New Coyote Hunter.....very frustrated. Advice?

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LiLPup

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New to Forum! Excited to be here. Im not new to killen yotes by no means. Do pretty good with my trapping, but calling is a different story. I believe to be a good trapper, one has to really understand these dogs. I guess when it comes to calling, Im pretty humbled. Not sure what Im doing wrong. Im confused on which call to use, when to use it, time of day, etc.... and the time of year. I live in southeastern Montana for info. For the last 2 years, I honestly have not been able to call in a single dog. Heres just a quick break down of my normal set up. Im fortunate enough to hunt a lot of ranches that do not allow hunting and dont do any coyote calling or trapping, so some dogs that I call are not call shy, or at least I dont believe so. I get a long way from whereever I park the pick up, and Im talking a minimum of a half mile. ALWAYS keep the wind to my face, and do my best to never skyline or to be seen. Im very cautious and sneaky. I call in river bottoms, open prairies, saigebrush flats, etc.... My usual sits are the first 2 hours of daylight and the last 2 hours of daylight. I be I have done 30 sits last year and 10 this year. Im in areas that have a ton of dogs. I see them all the time, I trap them as well. In the early winter such as now, Ill do a daybreak sit over looking a river bottom. Ill start with a lightning jack for about 5 to 7 minutes, then stop for 15 or 20. Then hit it again. Always start pretty quiet with the Foxpro incase there in close. Will gradually get louder. Ill do this for a few sits in the morning and get nothing. In the evening, I may try the coyote locate call and get no response or see anything. Later in the year, end of Jan and first of Feb, Ill start with the Female sounds, again, nothing. What am I doing wrong?? I dont believe its my sits, or where Im hunting, it has to be in what calls Im using and when. I dont even know where to begin with what type of call, what time of day, and how long to use it. Thanks for advice. Sorry for long post.
 
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Sounds like real bad dry spell for ya. Definitely hunt right after storms. Ranches, nice thing there is late Feb lots of after birth.
 
I know some of the guys who hunt the west like to use hand calls when calling. and you might try the cottontail dsg instead of the lightning jack. sometimes if you change the pitch of a sound just slightly you will bring them in. Good Luck. This is just my opinion cause im no expert by no means.
 
If you are not getting them to howl, ever, I would tend to think your fishing in a dry hole. They may travel through where you are, as in tracks, but they may live-hunt somewhere else. I have seen great country get wiped out by mange. I also have seen great looking country, that just didn't hold coyotes. I don't think it is anything you are doing that is wrong. Download a siren sound, and play it loud for around ten seconds, just at dark. If they are around, you should get a response. Try calling close to the cows, just don't use baby calf in distress. It is a lot like fishing, sometimes you throw everything in the tackle box and can't get a bite. Other days, any lure seems to work. You just have to be at the right place at the right time.
 
Thanks guys. I'll take all the advice. As far as howling, I'm positive where I'm hunting has dogs. Because of the howls is the reason I tried calling in those locations. I'll hear them as dark while hunting or setting traps, so I'll give it a day or two then go out and try to call. I'll try the pup distress and the cottontail as well. I just bought a new FoxPro and I think it is defective. The Lightning Jack has a wierd miss to it in certain parts of the recording. Almost sounds like what old cassett tapes use to sound like when the ribbon would mess up. Maybe this is normal. I have tried mouth calls, but not enough to rule them out. Maybe 5 or 6 sets and then gave up. Maybe I need to leave the distress call on for 20 minutes instead of 5 or 7? Thanks
 
I would also try varying your call times. A lot of the time I will call for 2-3 minutes and wait 30 seconds to a minute and a half then try again. I own a Alpha dogg made by Primos and they have Randy Anderson's Expert hunts and we play his set up that lasts about 25-30 minutes and they are calling every 3 minutes or so. I also like to use a mouth call and do a short challenge howl or even a female invitation while it is going. I always end a stand with Pup distress before I head out. Few things you might try.
 
Good advice from others already. It doesn't sound like you're far off the mark but something is missing. I generally don't care how far I get from my vehicle as long as it's out of sight of approaching coyotes. Make sure your whole approach is right from exiting the rig to getting to your stand. Here's an article I wrote for Longrange Hunting magazine on the subject: http://no-off-season.com/_docs/The%20Approach.pdf You might find something you're missing in there. Secondly, the biggest mistake people make is in how the set-up. You have to be able to see the coyotes to kill them. And, as Rotty says, make sure you can see downwind. If you don't, you will educate coyotes. Titus' Rule is "Make them show themselves if they want the downwind." You don't have to face downwind but make sure you can monitor it. Set up in front of a bush or a tree that is higher than your head and shoulders. Sounds used is down the list of importance but it's time to change it up. Use other JR sounds, switch to CT or snowshoe sounds, try birds, mix in some magpie...use some different lures in your tackle box. Especially for uneducated coyotes, I am not afraid of leaving the call running. What started them coming might keep them coming whether it's natural or not. You're triggering responses not just imitating critters. There are some more articles on our website that may be useful to you. http://no-off-season.com/artiles-and-news.html Good luck and keep at it. Success will be sweet when it comes!
 
