Once Fired Brass

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Shynloco

New member
Today I bought 100 "once fired" .308 Winchester casings at a local Gun Show. The casings were very clean and good looking. Upon running a few of these casings through the full sizing die process, guess what...the bolt on my .308 wouldn't even come close to closing. I adjusted my Redding Die several times to no avail. So I whipped out my Lee Press and Lee dies and tried again. Same results. When I compared these casing to other I'd had previously fired in my rifle, I noted that the angle on the shoulders just below the neck were different. I then measured both casings and they were exactly the same length. So gents, can I correct or change the angle on the newly purchased casings so my rifle will like these casings, or did I just waste my money on somebody else "once fired" brass?
 
Your dies should be able to bump the shoulder back. If you resize them and the brass keeps springing back you will likely need to anneal the necks. Before wasting any additional time on the brass I would give it the paperclip test to feel for any case separation rings in the brass. If the brass passes the paperclip test try adjusting your die down a little further and try it in your case gauge again, if you can't get it to go into your case gage before you buckle your shoulder resizing you need to anneal the necks
 
shy & loco....if the shoulder angles are visually diff,then u got sum improved cases...the 308 family hav 20deg shoulders...if these are in fact "imp", then the body length will be longer more than likely...lay a factory case alongside ur "show" case and note any diff's...if the body length is longer & the shoulder angle is sharper, then try'n to bump the shoulder back will usually result in a collapsed case...seller either didn't know or took ya....and of course the show is over...
 
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Yep, I think you're right...the show is over. I tried a few things but have never annealed anything. After looking at some reference material and reading suggestions on curing this ailment, I believe these casings, are in fact, AI. Since I have not annealed a casing before, I can't image doing it to 100 rds. I only spent $18 for the bag of casings which should have alerted me to something that was out of the ordinary. SO my daily reloading lesson cost me $18, one bruised finger when my hand slipped off the Rockchucker Press arm and the learning experience not to buy somebody else's expended casings no matter how pretty or caliber. I'll just stick to new casings from Midway or similar suppliers.

But thx to everybody for their input.
 
Oh one thing I forgot to ask, anybody have use for 100 "Once Fired" brass in .308 Caliber that is suspected of being AI? Send me a PI email with a mailing address and they're urs. I About three of the casings have been run through a standard .308 die, but I suspect even these can be rehabilitated. I hate storing unusable stuff.
 
You're looking at it all wrong, you don't need to sell the brass you now need to purchase a new gun to fit the brass
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SnL...just keep'em til that particuler sponsored show returns & approach that vendor (maybe when a crowd is at his table) and see if he'll make it rite...is bag labeled 308?...if so,bring bag&cases to show...you can always express discontent to show's sponsor...
or you can use'em as BR wildcat cases with large rifle primers.
 
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Originally Posted By: TURBO6046You're looking at it all wrong, you don't need to sell the brass you now need to purchase a new gun to fit the brass
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My feelings exactly!
 
Quote:What I love most about your response is you guys are serious!


If you ask about gun safes, they'll recommend buying a big one.
Now you see why.
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Originally Posted By: ShynlocoI adjusted my Redding Die several times to no avail.

Just a quick question here; how did you adjust the full length sizing die?
If it was adjusted correctly, your problen should have been solved..
 
To answer your question, I first full length sized using Redding Dies in my Rockcucker and the setup was the same as I loaded for new brass just last week. When I discovered that the casings wouldn't even come close to being able to close the bolt, I tried running the dies down another 2+ full turns. When that didn't work I switched to my Lee Press and Dies and repeated the process, including going down 2+ turns with the same results. After looking up some reference material, plus considered all the comments made by others, these casings must be "Improved" and darn things useless to me. But thx for asking anyways.
 
