New Social Security Checks

seeknulfind

New member
Below is email passed on to me. I have not verified anything in the email. Personally, I have always hated Social Security, even before I was old enough to "contribute". I will be surprised if I am ever able to receive a nickel from it. If I do happen to be around then and the system still exists, it would not surprise me one bit if it wasn't enough to buy a week's groceries. Of course, since I do not expect to be able to "retire", my "income" will necessarily shrink my "benefit" even more.

My purpose for this post is to pass along the email and, of course, add my own rant to the topic.

God bless,



Quote:
A woman died at age 65. She paid into the system for almost 50 years and collected NOTHING?

Keep in mind all the people that die every year that were paying into the system and got nothing!

And these governmental morons mismanaged the money and stole from the system, so that it's now going broke. BEAUTIFUL!

And they have the audacity to call today's seniors "vultures" in an attempt to cover their ineptitude. DISGRACEFUL!

The real reason for renaming our Social Security payments is so the government can claim that all those social security recipients are receiving entitlements thus putting them in the same case as welfare, food stamp recipients.

THIS IS WORTH THE FEW MINUTES IT TAKES TO READ AND DIGEST!

F.Y.I. By changing the name of SS contributions it gives them a means to refute this program in the future. It's free money for the government to spend under this guise.

It is really sad to think that most people will just roll over and accept this as if there is nothing that can be done, but maybe there is if we make a little noise about our displeasure with what they have done to today's retirees. I will pass this on!!!!!

The Social Security check is now (or soon will be) referred to as a *Federal Benefit Payment*?

I'll be part of the one percent to forward this. I am forwarding it because it touches a nerve in me, and I hope it will in you.

Please keep passing it on until everyone in our country has read it.

The government is now referring to our Social Security checks as a "Federal Benefit Payment."

This isn't a benefit. It is our money paid out of our earned income! Not only did we all contribute to Social
Security but our employers did too. It totaled 15% of our income before taxes.

If you averaged $30K per year over your working life, that's close to $180,000 invested in Social Security.

If you calculate the future value of your monthly investment in social security ($375/month, including both you and your employers contributions) at a meager 1% interest rate compounded monthly, after 40 years of working you'd have more than $1.3+ million dollars saved!

This is your personal investment. Upon retirement, if you took out only 3% per year, you'd receive $39,318 per year, or $3,277 per month.

That's almost three times more than today's average Social Security benefit of $1,230 per month, according to the Social Security Administration. (Google it – it's a fact).

And your retirement fund would last more than 33 years (until you're 98 if you retire at age 65)! I can only imagine how much better most average-income people could live in retirement if our government had just invested our money in low-risk interest-earning accounts.

Instead, the folks in Washington pulled off a bigger *Ponzi scheme* than Bernie Madoff ever did. (Lyndon Johnson)

They took our money and used it elsewhere. They forgot (oh yes, they knew) that it was OUR money they were taking. They didn't have a referendum to ask us if we wanted to lend the money to them. And they didn't pay interest on the debt they assumed. And recently they've told us that the money won't support us for very much longer. (Isn't it funny that they NEVER say this about welfare payments?)

But is it our fault they misused our investments? And now, to add insult to injury, they're calling it a *benefit*, as if
we never worked to earn every penny of it. Just because they borrowed the money, doesn't mean that our investments were a charity!

Let's take a stand. We have earned our right to Social Security and Medicare. Demand that our legislators bring some sense into our government.

Find a way to keep Social Security and Medicare going for the sake of that 92% of our population who need it. Then call it what it is: Our Earned Retirement Income.

99% of people won't forward this. Will you?

You can bet I WILL!!!
 
I'm collecting disability and am getting all most exactly the average amount. Buddy of mine retired from a police department at age 48 I believe, they don't pay SS just retirement to the police union. He's collecting a little over 6K a month.Yep SS is a scam.
 
Originally Posted By: vahunterI'm collecting disability and am getting all most exactly the average amount. Buddy of mine retired from a police department at age 48 I believe, they don't pay SS just retirement to the police union. He's collecting a little over 6K a month.Yep SS is a scam.

what is the average disability amount per month?
 
If we are going to eventually lose it then lets do away with the ss tax. When you are self employed that tax is what gets you the most. And for all of those who paid into it and are drawing it then they should be able to continue for their lives. I work both for myself and for others and that ss tax really sucks. Especially when i work all year or most of for myself and then have to file on a 1040 only!!
 