I would ask you how many coyotes did you trap last year?

If you are trapping coyotes on a regular basis, then use some of that knowledge and apply it.

Meaning.. Do you think the Coyotes see your sets and walk to it, or sniff it? If you are facing into the wind, what direction do you think you are going to see most coyotes coming from?

Coyotes have A.D.D you can call for 7-9 minutes wait 30 seconds and play something else.. Give it 30 minutes.
Also, you don't have to walk .5 mile, you just don't want to see the truck. The more you tramp around the more scent you are leaving.
I don't know it, but, you might be moving to much. They are good as spotting movement and if you are sitting there looking everywhere scouring for a coyote, you are going to be giving yourself away. Move your head slowly and back and forth. Don't move anything else until you are going to shoot.
Good luck.
 
Awesome! Appreciate the help and the links. I will hit it hard this weekend and hope to take the advice and put it to use. One issue I may have like mentioned is the downwind part. A lot of times in my river bottom calling, I can't see behind me which is usually downwind. I'm wondering if the dogs are making a big loop and comming in to where I can't see them? A little tough to set up on the bottoms at times. I'll make that a priority this weekend. I'm sure some of these dogs have been called before on the river bottoms. Thanks. I may go out tonight as well. Lifting my spirits a little. I've watched entirely too many youtube videos and DVDs showing what seems like easy coyote calling. What percentage of the sits do you have coyotes come in? Say if you were to make 10 sets, is it common to have dogs respond 50% or more to your calls? Thanks
 
TBoneAZ. Average around 65 snared each year. I've thought many times about what you just said. Sometimes I feel I have went too far in trying to get off the road or away from the pickup and am doing more harm than good. As far as trapping, I've applied that knowledge to my calling and while I can't seem to call them in a certain location, I can come back in 3 days and have a pair in a set of snares in the crick bottom right where I was calling. I will take what you've said as well and apply it to this week and this weekend. Thanks for the help.
 
"Ill start with a lightning jack for about 5 to 7 minutes, then stop for 15 or 20. Then hit it again."

I call for about 20-30 seconds, then sit and watch for about 4-5 minutes, then repeat. By waiting 15-20 minutes between calls, a coyote might lose interest.

I believe the stand selection is crucial to success. As Tim said above, make them show themselves if they want the downwind and they always want the downwind, every time, 100% (margin of error is +/-1%, maybe less, lol).

When I move between stands, I go crosswind, and set up where I can see/shoot downwind.

I will use howls starting later this month, and use them for the remainder of my season (I usually quit in April). I have never had one howl back at me during daylight, they just come in quick and quiet. By February, they frequently come in pairs, and one usually stops as soon as they can see my calling position, and the other will try to get downwind.

And, I always glass the area before I stand up. You will be surprised how many times you see one looking at you from 3-500yds out, or one coming in from 1/2 a mile.

Good luck.
 
I've never called in your area, but from what you've posted It sounds similar to my area.

Nothing works every time. What works for me , may not work for you. Your bag of tricks needs to have lots, cause you are dealing with the 'Trickster.'

I hunt the 'river bottoms' here but we call them coulees. They hold lots of coyotes and as soon as you step off the rim, you are likely being watched by a coyote who lives there and makes his living by knowing what is going on in his "hood". He may be hunting, in which case he will see your movement immediately, or he may be laying up on the sunny side, in which case he will see your movement. If you are walking a half mile, he will likely see your movement. Are you seeing a pattern here?

I stay off the rim and out of the bottoms. I set up 100-200 yds from the rim and use my calls. I make sure i'm not gonna lose sight of him when he shows. No point in calling them in if you can't get the shot.
They usually pop up on the edge and stop for a look around. Depending on the shot , I may kill them then or I may lipsqueak and have him come away from the rim, so that when I hit him he doesn't spin down into the cover in the bottoms. Often there will be a second or third coyote as well, so it's a good idea to let the first one come in closer. Kill the farthest one first and when the others run back for the cover, they may stop to see what's up with their buddy.

I would bet your biggest problem is with your setup, not the calling. Sometimes I call loud and long, and sometimes not so much. I kill coyotes at anytime of the day, and when Mike Granger comes up here, we make it a point to howl at noon. Our success doing this is a constant source of entertainment for us. One spot we call at noon has produced a triple for Mike twice.

I only stay on a stand for 15-20 minutes usually. I make 9-10 stands a day. I call the coyotes to me, rather than walk out to them.

I also set up out in the open more often than in a hedge row or bushline. A coyote will travel the edge. If I'm tucked into the edge, I won't get the shot. If I'm in the open , I'll see him traveling the edge and kill him.

