Thinkin about a new rifle in 22-250. I was thinking maybe a Remington 700 but a gunsmith friend of mine said that he was hearing a lot of varmint hunters are buying Sako. I don't know much about Sako. Anybody here had any experience with them? Any input appreciated. Thanks in advance.
New Rifle-Rem 700 or Sako
- Thread starter Bubba101
- Start date
coyotekillerNE
New member
Sako rifles are possibly the best "factory" rifle made. You can't really even compare it to a Rem 700. It's like comparing a Ford Mustang to an Aston Martin DB9.
Hopefully someday I'll be able to afford a whole stable of Sako rifles.
Hopefully someday I'll be able to afford a whole stable of Sako rifles.
coyotekillerNE
New member
Oh, and yeah...buy the Sako if you can afford it.
Anton Chigurh
Member
Originally Posted By: 2muchgunUntil somebody figures out how to twist a 22-250 properly, brand don't matter.
I love my Sakos, and my 700s. But in this particular case, I'd buy a 700, install a custom tube with the right damm twist in it, and be at or below the cost of a Sako..........
I like this idea as well, but I also haven't owned a sako.
2MG, what would be your recommendation on twist and what would you tell Rem to make as their standard for factory 22-250s?
I recently did a 22-250, and I mulled this over for a while before ordering a barrel. I ended up on 10 twist, and so far like it. Only 60 rds thru the gun so far, it seems to shoot 50 vmax, 55 nosler BT, and 69 SMK all very well (only shot at 100 yds)
I love my Sakos, and my 700s. But in this particular case, I'd buy a 700, install a custom tube with the right damm twist in it, and be at or below the cost of a Sako..........
I like this idea as well, but I also haven't owned a sako.
2MG, what would be your recommendation on twist and what would you tell Rem to make as their standard for factory 22-250s?
I recently did a 22-250, and I mulled this over for a while before ordering a barrel. I ended up on 10 twist, and so far like it. Only 60 rds thru the gun so far, it seems to shoot 50 vmax, 55 nosler BT, and 69 SMK all very well (only shot at 100 yds)
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Coyotejunki
Well-known member
I was told that the 22-250 was designed around a 40 grain bullet, so the popular 1-14 twist was ideal. Now days with so many more choices and better components, I really am shocked that they aren't a 1-12 minimum. Savage does have the option for a faster twist, too bad the really nice rifles like Sako haven't climb up on the wagon for this century.
Getting a donor Rem and a rebarrel wound probably be the way I would go too, well I guess I did already.
I went with a Shilen 1-12 on a 22-250 AI.
Getting a donor Rem and a rebarrel wound probably be the way I would go too, well I guess I did already.
Thanks for the input. Doing a web search I realized that Sako also makes Tikka. The T3 specifically has great reviews and seems to be about half the price as a full blown Sako putting it more in line with say a Remington 700. That might be an option if I decide not to put a 2nd mortagage on the house. Would still like to hear what anybody here has to say as I trust your thoughts more than a review on some website.
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IMO....... New production 700's are not what they used to be. I think the Tikka quality is far better off the shelf than a 700. The bolt in my Tikka is the smoothest I've run, the trigger is amazing, and MOA guaranteed. The only problem I have with my Tikka is that what you buy is pretty much what you get...there isn't much aftermarket support for them. But, if you're looking for an out of the box gun, the Tikkas and Savages are pretty hard to beat.
If you want to mess with stocks, barrels, or any other part you can imagine then it's pretty hard to go wrong with a 700. You can get any part you want and every gunsmith knows how to make them shoot well. The 700's are an awesome rig when they are done right, but I don't think "out of the box" they are anything special by any means.
...just some guy on the internets opinion, so it's not worth much
If you want to mess with stocks, barrels, or any other part you can imagine then it's pretty hard to go wrong with a 700. You can get any part you want and every gunsmith knows how to make them shoot well. The 700's are an awesome rig when they are done right, but I don't think "out of the box" they are anything special by any means.
...just some guy on the internets opinion, so it's not worth much
2muchgun
New member
I'll not get into the whole deal on why I don't like Tikkas here. Or why I do not prefer slow twists in the 22-250. If you like/prefer them, that is your prerogative.
