NIGHT VISION HELP?
- Thread starter smsnyder
- Start date
ATN stuff works well. I have a 3rd gen 7900 scope. I have just the scope, I do not use googles also to hunt. The reason is that I scan with my rifle on one of those Polecat monopods with the V on top, Cabela's sells them. Easy to pivot the rifle around and look for the fox, etc. When the animal comes in and you want to shoot you just flick the safety and send him to blue heaven. Why would you want to watch with googles {2 image intensifiers, which is the expensive part} and then have to switch to a third{triple the expense} to shoot????? I actually have two rifles set up with NV so a buddy can shoot too. I have a third spotting scope in case three of us go, that way everyone is looking. Its not much good to have one scope if your buddies are along, only one person sees the action while the others stand in the dark and look stupid. One of my scopes is 2nd gen, its a very high quality Litton. All U.S night vision tubes are made by Litton and they are way better than the Russian stuff but you pay for them. ATN is U.S. Here's the thing, because with night vision you are "detecting" light you can help out a 2nd gen with infrared and it looks as good as 3rd. I have an infrared filter for my Lightforce spotlight and when viewed in the 2nd gen scope it looks like someone is shining a spotlight in the field. It makes it almost too bright for the 3rd. The Army uses an Aimpoint red dot sight in front of an AN-PVS14 spotter on the M-4 so that during the day you can take off the NV and the rifle is still zeroed to the red dot. No advantage otherwise, in fact the snipers now have the AN-PVS10 which uses internal mirrors to make it a true day/night scope. One other point about 2nd vs. 3rd is the resolution. You can have higher magnification with 3rd and still see a sharp image. You are somewhat limited here with 2nd. It will still work just will appear a little more grainy. Hope this helps, good luck. Night vision definately helps fox hunting at night.
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does anyone have experience with night vision goggles and scopes. i am considering buying ATN NIGHT VISION EQUIPTMENT 3 GENERATION for varmint hunting.. how well can you see with these generation 3 goggles? do i need to buy both the goggles and the scope to work? thanks
We are not allowed to use night vision here in Pa., just in case you didn't realize that........
does anyone have experience with night vision goggles and scopes. i am considering buying ATN NIGHT VISION EQUIPTMENT 3 GENERATION for varmint hunting.. how well can you see with these generation 3 goggles? do i need to buy both the goggles and the scope to work? thanks
We are not allowed to use night vision here in Pa., just in case you didn't realize that........
Gotta agree with you there...I always heard it said that they were illegal in Pa. as well. I lived in Blair Co. for two years in the early 80's but didn't predator hunt in those days. I just read the entire Pennsylvania code {title and section} regarding "illegal/legal devices" and "hunting with a light." What I am reading says "no projected or transmitted beams on a gun or bows scope or site", which definately cancels out the use of an infrared illuminator. But, it goes on to say that hunting legally at night on foot is an exception to this. Night vision is detecting and amplifying light thats already there. You are not projecting or transmitting anything unless you have an illuminator. If what they have posted on the web is as deep as the law gets I would take it to court if I got a ticket. Seems confusing enough that I would call the game commision and ask what title and section addresses this specifically.
Msinc is correct, we cannot use "light beams" in MN too, but a nightvision scope is not a beam, it's just a scope like your daytime type.
You will have to keep your IR (infrared) illuminator off, which will somehow limit the field of view many yards but still give you night vision.
Any nightvision device is composed of 2 components, the scope and the illuminator, just keep the second off and you'll be fine.
If you think they cannot see you since it's IR....you're wrong, they have nightvision scopes also and can detect an illuminator just like you can see thorugh it....
You will have to keep your IR (infrared) illuminator off, which will somehow limit the field of view many yards but still give you night vision.
Any nightvision device is composed of 2 components, the scope and the illuminator, just keep the second off and you'll be fine.
If you think they cannot see you since it's IR....you're wrong, they have nightvision scopes also and can detect an illuminator just like you can see thorugh it....
