New fox/coyote rifle help, NJ specific regulations/conditions

AviD

AviD

New member
Hey guys, been awhile since I've been on here, but wanted to post up about the new NJ regulations for predator hunting which now permits rifles during daytime use!

Historically, the only thing we were able to hunt with rifles here was groundhogs (and trappers being able to dispatch trapped game with a .22)

So I'd like to invest in a rifle, but am not particularly knowledgeable about them given the lack of common usage here in NJ. Hopefully you guys/gals can get me started on the right track!

Here's a breakdown...


Targeted game:
- Foxes (primary, most abundant)
- Coyotes (secondary, more sought after, also fairly abundant but rarer shot opps...rifles are meant to help in that latter respect)


General shooting conditions:
- Ranges from 20-150 yards, occasionally in 150-250 yard ranges are possible but I can usually hang tight and call them in closer. Most yotes wind up hanging up at the 75-150 yard mark, and previously with shotguns only...shot opps were pretty difficult/rare.

- Terrain can be very thick (wooded) to very open (fields). Residential areas all around (not directly in line of immediate fire obviously, but a lot of NJ is densely populated so chances are there is a home "in the distance" of the direction you are firing [within 0.25-1.00 miles in some cases]), so obviously safety/awareness is of utmost concern in knowing your target and beyond. Given the residential areas, this is a primary concern of the caliber chosen and it's respective energy over distance. Again, given the regulations around here historically, I'm not "rifle knowledgeable" and am trying to do my due diligence in getting educated more on what might be best suited for these conditions. Perhaps the specific caliber isn't a huge concern given these conditions as long as proper caution is exercised (which it always will be). I just want to ensure I'm not overlooking anything in "hotter" rounds like a .22-250 that are capable of killing at much longer distances than I'd be shooting and might be considered "unsafe" in these conditions (or perhaps not). I should also add that I will hunt some areas only with shotgun given the proximity to residential areas. I would try to be pretty selective about where I'd use rifle vs shotgun.


Snapshot of the new NJ regulations:
sdtU6HB.png

Direct link: http://i.imgur.com/sdtU6HB.png

Looks like they did update it to include all .17 caliber now. Must have changed shortly after I took the screenshot above, which was also back in August:

WoFLXBz.png

Direct link: http://i.imgur.com/WoFLXBz.png


Price Range and Preferences:
- Lightweight, as spots here can be pretty small and you have to do a lot of moving around. Could be quick sessions, or might wind up in some state land where I hike from set to set. NJ will be exclusively fixed position calling, but I might tote this gun elsewhere that may not be (or I may just get another for that purpose, so if this is an issue then focus on fixed position calling exclusively).

- Looking for something high quality, durable, and reliable. I take good care of my gear, and I want to be the limiting factor at all times (i.e. accuracy/performance is never the gun's fault or even a question of the gun/scope integrity [barring some conditional disaster] :))

- Not a reloader, so I'll be shooting off the shelf ammo and could use some recommendations there too on where to start. Ammo cost isn't a huge concern, I'll take performance over cost savings here until I can get into reloading down the road. We don't shoot a ton, so it's not like I'll be ripping through rounds in a season.

- Pretty open price range wise, between gun/scope/work I'm ok with upwards of the $2000-2500 range. Obviously I probably don't need to spend that much, and I can stretch beyond it too if needed/wanted.



If you guys need any additional info at all, please let me know!
 
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Well this is pretty much where im at in deciding on a rifle for primarily fox with some minimal coyote use also....general consensus from the thread i started was either a .17remington or .17hornet. Im alittle leery of the hornet, even though i think it is the best suited round for my purposes.

apparently there has been problems with hornet ammo exploding or splitting the cases. This should now be fixed but ammo availability is scarce at best.
The next logicL choice is the .17rem. Seems to be plenty of ammo available. But ive been reading that rifles in that caliber are very picky on factory ammo.

i dont reload either so im at a crossroads on what to go with.

Ddont rule out a .17hmr though. They are excellent to about 125+ yds.

I dont know what im doing yet but hopefully that helps you in your decision.

there is no perfect solution unfortunately. Both have there drawbacks
 
Also .17cal bullets seem to be becoming scarce even if a reloading setup was purchased. I think the best solution with your given budget is to buy 2 rifles....1 for fox and 1 for coyote. Im trying to sell a savage .223 in the classifieds so i can start my new project. It would be an excellent coyote gun. But that diesnt help much for fox.
 
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My feeling it to lean towards something in the smaller .17 or .22 world, but as I've searched through this forums topics...there's certainly mixed opinions on the "effectiveness" of them for coyotes. With well placed shots (I read that as headshots), they are probably just fine, but offer little forgiveness outside of that. I wasn't even thinking of ammo scarcity...that would certainly be a problem.