But a 22-250 on a long action does not appeal to me one bit. That is what you get with a Tikka, a long action which utilizes a bolt stop. One of the many cost-cutter features of the Tikka rifle.........
But a 22-250 on a long action does not appeal to me one bit. That is what you get with a Tikka, a long action which utilizes a bolt stop. One of the many cost-cutter features of the Tikka rifle.........
Anton Chigurh
Member
I have a Tikka T3 lite ss in 223 and like it. I can's speak to other Tikkas, as I've never held one.
So take this for what it's worth, one guy's opinion on one gun.
I haven't done a thing to it other than mount a scope in LW Talley's. It shoots well, weighs like 7.5 lbs scoped and loaded, and seems to have a very smooth bore than cleans up well. Smooth action and good trigger, and a detachable bottom mag, which is nice. It's not pretty, just a light utility rig made to carry.
Wouldn't be my first choice if I thought I'd likely want to customize or tune one up later. If so, back to Rem 700
So take this for what it's worth, one guy's opinion on one gun.
I haven't done a thing to it other than mount a scope in LW Talley's. It shoots well, weighs like 7.5 lbs scoped and loaded, and seems to have a very smooth bore than cleans up well. Smooth action and good trigger, and a detachable bottom mag, which is nice. It's not pretty, just a light utility rig made to carry.
Wouldn't be my first choice if I thought I'd likely want to customize or tune one up later. If so, back to Rem 700
Tikka does use some cost-cutter features...but they don't carry a Sako price tag either. The cost cutter features are a deal breaker to some and others could care less. When I think remington 700 my brain automatically starts thinking oooooooh in a mcmillan with a shilen or maybe a brux with a leupold vx3 etc etc etc.
Bottom line is there are LOTS of good factory options and just as many custom options. Do tons of research and play with as many as you can get your hands on. And if your "gunsmith friend" is making a profit off his advice.....take his advice with a grain of salt. No offense to you or him, but if you don't know much about guns...he's selling guns and making a profit...he might push you into buying what makes him more money. That may not be the case at all though, just something to keep in mind. I'd have a hard time chasing coyotes with a sako just like I'd have a hard time buying a $3,000 over under to hunt pheasants. It's gonna get dropped and beat up at some point. I'd rather my guns shoot than look pretty.
Bottom line is there are LOTS of good factory options and just as many custom options. Do tons of research and play with as many as you can get your hands on. And if your "gunsmith friend" is making a profit off his advice.....take his advice with a grain of salt. No offense to you or him, but if you don't know much about guns...he's selling guns and making a profit...he might push you into buying what makes him more money. That may not be the case at all though, just something to keep in mind. I'd have a hard time chasing coyotes with a sako just like I'd have a hard time buying a $3,000 over under to hunt pheasants. It's gonna get dropped and beat up at some point. I'd rather my guns shoot than look pretty.
Winny Fan
New member
Originally Posted By: kpkieferTikka does use some cost-cutter features...but they don't carry a Sako price tag either. The cost cutter features are a deal breaker to some and others could care less. When I think remington 700 my brain automatically starts thinking oooooooh in a mcmillan with a shilen or maybe a brux with a leupold vx3 etc etc etc.
Bottom line is there are LOTS of good factory options and just as many custom options. Do tons of research and play with as many as you can get your hands on. And if your "gunsmith friend" is making a profit off his advice.....take his advice with a grain of salt. No offense to you or him, but if you don't know much about guns...he's selling guns and making a profit...he might push you into buying what makes him more money. That may not be the case at all though, just something to keep in mind. I'd have a hard time chasing coyotes with a sako just like I'd have a hard time buying a $3,000 over under to hunt pheasants. It's gonna get dropped and beat up at some point. I'd rather my guns shoot than look pretty.
A very good non-emotional post. Especially the "play with as many as you can get your hands on" suggestions. There are numerous options available in all of the makes mentioned, and none are perfect as well as none are junk. What one guy likes might not be the next guy's choice. That doesn't make one choice good an another choice bad, except to the self appointed expert who maybe got ignored with your choice.
