take one apart OR better yet from a dealer who does work/repair on them.
 
Originally Posted By: JB55Most guys that are knowledgeable about GOOD night vision have a disdain for anything ATN. It is difficult at best to tell what quality tube you'll get.

Yeah, I figured that out pretty quick, lol! I wish I had a hook-up for another company- it'd make my decision(s) a lot easier. But, when you can save a bunch of money with one brand, it's sure tempting to give them a shot. The whole thing has had me in a holding pattern for a few months now on making the jump.

The part that I'm lost on, though is the Pinnacle tube options. If I order from TNVC I have my choice of a Pinnacle tube or a hand-selected Pinnacle tube. I recognize that getting a hand-selected tube assures you get a little better tube; but I can't imagine that, if I chose the regular Pinnacle tube option, that I'd be disappointed with the non-hand-selected unit I get from TNVC. Since the ATN models that use a Pinnacle tube should be using the same tubes that TNVC uses in their units (non-hand-selected), wouldn't the odds be about the same with either company? Or, are there suspicions that ATN is saying it's a Pinnacle tube but NOT actually using a Pinnacle tube?

I've got to say, though, that my boss bought a cheap gen 2+ scope from ATN for Christmas and it's got a pretty clear picture and seems to work well. I've shot it at targets at 100yds and I can see well beyond that- enough to identify a coyote. I can't even imagine what a really good Gen 3 would look like.

Definitely not trying to argue at all- just trying to educate myself so that I make a good decision.
 
Originally Posted By: SouthTXBowhunter Definitely not trying to argue at all- just trying to educate myself so that I make a good decision.

This is how I feel. I want to know all the specifics of the NV optics I want to buy and not one MFG can give a straight answer as to my questions.
Most all the NV housings are imported, tubes are with the exception of maybe 2 USA mfgs, why are NV companies afraid to state what the real internals are, what country they came from, what type of sealing material is used whether it be paper or rubber or if its all plastic gearing inside or otherwise.
I see bashing of brands on NV forums, but on this site I want to find actual hands-on info for both the ones I am looking at, not just get this brand because I hear the other is junk from what another seller/assembler said. Im still going to give it a shot!
Why not just be upfront to the customer that has the $ to purchase, but wants to know all the actual specs of the internals/build before buying so they can make an informed decision.
I have used a 3rd gen d740, but have not seen/used a ATN MARS4x3 to do a sxs comparison.
I cant bust my pals open to have a look like I could a vehicle transmission....:)
Prices are close, but are the guts?
 
5spd I don't think anyone knows the answer to your internal part question other than the manufacturer and you made it clear in your OP you did not want 2nd hand info so I'm not sure what you expect to find out here.
 
Originally Posted By: Shurshot5spd I don't think anyone knows the answer to your internal part question other than the manufacturer and you made it clear in your OP you did not want 2nd hand info so I'm not sure what you expect to find out here.
I did find out that 740/760 uses plastic internal gear style for their windage/elevation controls & reported paper style seals/gasket in it as well last night finally after some more looking and an email from a user here to an old NV post on another forum I had not seen in searching. I see ATN has mylar gears like above. That was a help.
Overall I was keeping the fingers crossed for someone who took one apart (either brand) for repairs or even from a NV vendor that would know so I could be a bit more educated on the items of interest.
My final decision is close right now & appreciate the answers I did get here.
Thanks all.
 
there would be no difficulty for me to decide this one.
smile.gif
good luck and let us know what you end up with!
 