As far as usage, I'm not overly concerned with pelt damage, so I'd rather err towards something that will definitely take down a yote versus being questionable in that respect.
 
Either the 17 hmr or the new 17 WSM if you are going to be shooting in populated areas and But if their are not that much houses and people around then I wouldnt be afraid to get a nice AR with you kind of price range
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Been reading on the .17Rem and it sounds like a pretty suitable round for yotes. Sounds like a key to it is using a heavier/harder bullet (i.e. not polymer tips)...and I'd imagine you can probably tune between speed and weight for ideal energy at your intended ranges (if I reloaded...instead I'd have to figure out what factory load would best accomplish what I'd need).
 
The .17 centerfires are .172, so you wouldn't make the .177 minimum.

Unless I'm reading the regs wrong...

A .204R would work though...hard to find a fox friendly bullet though.
 
Oh wow, yes...excellent point, you are correct. Thank you. So the .17 Rem is out (which is kind of surprising)

A friend of mine shoots a Savage M12 in .204R, one he said I should check out. One he said was a little on the heavy side, but doable and very accurate.
 
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Thanks Dooger, I've been researching/reading like crazy. I think the real "unknown" to me, or at least something of consideration that I haven't seen discussed much, is the whole residential aspect and relative bullet carry for certain cartridges and loads...if it should be a concern and if so, what are some perhaps commonly used/recommended/discussed calibers that should just plain be avoided? Or what factors should I consider/focus on in selecting a caliber and load that would lend itself to this type of environment?

Perhaps it's all relative and if you choose the right load, it's caliber agnostic. I wish I could say I'm comfortable with the caliber and bullet weight choices the state has chosen, but I'm not...rifle usage here isn't common, so I'd rather consult with the members on here that have done it for a long time and have the direct experience.
 
Well, you know the area better than us. I guess the only thing I'd say is that you'll want to stay away from FMJ's due to ricochet risks. As for noise, all the .22 centerfires will be quite "noisy". The .243 would be even louder.

I used to hunt the southern lower peninsula quite a bit. It was relatively populated in farm lands. We still used centerfire's, but were real careful of our shots. Not sure if you're in a more suburban area or what, but you do seemed concerned.

I'd give the .22 Hornet a hard look. Others here can answer a lot of questions on the round. Do a search too.
 
Yeah noise is fine, I'm thinking more about trajectory and safety considerations.
I'd imagine the farmlands I would hunt here would be similar to what you've described.

It's just that in NJ, you can have something like a farm field and then have developments on any side of it. So it can even be quasi-suburban. You will probably have woods between but it's still "beyond your target". When deer hunting (which is shotgun and muzzleloader [also a rifle obviously, but lesser velocity and LARGE bullets] only), you're generally shooting from an elevated position downward. In this case you'd be shooting flat across.

I'm thinking along the lines of trying to find the safest option in this type of environment that is still a good killing option. I really don't want the bullet to carry much beyond my max distance. Granted I'll be shooting at ground level and the bullet will drop. And groundhog hunting here is open to rifles (pretty sure any caliber)…so it's a similar situation that perhaps I'm just over thinking.
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FMJs are definitely out and might even be illegal here, certainly want to avoid the ricochet risks regardless.

I'll keep searching and see what else I can find!

Ultimately I'm just trying to find a good setup that will give me that "reach" and killing power that I just can't get with a shotgun, yet not be so overpower that it's dangerous in a populated area. And a big part of these questions just comes from a lack of knowledge and experience with rifles given NJ's regulations against using them for other game. So as much as I may be redundant asking a common question here, the conditions (at least mine) are of a different level of questioning and concern. I'd rather risk being repetitious than overlook something I could have asked for help on and gotten clarification on. The .172 vs .177 overlook is a great example on the lower end of things
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I shouldve read over the regs alittle i suppose. Id have to say a .22 hornet then. Minimal pelt damage, enough energy....good to 200yds and should cut through alittle brush. Id say thats the best bet.
 
Since the 17s are apparently out, I think you need a 22 hornet. I've got a CZ 527 and it's a dandy little rig. I don't reload either but it likes the factory 35 grain Hornady's v-max just fine. I'd say it's pretty lethal out to 200 or so on coyotes. I haven't shot a fox with it yet but I'd wager it's pretty fur friendly on em. Chrono's just over 3100.
 
I would call the F&G on the 17 reg. I would be willing to bet they don't know the diff between .172 and .177. Should be worded as 17 cal. It's not worded properly.
Give them a call,you might get the green light on 17's.
 
For a fox gun I'd try a 17HH , but I prefer shotgun.
Would love to field test fox and a 17HH/AH, but fox are thinner around here than 17HH ammo.
 
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