New Rem .17 Fireball Gun & Ammo

CatShooter

CatShooter

New member
I have ordered one of the .17 Fireball, Rem 700 CDL Ltd. Special Editions, and Rem says it'll be along in a few months...

... but they also say that they don't have ANY idea when bulk brass will be available for the hand loaders.

Can't have that. I'll go broke @ $1.15 a pop.

Does anyone know if the .17 Fireball can be made by just running a .221 case into a 17 FireBall FL die, or is it more problematic than that?

RCBS has a single "Form die" for $175 (from midway), and that seems a bit outrageous for one die.

Also... if they are made with the .221 case, do they need neck turning??

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i have a die from bullberry barrel co. that takes any .22 caliber down to .17 caliber or close to it it two stages. Its marked 1 on one end and 2 on the other and you just run the neck portion of the case in both ends of this die and then full length resize. I turned my necks but I am not sure if that is really nessasary but I would recommend annealing or you will get split necks from overworking the brass.I cannot remember but I think I paid 25.00 for the die.
 
Since the 17 Fireball is supposed to be the same or close to the same as the 17 Mach IV, Try using a Mach IV full length die on the 221 case after the inital 17 forming die is used as mentioned earlier.
The last hint at them being a little different came from someone trying to chamber a fired 17 Fireball in a Mach IV and it not going. Course with the Mach IV, different reamers will make different size chambers and chambering a fired round from one gun to another isn't a sure sign of anything even with factory spec stuff.
I've used the 221 fireball brass for my Mach IV but have had better longevity from Lake City 223 brass taken down to the correct size. Yeah it's a lot of work, but to me its worth it /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grinning-smiley-003.gif
Neck turning the 221 after getting down to 17 wasn't really necessary, but I always clean mine up so they are as close to each other as posible.
Same goes with primer hole reaming. do it with a 224 size reamer while it's still a 221 and you won't need the 17 size reamer.
Hope the 17 Fireball takes off and shoots well for you. My Mach IV is sure a lot of fun, and deadly /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grinning-smiley-003.gif
If you want, I might consider doing some of the initial necking down if we're not talking over 100 rounds or so /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused1.gif
It'd be more fun if you did it yourself though. Just a thought.
I'm fixing to get started on taking a bunch down for a 20 VarTarg so a few more won't be noticed /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grinning-smiley-006.gif
Later
DF2
 
Catshooter; let us know about that new .17 . Team green has me drooling for one too. They sound like they'll be awesome for built up areas and small farms.
 
Hey (CatShooter) can you post a pic of your rifle and please tell me/us how that rifle shoot. I have a rem 221 fireball and if there are good report about the 17 fireball might have to get one cause my 221FIREBALL need a little sis 17FIREBALL! Thanks!!!
 
Cat, I would not be jumping the gun, so to speak on brass for the .17 Fireball. Is this form die suppose to form .17 Fireball? Last time I spoke to Redding, they stated it would be 3 months before they could get dies made. I don't know of anyone else yet that has the reamer drawings to build the dies. Also, I would not hold my breath on getting a rifle in a few months either and factory ammo is still not being produced. A very small quanity will leave the factory 2/21/07 and that is already spoken for and not on the commerical end. Some may start to show up in very small amounts after that.

Everyone wants to jump on this new stuff too quick. It is much better to wait until everything is up and running well. Factory ammo as it comes out now is not going to be a predator round. It is loaded for PD's and such. Hopefully, the predator load will be out by fall predator opening. Everyone is gonna try to use it for something it was not loaded for yet and it will start getting a bad rap.

I am not sure about forming the .221's into .17's. The suttle differences between the Mach IV and .17 Fireball are small but seem to make a difference when checking them in a Mach IV chamber. We have seen them fit into one of our rifles but as mentioned a fired case will not chamber.

What we have seen is empty Fireball cases are slightly heaiver along with loaded rounds than the Mach IV. Both loaded rounds seem to have the same neck dia. Fireball shows .003 less taper to the shoulder. However, fired Fireball cases show neck .007 more and body .007 more than the Mach IV compared too.

Trying to make up your own load data, cases, etc.... probably can be done by experienced loaders but could still blow up a rifle in your face. Key here is be patient and let them work it all out first.
 
Hi Guys...

Thanks for your responses.

I wanted to have some brass ready when the rifle came in, so I could shoot it right away, but doesn't look like that's gonna happen.