I don't mean to beat this subject to death, but you may have won the award for getting the closest to curing the problem. And no I couldn't get any cure that I knew how to do, to make the casings work. But I just happening to be reading in Bill Chevalier's ABC's of Reloading (8th Ed) on page 152, Bill writes about his belief to Full Size all his brass and not just neck size. He wrote he'd purchased a Savage .308 that was chambered in Winchester .308 and had another make in .308 also. He reloaded his brass and headed out to go shootin with both weapons only to discover some of his neck sized casing wouldn't chamber in both weapons. He writes, turned out there was enough difference in the chambers that the shoulders of my cases has been fire-formed to work in the other gun." In short, this sounds exactly to be my problem and unless I go as far an you suggested by annealing all the casings, it ain't gonna work no matter what I do.
SO CUDOs to you my friend for being "spot on!"
 
i believe ur misunderstanding what ur reading...you stated that you full length sized these cases...that nullifys the example expressed in the book cause THOSE cases were ONLY neck sized...after full length sizing the author's cases then worked fine...you have already done that...since you stated the shoulder angles are visibly diif then the angle has to be greater than 20deg (saami for 308)...also,annealing will not help in this prob if case body is longer & shoulder angle is diff...annealing is for necks primarily;not for the body-though the shoulder area is affected by the heat.
 
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"Ackley Improved" is a term thats widely accepted as meaning minimum body taper with a 40deg shoulder...anything less is just "improved"...it could mean a shorter neck with a longer body or a 22deg shoulder or 28deg or 36.5deg shoulder...whatever the shooter determines is an "improvement" over the orginal case...i stated "improved" in the discussion because you stated the shoulder angles were visibly diff...
 
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I guess I don't understand how you were full length sizing before, but managed to run your dies down another 2 turns and not have them bottom out.
2 turns on a 7/8 - 14 die is .143 in.
If you were actually full-length sizing before (bumping the shoulder back), you're now bumping it back .143+ ?
The entire shoulder on a sized .308 Win. is only .303.

You should be collapsing the shoulder right into the case body by pushing it back that much.

Or did I read that all wrong?
 
Originally Posted By: ShynlocoTo answer your question, I first full length sized using Redding Dies in my Rockcucker and the setup was the same as I loaded for new brass just last week. When I discovered that the casings wouldn't even come close to being able to close the bolt, I tried running the dies down another 2+ full turns. When that didn't work I switched to my Lee Press and Dies and repeated the process, including going down 2+ turns with the same results. After looking up some reference material, plus considered all the comments made by others, these casings must be "Improved" and darn things useless to me. But thx for asking anyways.

To full length size brass, you need to adjust the die so it touches the top of the shell holder when the ram is in the full up position. Then, lower the ram, and turn the die down an additional 1/8 turn. Then, lock the die in place, and size cases.
 
Ok guys. I really do appreciate all the comments about my post and apparently I didn't explain myself enough. First Chapped Lips is correct in my reference to the Neck Sizing commentary in the ABC's of reloading. Secondly as I indicated originally and could have said it better perhaps, I did set the Redding Die up for Full Length Resizing according to the written instructions. I ULTIMATELY ran the die down, through progressions of 1/8" turns to 2+ turns. I checked the casing each time and still the angle of the shoulders and the height of the bell was noticably different from my known "good".308 casing. That condition never changed throughout the entire process which I ran through using first my RCBS Rockchucker using Redding Dies and then a second try using my Lee Turret Press with Lee Dies. I tried four separate "Once Fired" casings and each time the same result...the bolt wouldn't even come close to closing. I even almost had the bolt jamming on two occasions. Throughout each attempt, that noticeable different in the angle of the shoulder, the length of the neck and the same measure OAL of the known casing and the "once fired" casing never changed. So according to the comments preceding this one, I've been led to believe, plus my own visual comparison that what I bought at the gun show were "Improved" casings and I won't be able to get them to work even by attempting to anneal them which I would not have done. I hope I've explained myself adequately this time because the only other thing I can imagine doing, is mailing each of you one of the "Once Fired" casings for you examination and diagnosis, which I'd gladly do so you could see the casing firsthand.
Make no mistake guys, I really do appreciate all the input Anytime I run across a problem, I double check and try to compare with something that has worked in the past without a hitch. Guess perhaps I've overkilled this one and discussion for sure. My apologies to all of you for any confusion I may have stated.
 
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