Originally Posted By: 5spdOriginally Posted By: JB55Most guys that are knowledgeable about GOOD night vision have a disdain for anything ATN. It is difficult at best to tell what quality tube you'll get.
They list what tubes they have in them, standard, hand select, pinnical etc., why would that be different than any other brand thats out there & listed the same way on any NV site?
Is it because no one is sure of the actual internal MFGs of said tubes or something else. Are all NV tubes imported or some made in USA & others else where of unknown quality. This is the info I cant find yet or get from websites.
Are internals for the 740/ATN line such as focus/eleveation/windage plastic or brass/light weight metals, what type of seals are used such as actual o-rings or paper seals, siliconed together or otherwise.
This is info no MFG prints in their paper work info on stats.
Thats what Im trying to find out on a ATN vs NO & other brands..
I can find all that info on a standard day scope all over but when it comes to NV no one has cut away views or internal pictures of the units they sell. It seems like no NV seller wants that listed or is afraid to say.
For a company to say our NV is better than the other, but wont tell you how/what the actual internals are besides it has this tube just dont make a lot of sense to a person spending $4k plus on a tool, but isnt told how/where/what its made of.
This is why Im looking for anyone who has to had to either take one apart OR better yet from a dealer who does work/repair on them.



A simple phone call to ATN tech support would be the best thing to do in your interests, what you learn from that call could save you allot of money and hassle as to the quality of their support for their own product. Personally, I would not purchase anything ATN.

My main concern, besides uselfulness, of my NV and Thermal gear is high quality mil-spec construction as well as high quality service from a respected manufacturer, in that regard, ITT, FLIR and TNVC have my votes because they have earned them. Another good reason why I own many FLIR products and am on the TNVC short list for a TNVC WASP.....
wink.gif
 
[/quote]
I've got to say, though, that my boss bought a cheap gen 2+ scope from ATN for Christmas and it's got a pretty clear picture and seems to work well. I've shot it at targets at 100yds and I can see well beyond that- enough to identify a coyote. I can't even imagine what a really good Gen 3 would look like.

Definitely not trying to argue at all- just trying to educate myself so that I make a good decision.[/quote]

Daytime!
laugh.gif
With good IR illuminator!

The ATN gen1 units(MK410, MK350, Aries 330) with a t100c2 3.4w IR light works to 300yds, 200yds and under No Problem!
The up to date gen3 units are way better , kinda like a pedal bike and a Jet plane comparison
laugh.gif


The Gen 1 with powerful IR light are good in open areas, you need to lower the level of IR in brush or the reflection off the brush will over power the screen. The gen3 PVS14 gives all around use, head mount, rifle mounted with IR laser, rifle mounted with zoom lens and IR laser or eotech. Rifle mounted behind day scope, having parallax adjustment on scope works best to keep sharp focus with pvs14.

The tubes ITT/L3 in the NV are not the problem its the rest of the device, and how well the company takes care of you.
I had a problem with a flir unit, they shipped me a replacement immediately, they didn't make me ship it to them and wait to see how they were going to handle it. Getting a replacement unit in my hands was their top priority, I don't think you will get that level of service from ATN, I hope I am wrong but they have a long rep of bad service, and that takes years of great service to try and over come, thus the "I would not buy from them recommendation" from so many.

Buying a low cost ATN unit like the units I listed work(all purchased used), I know because I have used them, with powerful IR light. But be aware of the risks from those that have learned the hard way dealing with atn.
 
Hardware, which atn scope did your boss purchase? I had a atn night Arrow 4x with a cgt tube and it was like looking though a fishbowl and that was with a torch pro. I've also looked through several gen 1 atn scopes and there is no illuminator that would let you identify a coyote vs a dog at 100 yards. I will say that as far as customer service goes that is very important and atn did let me return my scope and refund my money. The way I look at it, most people purchase night vision to be able to identify what they are shooting at or in my case light shy yotes whatever the reason if you purchase gen 1 or gen 2 and you get the change to look through gen 3 it will always be on your want list, and if your going to sink 3-5k make sure your getting a quality product an buy from a reputable company. I know the guys at tnvc are top notch and customer service is great!
 
Originally Posted By: kyle crickenbergerI had a atn night Arrow 4x with a cgt tube and it was like looking though a fishbowl and that was with a torch pro.

