OH NO!!!! Need help with Lyman 1200 electronic scales!

Hidalgo

Hidalgo

Well-known member
I have been throwing powder with a Lyman 1200II scale. It is doing some things that I would consider "strange"

Whenever I pull the pan from the scales, it will read anywhere from -114.9 to -115.4 /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smiliesmack.gif

This scares the crap out of me. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shocked.gif

I loaded 500 rounds of Lil Gun for the Hornet, and the cases are very near full. I would "think" that if they were varying .4-.5 grain I would have noticed it in the cases at the time. That's a LOT of powder variation in such a little case to have gone unnoticed, so I am hesitant to think that it is actually varying the charges that much.

Now, I am loading for the .204 and I can't tell by looking if there is a variance in the charges because it is so far down the case, of course.

I can calibrate per the instructions, but it still does the same things. It is throwing the charges as it should, and trickling the powder at the end as it is designed.

I have NO reason to think that it is doing something wrong, but it is VERY concerning that the readings after the pan is removed are so different. Unfortunately, I don't have a balance scale to verify the charges with at this time.

I called Lyman, and they said they "Had never heard this situation before", and are going to return my call this afternoon.

I just wondered if any of you guys have noticed this with your scales? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused1.gif

Oh yeah...they went through the cell phone / flourescent light / extension cord / air register things with me. None of them apply. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused1.gif
 
When you take the pan off the scale the reading increases. is that what your saying? Are you putting any wieght on the pan when you take hold of it with your fingers? I would want to get a mechanical beam scale just to have a spare and somthing to cross check that electonic with anyway.
 
I've not had that problem with mine either, but if a kernel of powder gets tween the load cell pad and the housing, it does really crazy things /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smiliesmack.gif, easy to fix by brushing the offending culprit out of there. As was recommended, I check mine regularly with a beam scale, always right on.

Tim
 
Let me try to clarify (after doing some more testing)...

You can throw 24.8 grains of powder, pour it into the case, re-zero the scale, and put the powder back into the pan, and it might weight 25.1, or even 24.5 /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smiliesmack.gif

Each time I remove the pan from teh scale to charge a case, the reading without the pan is different.

I noticed the following readings (in succession) while loading 5 cases, when I removed the pan & powder from the scale to charge the case...

-114.9
-115.2
-115.2
-115.4
-115.1

Now, maybe I'm crazy, or I don't understand scales, but ANY time you remove the pan, shouldn't the scale give the same reading?

I think this thing has an uncurable case of the "drifts".

NOW I WONDER WHAT I'M GOING TO DO WITH THE 200 ROUNDS THAT I LOADED YESTERDAY !!!! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mad.gif I'm hesitant to trust them after seeing what this thing is doing today. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif

EDIT to add: It seems like a shame to me to have to do it (after spending $200 on a scale!) but I'm on the way to get a set of mechanical scales to load with. I simply do NOT trust this thing anymore, and doubt that I will in the near future after it has done this erratic thing today. Lyman might just get this thing back with a VERY nasty note.
 
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My bet is that any 'negative weight' is outside the scale's designed operating range and should be discounted.

You could confirm that by setting the tare at '0' and then weigh your charges.
 
You should have a calbration weight that came with the scale instead of the powder put that weight on and see what it weighs.My RCBS will change but when I put the empty pan on it it will automatically rezero before it will let me throw a charge.
 
I have a PACT,and it works really well.I do know that it is very sensetive to air movement and temperarture.When putting the powder pan back on the patten, it takes a second or two to settle in to the correct weight.Electric lights on the same circuit, will also cause a problem at times. I sent it to the factory twice when I first got it,for adjustment,but have loaded several hundred rounds since with no problem.I always check it with the balance beam when I begin,and perodically during the loading process,and it is always where it should be.Mine seems to show the same weight each time I remove the powder pan though.Do you check it with the test weights before you start, and recalibrate if necessary?Hope you get things figgered out.
 
I have been thru 2 electronic scales now, the last one was the RCBS scale/trickler combo it took a dump on me last fall, I have a RCBS 5-0-5 beam scale, dont like it much and am looking for another option. I will never buy another electronic scale again. Lights, other electric appliances, vibrations on the bench, temperature, cell phone, reset zero every 10 minutes, light breeze if my garage door is open, half or full moon, total PITA, never again.
 
I had the Lyman 1200 and now have the RCBS Chargemaster. I have checked both against balance beams and stand alone electronic scales and they all read the same!

The negative reading you get with the pan off is unimportant but the "0" reading with the pan on is important. Buy a cheap balance beam scale off of eBay and restore your confidence.

A good idea is to keep a can of compressed air on hand to blow the scale out.

Also be sure you have the New Model of the Lyman 1200 DP if now I believe Lyman will replace it at no charge.
 
Quote:
Buy a cheap balance beam scale off of eBay and restore your confidence.



I went to Sportsman Whse and bought a balance scale. Here's the NASTY news.....

TWO out of every FIVE loads that the 1200 throws are .2 to .3 lighter than what it should be throwing. I am loading 24.8gr and 2 of 5 times it is throwing 24.6 or lighter, even though it indicates that it is throwing correctly.

Restore my CONFIDENCE? Yeah....right. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

Even worse, when I check the charge on the balance scale, and find that it is indeed light, and then put it back on the 1200, THEN it shows a correct reading. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smiliesmack.gif

This thing is outta here ASAP. I am going to get Lyman to replace it, and unless I change my mind I am going to sell the new replacement unit as soon as it comes in the door.

Why have a $225 set of scales that won't perform?