When asking and taking opinions from strangers, you have to realize that the internet is full of experts with agendas and negative comments about something they don't own for whatever reasons. None of these self-appointed experts ever complain very loudly about what they do own. It's not good karma or a good internet reputation booster to do so. Try to literally handle all of the options you are interested in and then spend your money where you think it is best spent.
I own Sakos, Remingtons, Tikkas, and a bunch of others not mentioned here, and none are as bad as some would like you to think for various reasons, and none are as good as some would like you to think for other reasons. They're all factory rifles with + and - features based on your personal wants and needs and how much you want to spend.
As for the always popular "plastic" issue, all factory rifles have well applied plastic parts depending on the make and model you're looking at. Today's "plastics" are very durable.
When considering the barrel twist issue, that too is just an opinion. The 22-250 has thrived for years on 14" twist barrels for best velocity versus pressure concepts, with less stress on 55 and below grain bullets, which are what the 22-250 built its long reputation on. If you want to go to heavier bullets in a relatively small case for whatever reasons, there are + and - issues there also. Most of those issues can easily be solved by a bigger cartridge and maybe a slightly bigger bore diameter like .243/6MM with the 22-250 comparison that in real life will have zero impact on whether you hit or miss a coyote inside 400 yards. But some like to do their own thing and fling big bullets from small cases with the resulting +/- issues. To each his own.
I hope you find what you are looking for. Any of what you are looking for and/or what has been suggested will work if it's your choice. If you let an expert tell you what you should buy based on a list of just his preferences, you might not be as happy with the choice. And in the end he could care less about your choice unless he can create a huge "fact-filled" fuss over what you didn't buy that he expertly suggested just to highlight himself and boost his personal opinion of himself.
Bottom line is there are LOTS of good factory options and just as many custom options. Do tons of research and play with as many as you can get your hands on. And if your "gunsmith friend" is making a profit off his advice.....take his advice with a grain of salt. No offense to you or him, but if you don't know much about guns...he's selling guns and making a profit...he might push you into buying what makes him more money. That may not be the case at all though, just something to keep in mind. I'd have a hard time chasing coyotes with a sako just like I'd have a hard time buying a $3,000 over under to hunt pheasants. It's gonna get dropped and beat up at some point. I'd rather my guns shoot than look pretty.
A very good non-emotional post. Especially the "play with as many as you can get your hands on" suggestions. There are numerous options available in all of the makes mentioned, and none are perfect as well as none are junk. What one guy likes might not be the next guy's choice. That doesn't make one choice good an another choice bad, except to the self appointed expert who maybe got ignored with your choice.
When asking and taking opinions from strangers, you have to realize that the internet is full of experts with agendas and negative comments about something they don't own for whatever reasons. None of these self-appointed experts ever complain very loudly about what they do own. It's not good karma or a good internet reputation booster to do so. Try to literally handle all of the options you are interested in and then spend your money where you think it is best spent.
I own Sakos, Remingtons, Tikkas, and a bunch of others not mentioned here, and none are as bad as some would like you to think for various reasons, and none are as good as some would like you to think for other reasons. They're all factory rifles with + and - features based on your personal wants and needs and how much you want to spend.
As for the always popular "plastic" issue, all factory rifles have well applied plastic parts depending on the make and model you're looking at. Today's "plastics" are very durable.
When considering the barrel twist issue, that too is just an opinion. The 22-250 has thrived for years on 14" twist barrels for best velocity versus pressure concepts, with less stress on 55 and below grain bullets, which are what the 22-250 built its long reputation on. If you want to go to heavier bullets in a relatively small case for whatever reasons, there are + and - issues there also. Most of those issues can easily be solved by a bigger cartridge and maybe a slightly bigger bore diameter like .243/6MM with the 22-250 comparison that in real life will have zero impact on whether you hit or miss a coyote inside 400 yards. But some like to do their own thing and fling big bullets from small cases with the resulting +/- issues. To each his own.
I hope you find what you are looking for. Any of what you are looking for and/or what has been suggested will work if it's your choice. If you let an expert tell you what you should buy based on a list of just his preferences, you might not be as happy with the choice. And in the end he could care less about your choice unless he can create a huge "fact-filled" fuss over what you didn't buy that he expertly suggested just to highlight himself and boost his personal opinion of himself.
tripod3
New member
Ive had rifles in Remington, Winchester, Browning, Savage, Tikka, Sako, CZ, Sauer, New England, and a few others that elude me. Only regretting selling one Winchester in my life.