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venatic

I went to the Bullberry website, and couldn't find the die you spoke about it... did you get it a long time ago?

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Droopyfur2

I have heard that the two are the same, and I have heard that they are not - I contacted Pacific Tool and Gauge (reamer makers) and they said that the two cartridges are close, but not the same. I don't think I want to make the cases out of .223, as this will be a PD, crow, and woodchuck rifle, and making a few thousand cases for a PD trip really sucks.

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SteveM

I spoke to Redding today (Wed), and they said they were waiting for tooling, and expected the dies to be going out in 6 to 8 weeks.

Spoke to RCBS about their form die, and the lady said to just buy the loaded ammo (??) weird response??

I think I'll take her word fore it, as I haven't bought RCBS stuff in many (MANY) years, and would rather not start now.

Spoke to Rem and they said that they are in full production for the .17 Fireball and they are shipping ammo right now (??) but I have gotten the hose job from their "Customer service" people before too.

I think the rifle will be in around April and I would like to load for it when it gets here, but it looks like it won't come together on time.

As to load data, I can work that up myself... I've been loading (and wildcatting) for more years than I like to think about, and I have loaded commercially and working up loads from scratch for this little puppy is no sweat.

I think the 17 Fireball will be a little light in the loafers for predators (yotes), at least the ones in in New England that can run over 50 pounds - we have an honest 70 pound yote shot up here in Connecticut (checked by the DEP).

The wildlife guys say it's cuz they bread with Canada wolves (or the local Doberman watch dogs). For those little 25 pound puppies in the south west, it might do OK.

I will post photos and let you guys know if it shoots worth a hoot, when it gets here.

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Catshooter yea it was about 5 yrs ago but they did not have it on their web at that time either. I would call and ask if they still sell those. I went and looked and I still have the hand scribbled directions they sent with it so I am sure it came from Bullberry along with a barrel and the Redding dies.
 
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I just got off the phone with Pat Ryan at Redding, and he says that the 17 Fireball is easy to make from the .221 Fireball... use a Redding #1 Mach VI form die, then run it through a 17 Fireball FL die.

Not a big issue at all.

(He also said dies are 10 to 16 weeks away /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif )

For loading, since the .17 Fireball is within a few thousandths of the Mach VI, loading data will translate right over, with normal cautions.
 
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Cat... Both loaded rounds seem to have the same neck dia. Fireball shows .003 less taper to the shoulder. However, fired Fireball cases show neck .007 more and body .007 more than the Mach IV compared too.



What was the neck diameter that you measured??

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CatShooter, If I am not too busy, tomorrow night I will try to post everything on the .17 Fireball for you and those interested. I have a rifle and ammo that came in today. Neck dia on the print drawing seems to be the same as the 17 Mach IV .20.
 
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CatShooter, If I am not too busy, tomorrow night I will try to post everything on the .17 Fireball for you and those interested. I have a rifle and ammo that came in today. Neck dia on the print drawing seems to be the same as the 17 Mach IV .20.



Did you find the data.

What is the case length, and loaded neck dia?

And the $64,000 question... how does it shoot?

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Hey guys, not getting home until 9 or 10 pm every night and it has rained everyday since I got the rifle and ammo as well. Sorry I have not got any info for you yet. Hopefully, it will be dry enough and the wind is not blowing 40 mph tomorrow for me to fire a shot or two to see what happens. Bare with me here.
 
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Hey guys, not getting home until 9 or 10 pm every night and it has rained everyday since I got the rifle and ammo as well.



That is no excuse!!! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif

You have responsibilities to SHOOTERS!!

I have found some things browsing... loaded neck is "supposed" to be 0.201", and case length is "supposed" to be 1.40" (same as MK4)... saw picture of both fired cases next to one another, and they are visually identical, so the differences are in the thousandths of an inch.

It should be no trouble for Mach IV shooters to use this brass with very minor work.

OK, Steve... inquiring minds want to know /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif

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Ok Cat, I will try to get you some info here.

This is the VSF .17 Fireball rifle

MVC-011S.jpg


This is the barrel markings.

MVC-012S.jpg


This is a .17 Fireball on the left and 221 Fireball on the right.

MVC-013S.jpg


Close up of .17 Fireball L and .221 Fireball R.

MVC-006S-1.jpg


Neck average of the factory ammo measured .200

Did not get a chance to shoot any today. Hope to get something shot tomorrow for you Cat.
 
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