ok guys, WSM or RSAUM?

went and measured about 20 different varieties of wsm ammo, it appears in Pointed soft points, there will be no issue, in
270 and 7mm there appeared to be no issue in ballistic tips, in the 300 however there appeared to be more variance in the ammo of up to 0.025 in the different factory ammo i checked, so the 300 will have to go through quite a bit of testing, however the 270 and 7mm wsm i am confident will work, as long as the cases continue not to have problems feeding.
 
It is sr25 based, i can only give a ball park figure, but probably looking close to 800-900 for the full new MKI package. Stay tuned to find out what that includes when we release the GEN2 line up.
 
If you're using a typical AR 7.62 class of magazine body, spec'd for 2.80 COL, to hold the rounds, you have to ask yourself how much you want to compromise performance?

Looking at the Hodgdon reloading page, the maximum COL for the big three .300 short magnums is like this:

.300 WSM = 2.86
.300 SAUM = 2.825
.300 RCM = 2.83

All have loadings that exceed the available length as a result of the magazine limitation, so all will be limited on some way to which bullets you can load them with. If you have to seat the bullets deeper in the case to accommodate the magazine limitations, you end up trading powder space for bullet and of equal concern is you will wind up seating some bullet ogives benneath the mouth to get them to fit. Neither is desirable. Perhaps the manufacturer of the individual uppers has a modified magazine to meet the needs of their particular caliber. Otherwise, all of them will be a compromise, with the .300 WSM representing the most compromise.

I mention this because I'm still recovering from "buyers remorse" from earlier this spring when I bought an Olympic .300 OSSM. A great concept cartridge designed to utilize the WSSM family brass, necked up to 30 caliber. All that fitting in an even more restrictive AR15 magazine. While the caliber easily delivered Hot .30-06 / Light .300 Win Mag performance, there were only a few bullets you could achieve it with. It threw 150gr flat base bullets around 3025 fps without excessive pressure signs, but as either the bullet weight went up or the BC (long/boattailed), you had to trade powder space due to the 2.26 COL magazine limitation. By the time you got up to a 180gr bullet, you were down to .308 performance for lack of powder. Still a pretty cool job for an AR15 based platform. Of greater concern was the fact that in order to use many of the bullets associated with long range shooting, their ogive was below the case mouth, so you had to be careful with any crimp you applied as well. c_bass16 has a wonderful mod to allow the bullet tips to stick out the front of the magazine and in single stack calibers, it worked great, without exposing the inside of the magazine to too much contamination. I'm not sure the .308 caliber magazines all have architecture to allow a similar mod. I know my LAR-8, which uses FAL mags, is not conducive to having a slit in the front. Other platforms may be more tolerant to that mod. I eventually sold my .300 OSSM and went with an AR 7.62 platform. Olympic recently released a proprietary lower with a slightly longer COL magazine for their WSSM/OSSM uppers, but since you're giving up the universality of the AR15 platform, you might as well just buy an AR 7.62 platform IMHO. The .300 OSSM sure turned heads at the range. Utilizing a Miculek style muzzle brake, it usually guaranteed you would have a vacant shooting position on either side of you. Brass prep was a major PITA. Sorry to digress...

Hoot
 
I really think Winchester did not market the WSSM correctly as they are a great compromise cartridge for the crowd that the gun community is trying to get involved, cause us middle aged guys with over 30 guns (known as Churners) are getting old. That is youth and lady shooters. The 24 or 25 WSSM is a nice light recoiling cartridge that is very capable of killing game and a 7mm or 30 cal version like the 30 OSSM is a great platform (in my opinion) for these shooters. Of course Oly makes AR's but in a bolt it would be great...
 
i will say that i havent read all the previous posts, so if i say something stupid you have my apologies.

i bought a second ar10 last year, the intent was to rebarrel it to something VERY flat shooting. it still sits in the safe with no project in sight. what i had finally settled on was a 6.5-300saum, at that point i got busy with other things.
ideally i would like a 6.5mm in a larger case capacity to get something fast and flat.
 
KIES...
so what do we have going on??? 7mm SAUM, 338NM??? i am ready to roll with something along these lines in the AR platform!!! i can get some great footage of some ELR shooting... as long as the barrels are threaded for my Ti suppressors!!!
 
If money was not a factor, given my previous post, I'd consider going with the 6.5 WSSM chambered into an AR 7.62 barrel blank. Though the AR 7.62 would accommodate longer case parent cartridges, you would still wind up being hindered by the magazine COL once you picked a bullet who's geometry favored long range shooting.