Many were sold or traded as they weren't "it" for me until a couple Tikka models impressed me. Then Sako Became "it" in so many ways for me.
Some guys love getting accessories and making a new gun out of the already new gun they just bought off the shelf. Nothing wrong with that, for them.
Tikka aftermarket stocks, triggers, shrouds, lugs, magazines, rings, maybe more available.
Me, I like it ready to roll out of the box and I'm perfectly happy with a 14 twist barrel for .22-250.
Many were sold or traded as they weren't "it" for me until a couple Tikka models impressed me. Then Sako Became "it" in so many ways for me.
Some guys love getting accessories and making a new gun out of the already new gun they just bought off the shelf. Nothing wrong with that, for them.
Tikka aftermarket stocks, triggers, shrouds, lugs, magazines, rings, maybe more available.
Me, I like it ready to roll out of the box and I'm perfectly happy with a 14 twist barrel for .22-250.
The Famous Grouse
New member
Getting back to the original post, there's really very little comparison, because the two rifles are in completely different leagues and price points. As another member pointed out with the car analogy, they are completely different rifles and the higher price point of the Sako means better build, fit, and finish, and quality control.
Just leaving the question as asked: New Sako vs a new Remington 700, it's Sako every time. The Sako is refined, elegant, durable, and among those with actual experience, Sako's reputation for tack-driving out of box performance and long-term durability cannot be matched. You only have to look at the prices that used Sakos fetch to confirm that they are built to last.
Now the RemmyHeads are going to say, I've got grandpa's Remington from 1968 that shoots great, blah, blah, blah, I say good for you. That's your grandpappy's Remington and nothing to do with what you get off the rack today. Which does not in any way stack up to what a new Sako offers.
I know the subject of the Tikka stirs some up. I've long suspected this is mostly envy because the Tikka is what Remington fans would LIKE Remington to be. Nitpick the design of the Tikka all you want with armchair theories and amateur engineering. The bottom line is that Tikka's produce the results time after time.
I got a Tikka .22-250 the first year they were available in the USA after seeing and hearing them raved about in Europe for a couple of years. I had mine about 5 years before they became commonly known and talked about over here when some big chain stores finally picked up the line.
I'm well over 2000 rounds out of a Tikka .22-250 and it's still a varmint's worst nightmare. I can detect no change in the excellent accuracy from the day it was new, despite the fact that this summer I will most likely pass 3000 rounds fired.
How would that compare to a Remington? Who cares. Bottom line is the Tikka did it, so why would I want to mess with success?
Grouse
Just leaving the question as asked: New Sako vs a new Remington 700, it's Sako every time. The Sako is refined, elegant, durable, and among those with actual experience, Sako's reputation for tack-driving out of box performance and long-term durability cannot be matched. You only have to look at the prices that used Sakos fetch to confirm that they are built to last.
Now the RemmyHeads are going to say, I've got grandpa's Remington from 1968 that shoots great, blah, blah, blah, I say good for you. That's your grandpappy's Remington and nothing to do with what you get off the rack today. Which does not in any way stack up to what a new Sako offers.
I know the subject of the Tikka stirs some up. I've long suspected this is mostly envy because the Tikka is what Remington fans would LIKE Remington to be. Nitpick the design of the Tikka all you want with armchair theories and amateur engineering. The bottom line is that Tikka's produce the results time after time.
I got a Tikka .22-250 the first year they were available in the USA after seeing and hearing them raved about in Europe for a couple of years. I had mine about 5 years before they became commonly known and talked about over here when some big chain stores finally picked up the line.
I'm well over 2000 rounds out of a Tikka .22-250 and it's still a varmint's worst nightmare. I can detect no change in the excellent accuracy from the day it was new, despite the fact that this summer I will most likely pass 3000 rounds fired.
How would that compare to a Remington? Who cares. Bottom line is the Tikka did it, so why would I want to mess with success?
Grouse