I would have to believe that SS has saved some peoples butts!
Anything is better than nothing, and I would assume that a certain percentage of those who had/have 401k's etc., would blow all the money in it and have nothing left to live on.
If Govt. had left SS as it was initially set up there would probably be plenty of money in it, but as usual they skimmed from it, changed the rules, and now it's becoming insolvent!
I believe I mentioned this before, how can someone who contributed almost nothing be able to draw a SS check at age 62 based on a spouses monthly SS! The working spouse would get about $1400 @ 62, the homemaker who contributed to SS for app 1 year receives app. $700 a month in addition to the $1400 that her husband would receive.
What happened to the 10 yr. 40 quarter requirement to be able to collect SS, looks like that does not apply in all cases!
 
Quote: I have not verified anything in the email.

Why would you pass along something you haven't bothered to verify? Especially something that is so obviously full of holes and so easy to check?

Quote:If you calculate the future value of your monthly investment in social security ($375/month, including both you and your employers contributions) at a meager 1% interest rate compounded monthly, after 40 years of working you'd have more than $1.3+ million dollars saved!

That's a bunch of hooey.

$375 a month, for 40 years, at only 1% gets to $1.3M? How does anyone see that and take it seriously? It doesn't pass a basic quick glance sniff test. It's just obvious nonsense. You don't need a calculator to see that.

Hundreds of calculators are available online to compute investment return though. So I just ran the numbers through a couple of them.

$375 a month for 40 years at 1% is only $221K. If you keep it going for 100 years you are still only $771K.

To get $1.3M with $375 a month for 40 years is over 8% return. If you ignore inflation. At only 1% it needs to be $2,200 per month to reach $1.3M in 40 years.

Most of the numbers in that email wrong too.

- DAA
 
Originally Posted By: seeknulfindBelow is email passed on to me. I have not verified anything in the email.

God bless,


Keep throwing unverified crap against the wall and maybe something will stick.
 
The original purpose of Social Security was never to supply a "Living Wage", but to supplement the variables in savings earnings, to cover necessary expenses such as health insurance, etc...

Yes, had congress and liberal welfare kept their hands off of it, it is a viable supplement to an individual saving plan, but not a replacement for one...

In earlier years, public safety, and a couple of other fields, were given the option contributing to SS or establishing their own retirement programs...Some worked out well, some not so much...

It's the congressional changeS that have screwed up many of those...For instance, a person that has worked 15-20 years in the private sector and then converts over to one of the separated fields above and retires from that can potentially lose their benefit that they would have received from SS or if they claim SS they get penalized by their retirement plan...

Case in point, a Teacher that previously worked for 20 years while obtaining a teaching degree part time and then becomes a Teacher, upon retirement loses the SS benefit in most cases...Police Officers that retire and then go to work in the private sector usually wind up losing a percentage of their pension benefit, or a percentage of their SS benefit...
 
Originally Posted By: DAAQuote: I have not verified anything in the email.

Why would you pass along something you haven't bothered to verify? Especially something that is so obviously full of holes and so easy to check?

Quote:If you calculate the future value of your monthly investment in social security ($375/month, including both you and your employers contributions) at a meager 1% interest rate compounded monthly, after 40 years of working you'd have more than $1.3+ million dollars saved!

That's a bunch of hooey.

$375 a month, for 40 years, at only 1% gets to $1.3M? How does anyone see that and take it seriously? It doesn't pass a basic quick glance sniff test. It's just obvious nonsense. You don't need a calculator to see that.

Hundreds of calculators are available online to compute investment return though. So I just ran the numbers through a couple of them.

$375 a month for 40 years at 1% is only $221K. If you keep it going for 100 years you are still only $771K.

To get $1.3M with $375 a month for 40 years is over 8% return. If you ignore inflation. At only 1% it needs to be $2,200 per month to reach $1.3M in 40 years.

Most of the numbers in that email wrong too.

- DAA


Quote:My purpose for this post is to pass along the email and, of course, add my own rant to the topic.

Quote:Originally Posted By: seeknulfind

Below is email passed on to me. I have not verified anything in the email.

God bless,

Originally Posted By: fw707

Keep throwing unverified crap against the wall and maybe something will stick.

Same to you FW. (But, thank you for including my blessing in your quote!)

The figures are unverified for a couple of reasons. Seeing as my workdays take up 11 hours of my time, I have precious little to quibble over nickles and dimes, especially those that do not matter one whit.

For those of you who are either lacking the mental acuity to reason this out or who prefer to attack someone rather than add anything that even resembles some sort of real contribution - it is the principle of the subject that is important, not the details.