With the WSSM case, you would be able to seat bullets reaching out as far as 1.12 inches beyond the case mouth and not run into the front of the magazine. Something that can not be accomplished within the confines of an AR15 magazine. The 25 WSSM necked up to 30 caliber can toss a 150gr bullet at 3k fps. Imagine what you could toss a 140gr 6.5 bullet at? Remember, there will be plenty of room for max powder charges since you will not have to seat the bullets so deep.

You would have to pick up a DPMS 300 SAUM upper to get the bigger bolt face and then re-barrel it. I'm guessing DPMS might sell you just the SAUM BCA, but I do not know that for sure. It's a lot of effort to bring a hot 6.5 to the shooting line in an AR 7.62 platform, but definitely do-able. Necking .256 WSSM cases up to .264 would be a cakewalk. You wouldn't even need to anneal them. The WSSM is still a very efficient case, regardless of the caliber.

Just something to consider...

Hoot
 
Originally Posted By: ShootenHoot
You would have to pick up a DPMS 300 SAUM upper to get the bigger bolt face and then re-barrel it. I'm guessing DPMS might sell you just the SAUM BCA, but I do not know that for sure.

As someone who's tried to buy spare parts for my DPMS 300 Saum, DPMS isn't selling. If it breaks they have parts to fix them, but they won't sell the parts unless one breaks. At least that's what they tell me.

And I really like that big AR, wish it had a couple more inches of barrel, but man it shoots and is a lot of fun. If Kies comes out with a 7 Saum, that would be too cool. I hope they'd offer different configurations, like a choice of barrel lengths and weights. I think the Saum is the cartridge to use, it's a little shorter and I think better brass. JMO
 
It is going to be the wsm, starting out with the 7mm wsm for ultra flat shooting and long distance (1000 + yards) performance on mid sized game as well as being a more then capable large (bear) game caliber for closer work (300 yard area). Things are moving along in this project it just takes time,
the initial calibers we intend on releasing are-
220 swift, 7mm wsm, 243, 7-08 and 308

Also even though this is the AR forum I would like to say, we will be releasing a bolt action family this year, I cant say when for sure, but it will be this year.
 
Originally Posted By: Kies_firearmsIt is going to be the wsm, starting out with the 7mm wsm for ultra flat shooting and long distance (1000 + yards) performance on mid sized game as well as being a more then capable large (bear) game caliber for closer work (300 yard area). Things are moving along in this project it just takes time,
the initial calibers we intend on releasing are-
220 swift, 7mm wsm, 243, 7-08 and 308

Also even though this is the AR forum I would like to say, we will be releasing a bolt action family this year, I cant say when for sure, but it will be this year.


Alright, I'll bite, what can you tell us about the bolt action type rifle that will be released this year?
 
It will fit in a laptop case. Starting out with short actions, but depending on sales may also do a long action version, and we are working on getting it to work with 223 length ammo as well.
We are looking at a under (well under) $2000 retail price point.
 
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yes, they are for the sr25 pattern, We kind of have to stick to one or the other, so we wont be doing any armalite stuff at least at this time, however we may make some armalite thread barrel nuts for our handguards that folks can order if they like.
 
Originally Posted By: Kies_firearmsrifling rates we are planning on
243 1 in 9
7mm 1 in 9.5
30 cal 1 in 10

If I could suggest maybe going 1-8 with the 243 so you can shoot the 115 dtac. 1-7.7 would be optimal though. If you haven't looked into this combo yet you guys should. It will shoot flatter then those WSM's out to 1k. My buddies was 6.5 mils to 1k (bolt gun 26" barrel).
 
Originally Posted By: Kies_firearmsyes, they are for the sr25 pattern, We kind of have to stick to one or the other, so we wont be doing any armalite stuff at least at this time, however we may make some armalite thread barrel nuts for our handguards that folks can order if they like.

I realize it is small potatoes as shows go, but will you guys have a table at the armory in Stillwater for the Crocodile shows? I'd love to stop by and look over your work if you go there.

PS: Always nice to know when a local entity is around. Our paths will definitely cross.

Hoot
 
Hoot, I have fooled around at those little shows, but not in a while, I used to do the MWCA shows but have not had time for them in a long while. If you decide there is something you could use, I can always set up a time you can swing by the Stillwater office, the actual work area is closed off to visitors for liability and confidentiality purposes. It is where we do prototyping and assembly work, all our in house manufacturing is done at the Kies Mfg. facility up north, and that one is closed to the public totally.

We were previously un able to have any visitors in there due to some of the work, and some agreements with the town, but after a few talks, we got it worked out as long as there are not a bunch of customers all coming in at the same time it should be ok.
 
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