need gun cleaning advice

sleddogg

sleddogg

New member
I am having trouble getting all the copper fouling out of my 223 rem bore. Right now I'm using Shooters Choice bore cleaner. I have a nylon brush a was wondering if I should get a copper or stainless brush. If I let the bore sit overnite with bore cleaner in it, and work real hard eventually it will come clean. THERE HAS TO BE A BETTER WAY!!!!!! I'm spending WAY too much time and energy on this. Advice on bore cleaning methods and cleaners needed! Thanks
 
You need to get a solvent that is designed to remove the copper fouling, such as Sweets 7.62. The Shooters Choice bore solvent works good on powder residue but doesn't do much to clean the copper fouling. I use Bore Tech copper remover and am very happy with their products. Just follow the directions on the bottle and you should be all set. There should be no need to soak the barrel. Some products tell specifically NOT to. When you start seeing your patches coming out very blue colored. That's the copper being removed. Good Luck!
 
By far the best I've found is the Outers Foul Out electro-chemical process. After using my usual process of Shooter's Choice and Sweets 7.62 and trying to get the barrel spotless I used the Outers system. I was amazed at the amount of copper I was able to remove from a barrel I thought was perfectly clean! It was interesting to see that the bulk of the copper was in the first 8 or 10 inches of the barrel and it gradually faded away as the bullet traveled down the tube. I don't use the Outers everytime I clean, maybe just once a year when I've shot alot and think their might be some build up. The nice thing is your bore is perfectly clean when you get done without having put any wear and tear on it. The copper particles are just attracted to the charged rod in the bore and basically just float over to it through the solution. I'd definately recommend it.
 
The Outers Foul-Out is good, but not everyone can afford it. For those using the liquid copper removers I'd sugest either Barnes CR-10 or Sweets. Be sure to use your nylon bristled brush. The bronze bristled brushes gets eaten pretty fast by the amonia. You'll find the copper is in layers unfortunately. When you think you have it clean, run a brush or jag through the barrel with Butch's Bore Shine or Shooters' Choice to expose the next layer. Then repeat the process as often as required until the copper is out. It's a killer job, but there's not much way to avoid it. When finished, be sure to oil the barrel well as insurance. Best wishes.

Cal - Montreal
 
Whatever you do, DO NOT mix Shooters Choice and Sweets. It has a chemical reaction that will destroy your barrel. Also if you use a brass brush, because it is made of copper and bronze, it will look like the bore is still fouled when it may not be. Use a nylon brush.

Paul
 
Hi Twotwenty swift, Is the outers foul out system hard to set up? The 223 is a really small bore. Do you have to float that rod in the middle? Also can I wreck my barrel if I use it wrong? Thanks
 
Sleddogg the Foul Out is a very simple system. You just put a couple of the correct diameter rubber o-rings on the rod to prevent it from contacting the barrel. Then you plug the chamber end with one of the supplied rubber plugs. Then just add a small amount of the appropriate solution until the barrel is filled. It dosen't take much because the rod fills most of the available space in a 22 caliber bore. There is one solution for copper and one for lead. Then it's simply a matter of turning the unit on and waiting for the "clean" light to come on. This of course varies depending on the amount of copper or lead in your barrel. The latest model (Foul Out III ) has the power head mounted right on the rod which makes it even easier to use. I guarantee you'll get a much cleaner barrel than by the old patch and brush method. With all the money we spend on rifles, bedding, triggers, stocks, and all the other things in search of accuracy, it seems odd to skimp on something as basic as a truely clean bore which can make a huge difference when it comes to accuracy. I've found that on the high velocity rounds such as the .17 Rem and the Swift it is necessary to use this unit a little more often to keep tack driving accuracy. I don't hesitate to recommend it and guarantee you'll like the results. It's VERY eye opening! (Setting it up wrong could in no way ruin your barrel. It simply wouldn't clean it. There are also indicator lights on the unit which would let you know the rod was touching the barrel so it's basically fool proof.)
(I just checked the Outer's website. The Foul Out III has a suggested retail price of $105 so it's not all that expensive)
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MOOSE What do you mean in destroying your barrel. Will it affect SS and moly. What will it do? How can a person tell if it is doing some damage? How long will it take to do the damage? Thanks Lavoy
 
If you are having that much trouble with a .223 coppering, something is not right. .223's copper up very little in my experience.

Could be a layer build up as mentioned already and may take some doing to get it all out. It has been my experience that Sweets or Montana Extreme should be able to handle it unless you want to buy the Outers product. Have never seen a barrel that Sweets would not clean including my .17 Rem.

Apply a couple of patches wet with Sweets, let set for a few minutes and patch out. You do not brush with Sweets. It will eat up your brush. Repeat process until patches show no blue color. You can also apply the Sweets using a nylon brush and give your barrel some work if you feel it needs it. Be sure to patch dry Sweets out of barrel or patch some alcohol through to neutral. Patch in rust preventive protection until next shoot.

Hart barrels recommends leaving Shooters Choice in barrel (www.hartbarrels.com)to work on copper.
 
Sweet's will do it. Sweet's scares me becuase you CAN NOT leave it in the barrel. But then you don't have to. Sweet's gets it out. Let me introduce you to a friend of mine Butch. Butches bore shine will do it overnight. 1. Dry bore, 2. Push patch soaked down the barrel. 3. With your Barrel repeat process with new patch again soaked. 4. let rifle sit overnight with the muzzle on the ground sitting on some paper so that you can view the blue(That's Copper) the next day. The solvent will slowly run out the barrel. Do it every night until it is gone. It works for me. All these guys make some sense. Give Ole Butch a try. He's a good guy.
 
Lavoy,
As I understand it, when you combine the 2, it creates a chemical reaction which can damage the bore of your gun. I believe it will damage any kind of barrel. Sweet's alone is very strong. It's the ammonia. You can only leave it in your barrel for 15-20 minutes. More than that and it starts eating the steel. Hell on copper, though. Just keep an eye on it and you'll be ok.

Paul
 
There have been several articles in Precision Shooting about the problems with combinations of cleaning solvents. Any combination of Shooters Choice and Sweets, even trace amounts has caused corrosion in stainless barrels. There is no real evidence that combining them causes corrosion in CM barrels. Regular steel barrels are usually 4130 Chrome Moly steel, CM.

There is no published evidence that either Shooters Choice or Sweets have ever caused corrosion when used alone, even for extended periods of time.

I have soaked, mirror polished sections of stainless barrels in Sweets for 24 hours and could see no corrosion even under high magnification.

Jack
 
That's good news Jack. I noticed that my brass Jag changed colors very quickly from the Sweet's and I was a little spooked about the tube and the possible slight combonation of solvents. The M70 stealth is the subject on hand with CM barrel to boot. Thank for making me sleep better at night. No if I would only stop snoring say's my wife.
 
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