DAA, Here is some further clarification as you took the time to do the math and refute the numbers. You are right, the numbers are fantasy. The problem with exercises like the one in the email is they only work IF you follow the author's math and there are no guarantees then either. The fact is, when it comes to financial calculations the numbers are nearly impossible to add up accurately because everything changes over time. Forty years ago, an expectation of a 1% return was actually far too conservative. Today, maybe not so much but it is still pitiful.

The topic of retirement planning is not within the scope of this post. Individual results will vary.

Again, the numbers are not the point - it is like yelling "Squirrel!" in a crowded forum. Furthermore, I was of the impression that the members here are savvy enough see past that.

By the way, for those who MAY be interested, consider the new terminology in light of Orwell's "newspeak".

For those of you who need a bit of extra help... A man wrote a book under the name of George Orwell called "1984". While the book was and is fictional, (meaning it is not intended to be taken as something that really happened or really will happen) some people have drawn certain parallels between the ideas in the book and what is happening today. (By this I mean some things in the book kind of resemble some things happening around us.) In the book, there was this thing called "NEWSPEAK" (as in NEW SPEAK). The intent of "NEWSPEAK" was to change the meaning of things so they meant something entirely different - sometimes the exact opposite. If you still don't get it, do not worry. Someday it may actually be accepted that "Ignorance is Strength".

So how are "1984" kind of like things going on today?
Quote:The government is now referring to our Social Security checks as a "Federal Benefit Payment." (Actually, I think the word the SSA uses is "Credit", but don't let that fool you.) The point the author of this email was making was those of us who paid into the system for years are lumped into the same groups receiving monies from the government who have paid nothing. In and of itself, this (the terminology tweak) is not a major deal, but it is an example on how our betters are tweaking terminology to bend the minds of us dirt people to their will.

God bless you all!
 
The world has definitely become very Orwellian. Both Animal Farm and 1984 ring only too true. Always preferred reading Zamyatin myself, but have also always liked a lot of Russian authors.

Just my opinion. But I do not find it useful to attempt to forward a discussion with the use of outright lies. The numbers are too specific and too easily checked to be simple mistakes - the author is a flat out lying bastage. I'd not give him any air time. I consider it not useful at best and more likely harmful. Too many people actually buy that crap. I want the people on my team informed with facts, not lies.

- DAA
 
Originally Posted By: OldTurtleThe original purpose of Social Security was never to supply a "Living Wage", but to supplement the variables in savings earnings, to cover necessary expenses such as health insurance, etc...

Yes, had congress and liberal welfare kept their hands off of it, it is a viable supplement to an individual saving plan, but not a replacement for one...

In earlier years, public safety, and a couple of other fields, were given the option contributing to SS or establishing their own retirement programs...Some worked out well, some not so much...

It's the congressional changeS that have screwed up many of those...For instance, a person that has worked 15-20 years in the private sector and then converts over to one of the separated fields above and retires from that can potentially lose their benefit that they would have received from SS or if they claim SS they get penalized by their retirement plan...

Case in point, a Teacher that previously worked for 20 years while obtaining a teaching degree part time and then becomes a Teacher, upon retirement loses the SS benefit in most cases...Police Officers that retire and then go to work in the private sector usually wind up losing a percentage of their pension benefit, or a percentage of their SS benefit... I amnot so sureabout that! My girlfriends mom is a Wv retired teacher, she draws $1200 at the first of the month andthen another $1400 later in the month from her teachers retirement. This i do know to be true. I was quit shocked at how well she does. My grandma who was retired through the post office does not even draw quit that much.
 
Sorry about my words running together. My space key is not working very good. Also sometimes where i keep having to fix its probs i am miss-spelling words!!
 
Originally Posted By: DAAThe world has definitely become very Orwellian. Both Animal Farm and 1984 ring only too true. Always preferred reading Zamyatin myself, but have also always liked a lot of Russian authors.

Just my opinion. But I do not find it useful to attempt to forward a discussion with the use of outright lies. The numbers are too specific and too easily checked to be simple mistakes - the author is a flat out lying bastage. I'd not give him any air time. I consider it not useful at best and more likely harmful. Too many people actually buy that crap. I want the people on my team informed with facts, not lies.

- DAA

I understand where you are coming from. I paid very little attention to the numbers. Had I thought they were an important part of the email, I may not have posted it at all.

Sadly, it seems this entire thread makes a point in and of itself. As a nation, we've come to embrace Socialist Security. We are ever more ready to accept further programs embracing communist ideals. After eight years "Obamacare" has risen from the awful idea it is to "well, maybe we should keep it." In my opinion, government has no authority to provide health care. I think a case could be made for most, if not all, government meddling in health care, but that is another topic.

