New Savage in .204 - Help please

L

Llamadude

New member
I got my new Savage in .204 and am having some problems. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif

First, I can't seem to get a very close group. I can get 2 or 3 shots at about a 1" group, but then I am getting flyers out to about 4 inches. I am shooting out of a vise, so its not shooter error. Right now, I am using 26.4 grains of H4895 under 40 gr berger bullets. I shot a box of Federals with 39gr Sierra Blitzkings and had the same problem. What should I try next? Lighter bullet? Different powder? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif

Second, when I work the bolt and the next bullet is coming from the right side of the magazine, the bullet doesnt go into the chamber. The tip hits beside and will not go in. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused1.gif Do I need to contact Savage or am I doing something wrong? Never had this problem with any of my other guns.

Thanks for the help guys.
 
Sounds like a problem with the rifle itself not ammo. Since it is new I would call Savage (do not tell them your haveing problems with handloads since it was doing the same thing with factory ammo what they don't know won't hurt any thing) It really sounds like a combination of problems involving the feed ramp and barrel/action bedding. If your shooting from a vise shooter error is eliminated I would check the mounts and rings though, I would also check the action screws I have a Model 10 that they come loose every so often. I can tell when that is happening because my groups start getting a lot larger.
 
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Sounds like a problem with the rifle itself not ammo. Since it is new I would call Savage (do not tell them your haveing problems with handloads since it was doing the same thing with factory ammo what they don't know won't hurt any thing) It really sounds like a combination of problems involving the feed ramp and barrel/action bedding. If your shooting from a vise shooter error is eliminated I would also check the action screws I have a Model 10 that they come loose every so often. I can tell when that is happening because my groups start getting a lot larger.



I've also seen this with a Savage rifle right out of the box. Gave it a good twist and the grouping problem dissapeared.
 
You should always take a new gun out of the stock and put a good coat of gun oil on it before shooting in the places where you can't oil it after the stock is on.

Then check to see if the barrel is actually free floated if it's supposed to be. Follow up by adjusting the trigger, making sure all the screws are tight, and checking all the scope mounting screws in both the bases and the rings.

I also like to lap the scope rings at this time. I don't torque the action screws, but some do. I just make sure they are tight.

If you don't have a lapping tool then a piece of one inch steel rod 12 inches long and some valve lapping compound works fine. Drill a hole in one end to put in a screwdriver so it's easy to turn.

A good cleaning including the chamber is next and Savages or any new gun dissembling the bolt and cleaning all the grease out is a good idea. I use JB's non-embedding bore cleaner on a patch wrapped on a worn out brush and do a hundred strokes with that on any new barrel. This basically laps and cleans at the same time. Now it's time to shoot it.

I'm using Alliant 10X with Remington cases, CCI Bench rest primers and Hornedy 32 and 40 grain bullets in my CZ 204 with great results, but there are several good powders out there.

I'm running 26.6 grains behind the 32 and 26.2 behind the 40 grainer in a 25.5 inch barrel and getting near factory velocities. If you do try that load I suggest starting at least 1 grain under and working up in .1 grain increments.

My five shot groups at a hundred yards from the bench rest can be covered with a dime and off the sit down shooting sticks can be covered with a Nickel. Savages have a very good rep for very very accurate rifles. Sure hope you get your problems solved. If none of the above works I'd sure give Savage a call or email, their customer service is tops I hear.

Here's a good place to look for loads and more info on your 204.

http://www.204ruger.com/
 
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If you have no signs of pressure I would keep increasing your powder by .2 grains thats 2/10's of a grain, wanted to make that clear watching for signs of pressure. Be sure you're using one of the available "thick cup" primers; two I use are (1)CCI BR-4's and (2) Rem No. 7 1/2's. I shoot 40gr Nosler BT's and H4895 but also have tried the Burgers in my Savage 12VLP.
Here's the Berger group:
Bergers40HPBT.jpg


Here's my last group with the Nosler's (The targets are different sizes as you can see.):
P2100012.jpg

Normally I don't list powder weights but I have no pressure signs at 27.6 grains of H4895 and it gives me 3880fps with great groups. So I can only immagine how much slower your 40gr Berger is going. Again I stress slowly working you way up.
Hope this helps! Good luck! Have fun! Be safe!!
GAJoe
 
I agree with making sure the action screws are tight. My brand new model 12 was giving 1 1/2 inch groups right out of the box until I noticed the action screw was loose.
All of a sudden I got 1/2 inch 5 shot groups from this 223.

Good Luck
 
Don't worry yet. The feeding problem needs fixed - severe damage to a bullet tip could cause problems. Try ejecting some without firing and examine them. Gun vises can push the free floated barrel against the stock even if it is floated. Action screws do matter. I oil mine on the underside well and then leave it together. I think I always tighten the one and snug the other. Was there a pattern to the fliers? Wood or plastic stock.
 