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Gotta agree with you there...I always heard it said that they were illegal in Pa. as well. I lived in Blair Co. for two years in the early 80's but didn't predator hunt in those days. I just read the entire Pennsylvania code {title and section} regarding "illegal/legal devices" and "hunting with a light." What I am reading says "no projected or transmitted beams on a gun or bows scope or site", which definately cancels out the use of an infrared illuminator. But, it goes on to say that hunting legally at night on foot is an exception to this. Night vision is detecting and amplifying light thats already there. You are not projecting or transmitting anything unless you have an illuminator. If what they have posted on the web is as deep as the law gets I would take it to court if I got a ticket. Seems confusing enough that I would call the game commision and ask what title and section addresses this specifically.
Look further, it says something about "other electronic devices" or some such wording, and that includes night vision, I already checked with a WCO on this on the HuntingPA forum.........
Gotta agree with you there...I always heard it said that they were illegal in Pa. as well. I lived in Blair Co. for two years in the early 80's but didn't predator hunt in those days. I just read the entire Pennsylvania code {title and section} regarding "illegal/legal devices" and "hunting with a light." What I am reading says "no projected or transmitted beams on a gun or bows scope or site", which definately cancels out the use of an infrared illuminator. But, it goes on to say that hunting legally at night on foot is an exception to this. Night vision is detecting and amplifying light thats already there. You are not projecting or transmitting anything unless you have an illuminator. If what they have posted on the web is as deep as the law gets I would take it to court if I got a ticket. Seems confusing enough that I would call the game commision and ask what title and section addresses this specifically.
Look further, it says something about "other electronic devices" or some such wording, and that includes night vision, I already checked with a WCO on this on the HuntingPA forum.........
Actually most people in the military use a IR laser in conjunction with head mounted PVS-14. Mounting a 14 behind an aimpoint or eotech is less than ideal in a combat situation or hunting either, because you have to point the weapon everywhere you look. The nightvision's prolonged exposure to the aimpoint or eotech, even if the unit is turned way down on the Night Vision setting can burn the reticle image in the NVG tube. I have played with some ATN stuff, and their image quality was nothing near the quality of my PVS-14. If you are gonna buy NVG's look before you buy. Research it, and be careful because some of the dedicated night vision forums are biased to the manufacturer that host the forum. Save up and buy a nice unit. Like I have said on here before, there are a couple dealers over on AR15.com that will build you anything you want and provide you with an ITT data sheet so you know what you have got and helps with resale.
The ATN stuff I play with has the exact same Grade A U.S. Litton tube that a AN-PVS 14 has. I paid extra for it. Most ATN scopes have B grade tubes or lower but they would {as of two years ago} upgrade them for a price. They dont advertise this, I stumbled onto it in conversation with the salesman. I remember him saying it was because they never knew when they could get the grade A tubes. He said that the military has first dibs and will not accept the B grades. Dont know about the Gen II from them though, mine is a Gen III, maybe they are the only ones upgradable.
I am trying to find a camera adapter for my digital Sony so I can post pictures of the views. Many members have e-mailed with confusion, it's hard to explain but a picture is worth a thousand words. You can look into one of those shitty Russian 2nd gen tubes and wonder why anyone would pay money for it but if I shined my Lightforce with an infrared lense where you're looking you will think it just turned 3rd gen Litton. I dont know why the manufacturers dont show the differences with pictures. Like when you buy a third gen and it looks washed out on a full moon but your old second gen actually looks better. You are detecting ambient light which can vary greatly so given the circumstances any scope can look poor or fantastic but the most expensive will always be better on average.
I also believe Valv above is right when he says predators can see infrared light. "they have nightvision too" is a point I have argued before based on how I have seen them react especially to a powerful source of infrared. It dont seem to spook them much but they will always look right at the source and stare even when totally committed to the call. When you move the light off them they will look at its reflection past them on brush or trees, etc.