You trap, so you should know where their travel routes are. set up to watch them and start calling.

Some callers start off low and get louder, so they don't scare the target. It works for them. What works for me is loud and long. A coyote that is afraid of a loudly screaming rabbit, isn't much of a coyote.LOl.
 
Gotta say, the replys have me excited again about getting back out and trying. I see that I have probably been making a few mistakes with my sets as you and others have posted. Maybe it's not the calling, just the sets it sounds like. I've got a spot picked out for tomorrow that has never been called in. All private. I'll post up any success or the lack of ! Thanks
 
Good Luck..

Just remember that if you are sitting somewhere that has a blind spot that will be where they will hide and run off..
Try finding a spot that gives you 100 clearish view. set up in the shadow of something and put the call out about 25yrds out infront of you and a little up wind. (meaning try to sit so that the wind is angled) I like to set up so that if a coyote comes up the downwind, he will pass infront of me for a shotgun shot when they are still about 15 yrds short of the call.

Take your river bottom set..
Set up on the bank, set the call in the bottom, and so that if a coyote comes up the river, they will pass right in front of you.
 
Lots of good advice, I too think you may be calling them in and just not seeing them.
I often put a shooter downwind. At times it will only be minutes before the shot and I never saw a thing.
I have also seen them turn tail 200 yds downwind.
 
T-bone gave you another good piece of advice: Don't leave a dip or a fold in the land in front of you. I get far enough towards the bottom of a rise or slope that I can see everything in front of me or, as T-bone said, that's where they'll come in keeping you from a shot.
 
Originally Posted By: tripod3
I have also seen them turn tail 200 yds downwind.

I was calling on a slight hill when I spotted one coming from dead downwind. Knowing he is going to smell me at some point, I got out the laser and pegged him at about 800yds. With the scan feature running, it was right at 491yds when it looked like he hit an electric fence, turned and blew out of there.

So, at least on that day, they could smell me from 1/4 mile away.

Remember, you can fool their eyes, you can fool their ears, but you can never, never fool 'The Nose'.
 
Originally Posted By: RedfrogI've never called in your area, but from what you've posted It sounds similar to my area.

Nothing works every time. What works for me , may not work for you. Your bag of tricks needs to have lots, cause you are dealing with the 'Trickster.'

I hunt the 'river bottoms' here but we call them coulees. They hold lots of coyotes and as soon as you step off the rim, you are likely being watched by a coyote who lives there and makes his living by knowing what is going on in his "hood". He may be hunting, in which case he will see your movement immediately, or he may be laying up on the sunny side, in which case he will see your movement. If you are walking a half mile, he will likely see your movement. Are you seeing a pattern here?

I stay off the rim and out of the bottoms. I set up 100-200 yds from the rim and use my calls. I make sure i'm not gonna lose sight of him when he shows. No point in calling them in if you can't get the shot.
They usually pop up on the edge and stop for a look around. Depending on the shot , I may kill them then or I may lipsqueak and have him come away from the rim, so that when I hit him he doesn't spin down into the cover in the bottoms. Often there will be a second or third coyote as well, so it's a good idea to let the first one come in closer. Kill the farthest one first and when the others run back for the cover, they may stop to see what's up with their buddy.

I would bet your biggest problem is with your setup, not the calling. Sometimes I call loud and long, and sometimes not so much. I kill coyotes at anytime of the day, and when Mike Granger comes up here, we make it a point to howl at noon. Our success doing this is a constant source of entertainment for us. One spot we call at noon has produced a triple for Mike twice.

I only stay on a stand for 15-20 minutes usually. I make 9-10 stands a day. I call the coyotes to me, rather than walk out to them.

I also set up out in the open more often than in a hedge row or bushline. A coyote will travel the edge. If I'm tucked into the edge, I won't get the shot. If I'm in the open , I'll see him traveling the edge and kill him.

You trap, so you should know where their travel routes are. set up to watch them and start calling.

Some callers start off low and get louder, so they don't scare the target. It works for them. What works for me is loud and long. A coyote that is afraid of a loudly screaming rabbit, isn't much of a coyote.LOl.



Just a question here but if your coulee is on the far side of a quarter do you walk, drive or skip that quarter? Basically how to do approach that spot if you have to traverse nearly that 1/2 mile to get to that location?
 
I'm no where near the level of caller of some of the guys who previously gave you advice. I do call and kill yotes at all times of the year. I like to set up cross wind and use a decoy most of the time. If there is one area I always make sure I can see it is the downwind direction. That direction is also one that I prefer to see a good distance if possible. When I first started I believe I thought about it way too much. Tried to make everything perfect in an imperfect environment if that makes sense... Your trying to fool a coyote, not feed it. Make a few basic rules and stick with them every stand. As time passes, you'll adapt your rules based on your success and failures. Remember no one kills every stand, or if they do I want to hunt with them...
 


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