I dont know what "signs of pressure" would be. Are there signs of pressure that I would see that wouldnt be actual damage to the gun?

I removed the stock and oiled everything. I didnt notice anything loose except one of the scope ring screws was about 1/4 turn loose. It was still snug, but I tightened it up a little more.

Is the action screw the one on the bolt? If so, it is tight.

I have a synthetic stock.

No real pattern to the flyers. One off to the left and high, another other straight to the right, another low and to the right.

I will check to make sure the gun vise isnt putting pressure on the magazine or pushing the barrel against the stock. It has foam rubber so I dont think it was doing any of that. The feed problem happens either in or out of the vise and I believe the flyers are too because I shot a few off a bipod as well.

Thanks for all the help guys.
 
I have a Savage 10 and had feed troubles like you mention. The lips of the mag weren't right, causing jam while loading. I tried adjusting the lips and then the round would jump out of the action. After a few back and forth adjustments and just making things worse I ordered a new magazine box from Brownell's. It was kinda tricky to remove the bad one, the new one went in fairly easy. All was done with lots of pointers from savageshooters.com members.

peace.
unloaded
 

One pressure sign is a flat primer. Another sign of pressure is a bolt that is hard to open that wasn't hard to close.

Be sure to take a break from reloading and invest the time to learn about it to have a safe hobby to enjoy for years to come. Good Luck! Above all be safe!
GAJoe
 
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I removed the stock and oiled everything. I didnt notice anything loose except one of the scope ring screws was about 1/4 turn loose. It was still snug, but I tightened it up a little more.





I would think that would of been the problem, but that's my guess.

What dies are you running?

Neck or FL the casings?
 
Not sure how many rounds your up to but take time to clean the copper buildup from the bore. After the first 100 on a new barrel it can build up and needs a good cleaning. Use Sweets or something similar to completely remover the copper. After a few hundred down the pipe and proper cleaning it should settle in nicely.

The feed issue could be the mag like Joe stated or a ramp issue. Feed it super slow several times and observe where its hanging up. Sometimes its obvious with a closer exam.

Good Luck with it, Dave
 
Superseal 110, I have the Hornady full length dies.

Grunter, I only have 36 rounds thru the pipe to date. On the feed issue, it turns out that it is only the last shell in the mag that is hanging up. I was looking at it a little more this morning as I was considering trying to shoot a coyote with it. I ended up going with the old trusty .243 Ruger (See the predator hunting forum). I think the spring may be hanging up and not giving full pressure. I will look at it closer. Thanks for the advice.
 
Small boltface Savages stagger box mag. are notorious for feeding problems. Most have to do with the weak spring. I have to strech mine out every time I take it apart. Two fixes, replace the leaf spring with two coil springs one in front one in back, some have been using elongated coil springs from an AR mag and cutting them down.

AWS
 
at the beginning of most reloading manuals they give a speel on the how to of handloading..... read it
Most often they go thru a list of pressure signs and what to look for and how to proceed
Handloading is fun and rewarding but it aint worth loosing your head over
Again alot of sage advice from other posters if I have gone over it again please know that you need to have a singleminded goal when handloading and have no distractions have fun and for gods sake be carefull /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grinning-smiley-003.gif
 
OK, I changed 3 variables to see what would happen.

1. Shortened C.O.L. by about 1/32.
Result = less accurate.
2. Increased powder by .2 grains.
Result = couldnt even stay on the paper.
3. Tried Nosler 32 gr bullets
result =
IMG_5258.jpg


I know these arent great groups, but one is 1-1/8, one is 7/8 and the other is probably shooter error. Probably not going to get a whole lot better with me behind the gun. Also, the Nosler had no feeding issues.

Now I have a REAL dilema. I have a .204 that will shoot 32 gr bullets just fine and I can't get a 40gr to work. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/angry-smiley-055.gif

It's great that It is grouping up, but I have concerns. Is the 32 gr bullet too light for coyotes? Also, I am concerned about the construction of the Nosler. I really don't want to shoot a fragmenting bullet. I was blowing big holes in the coyotes with my .243 with 58 gr. V-Max bullets and that was one of the reasons for wanting to go with Bergers. They dont want to load. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mad.gif

I am now going to increase C.O.L and decrease my powder to try to get the 40 Berger to shoot/load. I guess I could try the 35 gr. Bergers, but I am afraid they won't load any better than the 40's. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif
 
UPDATE.

Shot Nosler 40 gr. bullets out of the .204 this weekend. All is well. Got sub-MOA groups and I think I can probably tighten them up even more with a little experimentation. The Noslers (both 32 and 40 gr) loaded and fed through the gun without incident.

One more question. Anyone had any experience with the noslers and how they do on pelt damage? Reducing pelt damage is why I wanted to go with Bergers, but they just don't shoot in this gun.
 
Either of the Noslers will be fine as far as fur damage.
The 32 grain bullet will work on coyotes, some may not agree, but I know several coyotes that are unable to vote on the issue.
 


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