I am trying to find a camera adapter for my digital Sony so I can post pictures of the views. Many members have e-mailed with confusion, it's hard to explain but a picture is worth a thousand words. You can look into one of those shitty Russian 2nd gen tubes and wonder why anyone would pay money for it but if I shined my Lightforce with an infrared lense where you're looking you will think it just turned 3rd gen Litton. I dont know why the manufacturers dont show the differences with pictures. Like when you buy a third gen and it looks washed out on a full moon but your old second gen actually looks better. You are detecting ambient light which can vary greatly so given the circumstances any scope can look poor or fantastic but the most expensive will always be better on average.
I also believe Valv above is right when he says predators can see infrared light. "they have nightvision too" is a point I have argued before based on how I have seen them react especially to a powerful source of infrared. It dont seem to spook them much but they will always look right at the source and stare even when totally committed to the call. When you move the light off them they will look at its reflection past them on brush or trees, etc.
smsnyder
New member
what is the best night vision scope on the market that has illuminated crosshairs in them? i want a night vision scope at least 6 power. i want to spot animals eyes first with a handheld light force light than go to the night scope for a body shot. does that make sense? what do you suggest? i am told if i use a special infred light on the hand held spotlight i can still see through the night vision scope. is that correct?
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I dont know of any NV scopes without lighted crosshairs, thats an automatic given as they wont work without one. 6 power narrows it down as most are 4 or less. Makes no sense to me to have night vision, alert the animal with an active beam and then switch to NV for the kill???? The motive to buy NV is so you can view/kill in a passive way. You dont have any reason to carry any active spot type light, just one to walk with after the purchase of NV. You heard right that any infrared source will be detected by a NV scope. Both mine have the IR device right on them, one came with it and the other was added{it was an x military scope, they dont use it.} As far as the best goes....AN-PVS10 gets my vote but they are not available to anyone but the government.I doubt you would want it anyway at about $12,000.00. Any scope with a U.S. made 3rd gen tube will blow you away. Funny thing about night vision...every single person that has looked thru mine for the first time all said the same exact words..."god damn!!!!!"
As far as sighting them in, they all come with a day filter. You just use that and shoot during the day. They have windage and elevation turrets just like a day scope. One thing, you want a "weapons sight" not just a scope. The civilian world calls them all "scopes" in military terms they are "NOD"s for night observation device. Any other questions just fire away.
As far as sighting them in, they all come with a day filter. You just use that and shoot during the day. They have windage and elevation turrets just like a day scope. One thing, you want a "weapons sight" not just a scope. The civilian world calls them all "scopes" in military terms they are "NOD"s for night observation device. Any other questions just fire away.
I would recommend the ATN7900 with a 3rd gen tube. It works very well for me and is 6x. They do have a newer model out now that has a lower eyepiece, can't remember the model number but its only 4x so even if they had it when I bought mine I would have still got the 6x. For the money you cant go wrong, understand its still a very expensive scope. Just make sure you specify a U.S. made tube. I think they go for around $2700.00 now maybe a little higher. It comes with a very powerful little scope mounted illuminator. They all work like a regular scope in that you look in it line up the reticle and shoot, also adjust to center like any other. There are different reticle styles available but either the standard red on green crosshair or the red dot if its available are perfect. You dont want to have to look at graffitti in the scope when trying to kill. Just so you know, they come with a B grade new tube but I think you can get a B grade reconditioned or a new A grade. The difference is {besides money} the B grades will have small black spots in the field of view but they dont hurt anything. The A's have no spots. When I say small, they are like dust. I wouldn't get the recon'd tubes but I would go for the B now that I have seen one. I bought an A because it was my first one and the guy explained it to sound worse than it is. I have since gotten one with a new B grade tube and the tiny spots that the Army rejects is ridiculous. Here is my home number, catch me on weekdays after 4:30pm 301-994-9461 or during the day...work is 301-862-4111 ask them to page me, I can probably do a better job of explaining over the phone whats up with these things. They have a gen 4 out now but I haven't seen one so I cant say if its worth it.