Some of the guys on here warned me about getting an electronic scale in the first place. Next time maybe I'll take heed. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused1.gif
 
I had a somewhat of the same problem the other night; first time after 2 years. I was attempting to load the 204 @ 26.5 H4895 and always re-check it on a Dillion electronic scale. When I removed the pan witness the same variance negitive readings too. The Dillion reading was 31 /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smiliesmack.gif Re-set calbration to Zero on the Lyman, loaded a few more, same higher reading on the Dillion. So used the brush and compressed air cleaned the the pan area, re-booted the Lyman, recal the load, re-set zero and it fixed itself. I really don't what happen but now checking every load on the Dillion scale to be sure it doesn't happen again.

Don't give up on it, its a excellent scale. If you have to return it to Lyman, I'm sure they make you happy.
 
The negative reading is probably because the zero was set with the pan on it. I use digital for bullets and cases, beam for powder. it is aggrivating to save up for a tool like that end be dissapointed with the performance. i bought a high dollar powder measure that works really great with powders i dont use anymore.
 
I would think the high readings you are getting - would be what the pan weighs to get a zero. When the pan is replaced, it should be zero. Hard for me to trust the elect. versions without checking them with my beam every once in a while.
 
As an update to this:

I called Lyman Thursday. They said they would call me back in a hour. It's Saturday afternoon. They haven't called me back. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif

I bought a $25 Lee Perfect Powder Measure, and a $45 Hornady Scale, and now I know how much powder I am dumping into the cases that I, my wife, and my son are shooting.

So in the end, I am using $70 worth of equipment that is replacing a $225 piece of equipment, and am much more comfortable with my loads. If the truth be known, they are much more consistent, too. It hasn't slowed me down any at all.

Guys, I gotta ask. I have heard several of you on here say "I use a beam scale to verify the electronic scale." Forgive me...but if you have to verify the thing, then why are you using it in the first place? If I gotta use the beam scales, then I'll save myself the trouble of even owning the electronics from here on. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused1.gif

Quote:
The negative reading you get with the pan off is unimportant but the "0" reading with the pan on is important.



Sam, it is important! After doing some research, the scale (after calibration) should read -114.9 when the pan is removed. The pan weighs 114.9gr and if zeroed with the pan in place, the reading will be a negative figure of the pan weight without it. My scales are reading various figures without the pan, and that caused me to investigate them for accuracy. I have found that they are NOT accurate, with or without the pan. I can calibrate, zero, calibrate, and zero some more, and they still "drift" to and fro at random. Bottom line is...if your scales are reading various figures without the pan, then they will likely read various figures with the pan or with the pan and a charge of powder. If your scales are reading inconsistently in ANY manner or mode, they shouldn't be trusted.

As an example of why I am so upset, I poured the same charge onto the Lyman scales four times. They read: 24.8 , 25.1 , 24.6 , 24.7 Now, what would YOU do? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mad.gif
 
I use a PACT scale,and an RCBS uniflow powder measure,and they are both very consistent.Out of 100 rounds,I may check 2 or 3 charges on my beam scale,just for my own peace of mind.I have used the digital long enough that I trust it,but mine is sensitive to air movement, temperature and such,that it just helps me to double check things now and then.
I misunderstood your original post,and did'nt realize that you were using a dispenser/scale combo.The variations you are getting,are cause for concern.I sent my scale back to PACT twice,when I first got it,and have had no trouble since,and I have used it on several hundred rounds since with no problem.
The LEE powder measure, is a very good product for the money,I used one when I was getting started,and it worked very well.I really like my digital scale, and would hate to load without it now,it lets me know exactly what my charge is each time.
Timewise, you can load as fast with a beam scale,so I guess it is whatever you feel comfortable with.Good hunting.dogcaller,
 
It is perfectly normal for ANY scale to read a negative value AFTER the pan is removed from a calibrated and zeroed scale, The negative weight indicated is actually the pan weight with the fractional tenths zeroed out. The same with a balance scale. Take the pan off and the scale clunks upward.
There's a possibilty the scale has some particulates blocking the free motion. Also the transducer may be crappy.
Send it back to Lyman with a nice letter why you want a replacement. I've gotten some real crappy stuff from Lyman like the case length gauge. Sent it back and they sent another just as bad. These were all measured with a lab digital micrometer. Invest in a set of RCBS calibrated weights. They come with a pretty good assortment of weights. This will remove all doubts as to the repeatibility of the Lyman unit.
Frankie B.
 
Quote:
It is perfectly normal for ANY scale to read a negative value AFTER the pan is removed from a calibrated and zeroed scale, The negative weight indicated is actually the pan weight with the fractional tenths zeroed out. The same with a balance scale. Take the pan off and the scale clunks upward.



I'm not debating that point. If you'll read my last post again, you'll see that I said that the -114.9 reading without the pan was because the pan weighs 114.9gr.. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused1.gif

My complaint is that it doesn't read ANY weight consistently. Pan off, pan on, powder in, powder off, it doesn't matter. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused1.gif
 
If you trust your beam scales then that is what you should use. Most of the electronic powder scales I have seen all look to be the same design, but different colors. Changing brand doesnt mean a different scale. 225 bucks is hard to swallow though.
 
My Lyman has worked fine, and yes, I do verify it with my old RCBS beam scale every now and again.

Its one of those deals though, if you don't trust it get rid of it, just don't make this a "Bashing Thread".

Every manufacturer has a problem now and then, get what you can out of them and move along with your life.

Clayman
 
Quote:
My Lyman has worked fine, and yes, I do verify it with my old RCBS beam scale every now and again.

Its one of those deals though, if you don't trust it get rid of it, just don't make this a "Bashing Thread".

Every manufacturer has a problem now and then, get what you can out of them and move along with your life.

Clayman



yeahthat.gif
I'm very happy with mine too, wouldn't switch back if you paid me, it beats the heck out of using a beam scale IMO. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grinning-smiley-003.gif
 


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