Back to Socialist Security, the program is pure communist intrusion into our lives. They grab money from our paychecks and from our employers', they do what they want with it and then dole it out to some citizens on their terms. It never should have passed congress or signed into law. It never should have been "blessed" by the courts and yet it is now entrenched in our national identity.

It is yet another reason I am convinced this nation will never, ever turn back to a constitutional republic. Thus, I find myself asking, where then, does all of this lead?

God bless.
 
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Leads to a bad place, I'm afraid.

Was thinking exactly the same thing about Obamacare. People get a taste of somebody else's money through redistribution, or worse, start spending money on loans from the Chinese that their kids and grandkids will have to carry the paper on, they get that taste and they don't want to let it go no matter how much sense it makes or how morally correct it would be to cut it off.

Health care is so messed up I'm not sure there is any hope. The trajectory it's on now, almost none of us will be able to have both health care and a life by retirement age. If I live long enough and things go relatively well in the mean time, I might be able to retire in 15 years. This is my guess, not a number with anything to back it up, but I'm thinking that at the current trajectory, health insurance for my wife and I will cost about $5,000 a month by then. Maybe more.

Of course, the state already has a solution. Turn in your last vestigial illusion of liberty and dignity, become penniless and the state will "take care of you".

Grim prospects.

- DAA
 
i looked at the math and it's actually understated.

No one is saying SS is paying out what you are paying in. But that wasn't the point. It was only supposed to be enough so old people are not eating dog food. The amounts and contribution limits have gone up and up..

Look up the Galvistan Texas, their public system opted out of SS. They pay in the same, but get 3-4K a month and that comes with insurance in case of accidents and death bennefits.


If you are doubting the numbers. Open excel and try the formula for Future Value.

=FV(rate,nper,payments,0,0)
Rate=1% per the article for interest rate paid per month
nper= number of periods which 12X40= 480
Payments 375 per month


The results are $4,411,789.69 yep, 4 million
that would be $12,254.97 per month payments out starting at 65 to 95, and that assumes that you cash all out on your 65th birthday.

Hopefully it's obvious as to why the Congress raided the fund years ago. IT's because they really saw what was sitting there racking up interest and couldn't help but blow it.

I am at the max withholding, and it pizzes me off a lot when i see the terrible return.

Get rid of it, call it what it is, welfare, and be done with it.

If anything force people to invest the same amount in a IRA, with a Disability insurance plan. Let the company payments go to the workers accounts too.
 
Originally Posted By: Tbone-AZ

If you are doubting the numbers. Open excel and try the formula for Future Value.




Put me down as doubting
laugh.gif
.


Originally Posted By: Tbone-AZ

Open excel and try the formula for Future Value.

=FV(rate,nper,payments,0,0)
Rate=1% per the article for interest rate paid per month
nper= number of periods which 12X40= 480
Payments 375 per month




Any idea where a fella can get 1%, per month, compounded monthly? For 40 years? Heck, I'd take it for a month, if you know where I can get it.
laugh.gif


That's over 13% annualized.

Long term average for typical worker bee 401K, after fees (fees are the Devil), is about half that.

- DAA
 
There are things that you can invest in that return well.

it's not common, but not unheard of either.

http://bfy.tw/D0kA

I completely agree with you about the fee's.

That is why as soon as you have enough the best thing you can do is to speak to and interview a money manager. I went through several, before finding one i liked. Now he manages my investments for less than 1% and even if he gets the same return as i used to, it's fine since i am paying a lot less than the fee's i used to as well. Thankfully, so far he has done good.

 
Numbers, smumbers, I don't give a hoot. The thing is communism is was and always will be a failure. That is the road we are on and we won't be turning back. As a nation I do not see another path - we either follow the current one towards the communist ideal or we turn the nation back to a constitutional republic. Can anybody really see this nation willingly dumping social security?

Yes, there are other possibilities of what may happen but I won't try to predict the future. I will only point out the direction we are headed. If the direction turns, fine. Many of us want it - electing Trump is a sure sign of this. But resistance is strong and there is more to President Trump than any of us can see. I do not know what we will see when the curtain is pulled back.

DAA, Thank you for pointing me to Zamyatin. I never heard of him before. Strangely enough, when looking for info on him, I ran across Orwell's review of "We". He thought it was a lot like Huxley's "Brave New World", another oft referred to book. I plan on digging in when I can.

God bless
 
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