I bought the exact same scope you returned. I did not like it and sold it to a friend who thought it was OK for the money (discounted over 30% to him)
smile.gif
. I agree it is better than nothing but I had to have better. remember the OP was about a different scope and it was a gen3 so this is not meant to represent the one 5spd is asking about. and my friend has killed 3 yotes with it since he got it from me. I was impressed with the crispness and precision of the windage and elevation knobs but not with the scope overall.

here is a pic I took with the one I sold. the back side of the stop sign on the left was 200 yards with this CGT tube. is it as good as gen3? Heck no! is it like looking through a fish bowl? I don't think it was that bad, but it was definitely better some times I used it than others which I did not like. this pic is with no IR assistance. just goes to show you are kind of buying a pig in a poke from ATN in my opinion.

nv7.jpg
 
The quote about his boss was from SouthTXbowhunter. The gen1 units will have a fishbowl effect due to the vacuum tube type intensifier. The MK350, MK450, aries330 are the ones I have used, with the t100c2 3.4 watt IR Illuminator 200yds is not a problem. The gen1 CORE units are suppose to have a normal view, as opposed to fishbowl effect. I have never used night arrow. The 50mm or larger optics are needed for gen1 to work better.
The fish bowl effect isn't this bad with the naked eye, and the picture is a much sharper, just like when you take pictures with gen3 NV it looks even better with the naked eye.
 
Originally Posted By: ShurshotOriginally Posted By: kyle crickenbergerI had a atn night Arrow 4x with a cgt tube and it was like looking though a fishbowl and that was with a torch pro.

I bought the exact same scope you returned. I did not like it and sold it to a friend who thought it was OK for the money (discounted over 30% to him)
smile.gif
. I agree it is better than nothing but I had to have better. remember the OP was about a different scope and it was a gen3 so this is not meant to represent the one 5spd is asking about. and my friend has killed 3 yotes with it since he got it from me. I was impressed with the crispness and precision of the windage and elevation knobs but not with the scope overall.

here is a pic I took with the one I sold. the back side of the stop sign on the left was 200 yards with this CGT tube. is it as good as gen3? Heck no! is it like looking through a fish bowl? I don't think it was that bad, but it was definitely better some times I used it than others which I did not like. this pic is with no IR assistance. just goes to show you are kind of buying a pig in a poke from ATN in my opinion.

nv7.jpg



I hunted with Kyles 4x night arrow and to say it looked like a fish bowl is an understatement. It is garbage. It is better than hunting with a red light but thats about all I can say. If you want a gen2 get a 520. If you want the real deal get gen3. You get what you pay for.
 
had you read the entire post you would see the OP was talking about gen3. we were discussing ATN moreso than tube generation. we already know gen3 is better. he is trying to decide if Night Optics is worth the price difference over ATN, gen3 to gen3
 
If you are looking for a dedicated NV scope and are looking to save some $$, there WAS a Gen II+ SHP (super high performance) scope, the M845, however, they are all gone now. I purchased one a used one little while ago that is in like new condition for a great price, and it works VERY well, especially with a good IR illuminator like the Torch Pro from TNVC.

http://www.opticsplanet.com/night-optics-m845-gen-2-2-8x-night-vision-sight.html
Was $1,899

There is another one out that I THINK is very close to that and is currently available, NS-520. I HAVE NOT used this scope.
$1,899

http://www.nightoptics.com/no/product/NS-520-2S.htm
You may want to call to make sure it is the same tube. (SHP)

Both are only 3X, but I've taken coyotes at 150 yards during new moon, using the Torch Pro and could easily see well past that distance.

M845 uses a red dot reticle, the NS-520 has a Mil Dot Reticle, which would be nice but the red dot is easier to put on a moving target, IMO.

Neither are Gen III, but are as close as you can get without paying the Gen III price. I can tell you that the M845 is built like a tank.
 
Back
Top